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Michalek, Martin, Lovejoy

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Old
06-13-2012, 01:16 PM
  #26
Pitt's Best #87 #66
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Martin has one terrible year after many solid ones and now he is medicore-bad player....

Not to mention, it was in a year where no Pens defenseman looked good for long periods of time.

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06-13-2012, 01:26 PM
  #27
WarriorofTime
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Why are Pens fans so eager to get rid of Martin if he isn't on a bad contract?

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Old
06-13-2012, 01:30 PM
  #28
Mr Jiggyfly
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Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
Why are Pens fans so eager to get rid of Martin if he isn't on a bad contract?
Strait
Bortuzzo
Despres
Morrow

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06-13-2012, 01:44 PM
  #29
Mister Hockey
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Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
Why are Pens fans so eager to get rid of Martin if he isn't on a bad contract?
The Pens have too many d-men. Martin did have an off year, but not as bad as many have made it sound. The Pens need to move someone to open cap space and for players they would loose.


Last edited by Mister Hockey: 06-13-2012 at 02:09 PM.
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Old
06-13-2012, 01:48 PM
  #30
Flat Stanley
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Didn't you guys hear, Paul Martin is the Scott Gomez of defensemen.


Last edited by Flat Stanley: 06-13-2012 at 02:10 PM.
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Old
06-13-2012, 02:06 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
Why are Pens fans so eager to get rid of Martin if he isn't on a bad contract?
The Pens have quite a few youngsters ready for NHL action, and thus, his money can be better spent to fill holes in the lineup that they don't necessarily have cheap options to fill them with.

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Old
06-13-2012, 02:06 PM
  #32
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a 2nd and one of our many wingers that you can choose from. Or maybe Niskanen for Nino?
2nd and grabner and nino for michalek+niskanen (resigned) + mid pick?

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06-13-2012, 02:09 PM
  #33
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Michalek for 2nd. Maybe a small-time prospect that the Pens are interested in as well.

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06-13-2012, 02:15 PM
  #34
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Michalek would be everything Nick Leddy needs in a partner.

What would the Pens be looking for from the Hawks?

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Old
06-13-2012, 02:21 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Blitzburgh87 View Post
Exactly. People act like he's Steve Gomez or something.
Who is Steve Gomez? Must be really bad.

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Old
06-13-2012, 02:26 PM
  #36
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Who is Steve Gomez? Must be really bad.
Whoever he is, he has more value than Scott.

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06-13-2012, 03:00 PM
  #37
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Martin is not the same as Gomez. Not even close.

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06-13-2012, 03:09 PM
  #38
WarriorofTime
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
Strait
Bortuzzo
Despres
Morrow
So even with your Defense badly exposed in the Playoffs you'd rather go with AHL players over a "proven top pair Defenseman"? And you can't see why people don't want to offer much for him?

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06-13-2012, 03:12 PM
  #39
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Michalek for Brenden Morrow

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Old
06-13-2012, 03:18 PM
  #40
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Michalek and Tangradi for Armstrong and Gunnarsson

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06-13-2012, 03:23 PM
  #41
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So even with your Defense badly exposed in the Playoffs you'd rather go with AHL players over a "proven top pair Defenseman"? And you can't see why people don't want to offer much for him?
Its not players as much as it players in our system. Martin IS NOT a bad player..hes not right for our system.

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06-13-2012, 03:25 PM
  #42
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It's not possible to under-value Martin. He's a mediocre-bad player on a terrible contract.
Foolish

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Old
06-13-2012, 03:31 PM
  #43
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Its not players as much as it players in our system. Martin IS NOT a bad player..hes not right for our system.
...unless the system is adjusted, which after the way this year's 1st round went, I think it will be.

I don't think Shero is going to trade Martin, he gave him that contract for a reason. If he does trade Martin, it will absolutely be because they think Despres doesn't need any more time in the AHL and give him Martin's spot in the lineup.

Look everyone, the team got away from their defensive mentality, they were solid all year and for a couple games after Sid returned, but at some point, they took on the mentality of outscoring opponents rather than outdefending them. We're talking about the same defense who was outstanding in 2010-11 when Sid and Malkin went down, nobody can tell me that they can't play like that again. They just need to be more structured and play more team defense. Martin and Michalek can stay. I would trade Lovejoy, maybe in a package with Strait for a decent pick (2nd or 3rd) but that's it.

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06-13-2012, 03:36 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitzburgh87 View Post
2nd and grabner and nino for michalek+niskanen (resigned) + mid pick?
Parenteau's looking like he is leaving as a ufa and Petrov,who they expected to sign,instead signed with a KHL team.

I don't see the isles making such a major deal,losing two forwards.They'd want one of
michalek+niskanen for their top 4.Not both imo.They are happy with Streit/Hamonic/MacDonald in their top 4.

Also,I thought Michalek had a NTC or NMC?

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Old
06-13-2012, 03:38 PM
  #45
Mr Jiggyfly
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Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
So even with your Defense badly exposed in the Playoffs you'd rather go with AHL players over a "proven top pair Defenseman"? And you can't see why people don't want to offer much for him?
First of all, it doesn't matter what a damn soul on here thinks about Martin. It matters what other GMs think. I watched Martin play like a top 3 blueliner for 6 yrs, then have an off yr. Every mistake became magnified and he became such a scapegoat that people started to blame him for plays when he wasn't even on the ice. Scuderi was vilified in much the same way... He is doing ok now though, big part of a second cup winning team I hear...

Other GMs aren't going to write a guy off after playing well for yrs and having one bad season. People act as if he finished -20 and not + 9 on the year. I'm not a big proponent of the +/- but it isn't easy to finish +9 if you had the type of season some are trying to portray that he had.

