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I wasn't sure how I felt about the Kings run but now I'm ecstatic

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Old
06-12-2012, 04:12 PM
  #76
JABEE
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Originally Posted by PhillyFlying View Post
all this proves is that the trades finally helped us beat the penguins on a consistent basis.

this team is well suited for run-and-gun hockey. they might even be the best in the league at it, but that's not what wins championships. defensively we took a huge step back in dealing richards and carter. giroux will continue to develop into a two-way forward but he's not quite there yet. read and couturier showed insane promise this year, but they were just rookies. we're just gonna have to be patient, something philadelphia's sports fans are not known for.

if you honestly believe that richards and carter were bad for this team and if that helps you sleep at night, that's fine. at the end of the day, they're stanley cup champions and they did it without the flyers. to me, that sucks. it should've happened here, and it could've.

i like our new team. i just hope our fans and our GM can be patient this time around.
I think Giroux, Couturier, and a full-season of Schenn at center, will show a great improvement among the defensive efficiency of the forwards. The Flyers got good value in return for Carter and Richards.

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06-12-2012, 04:34 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by JABEE View Post
I think Giroux, Couturier, and a full-season of Schenn at center, will show a great improvement among the defensive efficiency of the forwards. The Flyers got good value in return for Carter and Richards.
They got good value, but did they get better? I honestly don't know, which is why I'm asking. They did gut the defense out of the center position.

Which center group is better? Which one is stronger defensively? (Two different questions entirely, I realize). Maybe group will be better than the other over time. Perhaps timing is the way to look at it. Don't think it made us better this year.

Roo-Richards-Cooter-Talbot (strong defensively)

vs

Roo-Cooter-Schenn-Talbot (not as much)

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Old
06-12-2012, 04:42 PM
  #78
CharlieGirl
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Originally Posted by JABEE View Post
I think Giroux, Couturier, and a full-season of Schenn at center, will show a great improvement among the defensive efficiency of the forwards. The Flyers got good value in return for Carter and Richards.
Couturier is stellar defensively. Shockingly good for an 18 year old kid, for that matter. Schenn isn't at that level but may become so. Giroux is not good defensively - not by a long shot. Can he improve? Yes. Will he? Who knows?

The Flyers got a good return if the Flyers are able to resign all four players to contracts that will fit under the cap, and if the Flyers are able to address some of the other deficiencies up and down the lineup. HOWEVER, before any of that happens, the defense will need to be rebuilt because the top 2 defensemen are old and/or damaged, perhaps beyond repair. That is where my frustration lies. By the time the forwards are ready and able to compete, the defense will not be, and we have no freakin' clue which Bryz we're going to see next year. Hopefully it's the guy we saw in March.

I hate that Richards isn't a Flyer and I doubt that will ever change. But I really hate that the team took a step back again.

I am lucky - I saw the Flyers win a Cup. I saw them win two. But it's been a very long time and there is a generation of Flyers fans who have no idea what that feels like, and the chances of all of us celebrating another one in the near future are slim.

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06-12-2012, 05:20 PM
  #79
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Can't say that I'm ecstatic in any way. Watching Richie, Carter and Gagne (especially the 1st and the 3rd) made me sad and glad at the same time. Glad that they won the Stanley Cup, but sad that they won it on the wrong team. I will always feel that way, but it's time to move on now. Even that it hurts and bothers me at the moment.

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06-12-2012, 05:29 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Go For It View Post
No. There was a sizable contingent of fans who never liked the trades in the first place.
the richards trade was straight up shocking especially considering he was the captain but everyone knew that carter was gone anyway and there wasn't a "sizable" contingent complaining about that move. still worth every penny considering couturier is awesome. those trades had to happen for us to grow. we had our chance with that team in 2010. we didn't do it. now its time for this new version to make a serious run. what the kings did was add "complimentary" players to their strong core. those same players were our core. it was kind of a weak core. we now have a great core. we just need some more complimentary players ourselves. i love lavi but i wonder if we need to make a move. there's no way around the fact that you need strong defensive play.

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06-12-2012, 05:45 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by funghoul View Post
the richards trade was straight up shocking especially considering he was the captain but everyone knew that carter was gone anyway and there wasn't a "sizable" contingent complaining about that move. still worth every penny considering couturier is awesome. those trades had to happen for us to grow. we had our chance with that team in 2010. we didn't do it. now its time for this new version to make a serious run. what the kings did was add "complimentary" players to their strong core. those same players were our core. it was kind of a weak core. we now have a great core. we just need some more complimentary players ourselves. i love lavi but i wonder if we need to make a move. there's no way around the fact that you need strong defensive play.
In what universe is Pronger, Timonen, Richards, Carter, Giroux, Briere and Gagne a weak core? Because that's what we had.