Let me ask you this, is Duncan Keith a bad blueliner also? His 10-11 campaign was pretty brutal and a definite bad year for him. Since one bad year defines a player, is it fair to say Keith sucks now?

Secondly, I'm not worried about the Pens defense. I don't get into knee jerk reactions. Two seasons ago the same group of players were part of one of the Pens best defensive teams in 15+ yrs.

Finally, someone has to be moved to make room for Bortuzzo and Strait who are fine young blueliners, who will be waiver eligible this season. Then they have Despres and Morrow who will be ready to step in no later than '13, with Despres likely to force his way into the top 6 this season.

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06-13-2012, 03:58 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
First of all, it doesn't matter what a damn soul on here thinks about Martin. It matters what other GMs think. I watched Martin play like a top 3 blueliner for 6 yrs, then have an off yr. Every mistake became magnified and he became such a scapegoat that people started to blame him for plays when he wasn't even on the ice. Scuderi was vilified in much the same way... He is doing ok now though, big part of a second cup winning team I hear...

Other GMs aren't going to write a guy off after playing well for yrs and having one bad season. People act as if he finished -20 and not + 9 on the year. I'm not a big proponent of the +/- but it isn't easy to finish +9 if you had the type of season some are trying to portray that he had.

Let me ask you this, is Duncan Keith a bad blueliner also? His 10-11 campaign was pretty brutal and a definite bad year for him. Since one bad year defines a player, is it fair to say Keith sucks now?

Secondly, I'm not worried about the Pens defense. I don't get into knee jerk reactions. Two seasons ago the same group of players were part of one of the Pens best defensive teams in 15+ yrs.

Finally, someone has to be moved to make room for Bortuzzo and Strait who are fine young blueliners, who will be waiver eligible this season. Then they have Despres and Morrow who will be ready to step in no later than '13, with Despres likely to force his way into the top 6 this season.
Don't like this comparison because Keith's resume of better seasons tops anything Martin's done. Keith's a Norris Winner and was #1 DMan on the Canadian Olympic team and his previous two years were just as good although they flew under the radar. Keith was drastically overworked playing 30 minutes a night because of no depth on Hawks D and he still produced a lot offensively. Keith had a great Playoff series against Vancouver in 2010-2011 as well.

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Old
06-13-2012, 04:10 PM
  #47
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Lovejoy is the only one I really wouldn't see the point in bringing back. He has decent size, very good mobility and is an NHL caliber player but his ceiling is still rather low and other guys in the system (Strait, Bortuzzo, Despres, Morrow) are more deserving of his roster spot. I think someone may take him for a late pick or he'll be a waiver claim. Like I said, he's an NHL player.

I really doubt Shero wants to overreact and part with Martin or Michalek because of a down season. He knows both players are better than they played at times last year and they can certainly bounce back and help the team going forward. He may have to move one of them just because it's so crowded on D with Strait, Bortuzzo and Despres all being NHL ready and Morrow not far off either. If no one takes Martin or Michalek because of the fairly high salaries then he may have to trade one or two of Strait, Bortuzzo, Niskanen. I doubt he'd trade Orpik but some Pens fans think he would.

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06-13-2012, 04:11 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
It's not possible to under-value Martin. He's a mediocre-bad player on a terrible contract.
He's still a good player, he just had a bad year but for his cap, we'd rather spend it on other D. Martin was being talked about as a possible trade for Malone which shows that some people still think he's worth something. Or that the teams are just trading big salaries.

Michalek is worth more than a 2nd or 3rd rounder as someone proposed. Niskanen will hopefully be re-signed at around $2m and Lovejoy will be waived.

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Old
06-13-2012, 04:16 PM
  #49
Mr Jiggyfly
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Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
Don't like this comparison because Keith's resume of better seasons tops anything Martin's done. Keith's a Norris Winner and was #1 DMan on the Canadian Olympic team and his previous two years were just as good although they flew under the radar. Keith was drastically overworked playing 30 minutes a night because of no depth on Hawks D and he still produced a lot offensively. Keith had a great Playoff series against Vancouver in 2010-2011 as well.
Of course it is a legit comparison.

If a talented player like Keith could have a bad year, why can't Martin? I can make several excuses for Martin having a bad season also, but I won't go there.

If Pens fans had their way Scuderi would of been chased out of town long before he became an integral part of helping them win a Cup in '09. Pens fans wanted to chase Sarge out his first year with the team because he played poorly... He did well after that one bad yr and was well worth his contract, but you would of thought he was the worst blueliner of all time to hear many Pens fans talk about him that first year.

Tons of Pens fans even wanted to deal Malkin before this year because the prior two seasons he wasn't playing well... He did alright this year I believe... I don't hear many fans wanting to trade him anymore.


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Old
06-13-2012, 05:01 PM
  #50
Captain Hook
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Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
He's still a good player, he just had a bad year but for his cap, we'd rather spend it on other D. Martin was being talked about as a possible trade for Malone which shows that some people still think he's worth something. Or that the teams are just trading big salaries.

Michalek is worth more than a 2nd or 3rd rounder as someone proposed. Niskanen will hopefully be re-signed at around $2m and Lovejoy will be waived.
I agree. Martin certainly isn't a bad/mediocre hockey player. You don't get the minutes he's gotten from the coach if you are just mediocre or bad. You watch the Pens/Caps HBO series and see how much film study and charting Bylsma and the coaching staff do. If the coach looks at that much film and keeps putting you out there then you must be doing a lot of things right. I'd say he's overpaid by a million or so but he's not a bad player.

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