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Old
06-12-2012, 06:35 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
In what universe is Pronger, Timonen, Richards, Carter, Giroux, Briere and Gagne a weak core? Because that's what we had.
Not disagreeing with you, but that core got destroyed by Boston in 2011

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06-12-2012, 06:56 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Schenn10 View Post
Not disagreeing with you, but that core got destroyed by Boston in 2011
The year after going to the Finals.

That happens to almost any team, unless you have a generational talent on your team (Gretzky or Crosby)

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06-12-2012, 07:16 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Schenn10 View Post
Not disagreeing with you, but that core got destroyed by Boston in 2011
Richards - wrist injury
Carter - knee injury
Pronger - back injury


On top of that they had a rookie goalie which caused Lavi to panic and kick off the goaltending carousel.

Was the problem the core or was the problem their injuries and goaltending?

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06-12-2012, 07:19 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by FlyersMania2 View Post
Fun Lupul tweet:


Sounds like a bitter ex
More like a bitter troll..so what has he proven thus far since we traded him...that he's a medical basket case and can't help hapless Toronto win a cup?

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06-12-2012, 08:00 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Coutsiephan View Post
More like a bitter troll..so what has he proven thus far since we traded him...that he's a medical basket case and can't help hapless Toronto win a cup?
66 games played, 25 goals, 42 assists for 67 points or just slightly over a PPG. Masterton nominee.

Any other questions?

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06-12-2012, 08:16 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
66 games played, 25 goals, 42 assists for 67 points or just slightly over a PPG. Masterton nominee.

Any other questions?
I think 66 games played still puts him under the "medical basketcase" category.

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06-12-2012, 08:47 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by DownieFaceSoftener View Post
Happy for a few ex-Flyers.

... but let's be clear: They are not the Flyers.

As a fan, you did not win a Cup through osmosis.
That's a funny double-standard, don't you think? As if the Flyers' organization winning the Stanley Cup is any more relevant to the person than a favorite player (or players).

----------

Honestly, I can't stand this. Lindros cried for our Flyers. Laperriere, Richards, and Primeau all cried. I can't remember the last time I've seen a single owner lament the fans' fortunes, and this includes the owners that have played a roll in relocating a franchise. Why should anyone be so blindly dedicated to a single team?

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Originally Posted by Coutsiephan View Post
More like a bitter troll..so what has he proven thus far since we traded him...that he's a medical basket case and can't help hapless Toronto win a cup?
Jesus Christ, what a bunch of ingrates...

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06-12-2012, 08:55 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
Couturier is stellar defensively. Shockingly good for an 18 year old kid, for that matter. Schenn isn't at that level but may become so. Giroux is not good defensively - not by a long shot. Can he improve? Yes. Will he? Who knows?

The Flyers got a good return if the Flyers are able to resign all four players to contracts that will fit under the cap, and if the Flyers are able to address some of the other deficiencies up and down the lineup. HOWEVER, before any of that happens, the defense will need to be rebuilt because the top 2 defensemen are old and/or damaged, perhaps beyond repair. That is where my frustration lies. By the time the forwards are ready and able to compete, the defense will not be, and we have no freakin' clue which Bryz we're going to see next year. Hopefully it's the guy we saw in March.

I hate that Richards isn't a Flyer and I doubt that will ever change. But I really hate that the team took a step back again.

I am lucky - I saw the Flyers win a Cup. I saw them win two. But it's been a very long time and there is a generation of Flyers fans who have no idea what that feels like, and the chances of all of us celebrating another one in the near future are slim.
My feelings precisely

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Old
06-12-2012, 09:17 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Clown Baby View Post
That's a funny double-standard, don't you think? As if the Flyers' organization winning the Stanley Cup is any more relevant to the person than a favorite player (or players).

----------

Honestly, I can't stand this. Lindros cried for our Flyers. Laperriere, Richards, and Primeau all cried. I can't remember the last time I've seen a single owner lament the fans' fortunes, and this includes the owners that have played a roll in relocating a franchise. Why should anyone be so blindly dedicated to a single team?

Jesus Christ, what a bunch of ingrates...
I picture you with a small turd next to your upturned nose as you say this.....we are not worthy of your wisdom.....

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Old
06-12-2012, 09:31 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by DownieFaceSoftener View Post
They got good value, but did they get better? I honestly don't know, which is why I'm asking. They did gut the defense out of the center position.

Which center group is better? Which one is stronger defensively? (Two different questions entirely, I realize). Maybe group will be better than the other over time. Perhaps timing is the way to look at it. Don't think it made us better this year.

Roo-Richards-Cooter-Talbot (strong defensively)

vs

Roo-Cooter-Schenn-Talbot (not as much)
It should be expected that in the short term we would fall back some and LA would get better. Thats why they would do this....they basically got Schenn in 4+ years from now for Simmonds.

And we increased our window by getting young talent and cheaper cap hits for some going back this year. Schenn may never develop. Thats the danger for us.

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06-12-2012, 10:19 PM
  #92
zarley zelepukin
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I don't really think we increased our window. Maybe slightly. Mostly I think we just moved our window back a couple years. Plus the centerpieces we got back may never be as good as the ones we dealt. And even if they are, the GM will still have work to do in other areas.

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06-12-2012, 10:37 PM
  #93
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06-12-2012, 10:52 PM
  #94
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Awsome, i was hoping to see a video of him last night, but great to see in a picture none the less.

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06-12-2012, 10:56 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by zarley zelepukin View Post
Plus the centerpieces we got back may never be as good as the ones we dealt.
Umm...I can't say I agree with you.

Schenn has MUCH more upside than Richards, Couturier didn't look short of talent either, he was setting up 4th liners who couldn't finish quite often.

I wouldn't be shocked if they end up being 60 point guys minimum.

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06-13-2012, 12:42 PM
  #96
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Schenn has MUCH more upside than Richards
Not sure about that one. Richards is a fantastic 2-way center who is basically good (even if not elite) at everything. I would argue that its much harder to find and develope elite 2-way forwards than guys who are good offensively.

So far from what I've seen, nothing has sold me on the idea that Brayden Schenn is some other worldly talent just waiting to explode. Is he a nice player? Sure, especially considering how young he is, but lots of players have put up insane numbers in Juniors and outside of the NHL only to become simply "good" players in the NHL.

You can't measure Richard's leadership, his will, and all of the other intangibles he brings to the table. He's a quiet guy so it often flies under the radar, but he has a significant impact in almost every game he dresses for.

If you're trying to sell me on Schenn one day being that kind of heart-and-soul player brimming with intangibles, then I really hope you're right. Unfortunately experience shows that guys like that are really hard to come by. Do I think Schenn will be a good player? Yes I do, I think he will be a nice 2nd line type guy who can give you 25 goals and 70ish points a season, but I don't know if I expect him to measure up to what Richy was for this franchise.


Last edited by Beef Invictus: 06-13-2012 at 12:43 PM. Reason: fixing quote
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Old
06-13-2012, 12:55 PM
  #97
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You can't measure Richard's leadership, his will, and all of the other intangibles he brings to the table. He's a quiet guy so it often flies under the radar, but he has a significant impact in almost every game he dresses for.
This exemplifies Richards. It's interesting - he had a coach who told him to do something on every shift to help the team, whether it be a shot block, a goal, a hit, a good pass, a shot on net - no matter what, do one thing every shift to help your team. He took it to heart and it helped make him the player he is today.

Bet Deboer wishes he had told him something different...

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06-13-2012, 01:25 PM
  #98
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I had no problem with the Kings until their fans started acting like a**holes.

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06-13-2012, 01:46 PM
  #99
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I had no problem with the Kings until their fans started acting like a**holes.
Really? I've found that they're one of the best groups around here.

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06-13-2012, 01:55 PM
  #100
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Not sure about that one. Richards is a fantastic 2-way center who is basically good (even if not elite) at everything. I would argue that its much harder to find and develope elite 2-way forwards than guys who are good offensively.

So far from what I've seen, nothing has sold me on the idea that Brayden Schenn is some other worldly talent just waiting to explode. Is he a nice player? Sure, especially considering how young he is, but lots of players have put up insane numbers in Juniors and outside of the NHL only to become simply "good" players in the NHL.

You can't measure Richard's leadership, his will, and all of the other intangibles he brings to the table. He's a quiet guy so it often flies under the radar, but he has a significant impact in almost every game he dresses for.

If you're trying to sell me on Schenn one day being that kind of heart-and-soul player brimming with intangibles, then I really hope you're right. Unfortunately experience shows that guys like that are really hard to come by. Do I think Schenn will be a good player? Yes I do, I think he will be a nice 2nd line type guy who can give you 25 goals and 70ish points a season, but I don't know if I expect him to measure up to what Richy was for this franchise.
Everyone uses Richards to compare him too, they are similar in stature. Schenn isn't some lollygagger out there. He's been described as a leader as well.

Schenn has better hands and skates better than MR. MR was thought to be a 3rd line C with intangibles coming out. He's out paced that...but he doesn't walk on water...
Schenn has the <potential> to be a first line center...obviously he has to work to get to that level. He's also been a tourney mvp before...
He looked pretty impressive to me as a 20 yr old in the POs for us...

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