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Oilers to move down at the draft...

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Old
06-13-2012, 02:30 PM
  #176
Crede777
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What counters the "Columbus could just take Murray" worry is the fact that, given the chance, Columbus CANNOT pass up the opportunity to draft Yakupov. Despite my worries about his playstyle, he remains the top player in the draft.

So essentially Edmonton would feel like they HAVE to get Murray and another defenseman for the pick and Columbus would feel like they HAVE to get the pick.

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Old
06-13-2012, 02:32 PM
  #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianPantherFan View Post
Would rights to Garrison, Howden and option to take Panthers 1st rounder this year or next year plus a 2nd rounder get it done?? They can sign Garrison for 4 years or something.
That's not even close to fair (Garrison rights are worthless so you are pitching Howden and a mid round 1st plus a mid round second). Even if you added to the point that it was fair, you have to grossly overpay if you want 1st overall.

Overpay = Huberdeau, Gudbranson, + 1st

You don't like it? Fine. The Oilers are happy to keep the potential 40 goal scorer.

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06-13-2012, 02:34 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by worraps View Post
That's not even close to fair (Garrison rights are worthless so you are pitching Howden and a mid round 1st plus a mid round second). Even if you added to the point that it was fair, you have to grossly overpay if you want 1st overall.

Overpay = Huberdau, Gudbranson, + 1st

You don't like it? Fine. The Oilers are happy to keep the potential 40 goal scorer.
Yeah, no. If Edmonton is looking at moving the pick it won't be that high.

Asking price would likely be the equivalent of a top-5 pick AND an NHL defensemen that would slot in somewhere between #2 and 4. That'd be about Huberdeau + Gudbranson (no 1st).

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06-13-2012, 02:37 PM
  #179
Frank Drebin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by worraps View Post
Overpay = Huberdeau, Gudbranson, + 1st

You don't like it? Fine. The Oilers are happy to keep the potential 40 goal scorer.
Just ridiculous.

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Old
06-13-2012, 02:38 PM
  #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
Yeah, no. If Edmonton is looking at moving the pick it won't be that high.

Asking price would likely be the equivalent of a top-5 pick AND an NHL defensemen that would slot in somewhere between #2 and 4. That'd be about Huberdeau + Gudbranson (no 1st).
That's why there probably won't be a deal.

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06-13-2012, 02:38 PM
  #181
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I can't wait for this draft to be over. The whole trading down, value of crap is just tiring to read.

Nevertheless, to entertain Dreger's comments: If Brian Burke and the Leafs were jet-set on making a splash at the draft and acquiring the #1 and the Oilers really were aiming at Ryan Murray, would the Oilers consider multiple deals to acquire assets?

1st OVR
5th OVR and Jake Gardiner
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5th OVR and Ryan Whitney OR Magnus Paajarvi
2nd OVR

Leafs draft Nail Yakupov, get best player in the draft.
Oilers draft Ryan Murray, acquire Gardiner and have inside shot at signing Justin Schultz. Defense now loaded with young blue-chip prospects.
Jackets draft Filip Forsberg, add a young NHL player to facilitate a faster rebuild.

I'm certain the Leafs and Oilers would add collectively in each deal, but it provides a realistic forecast as to what could happen moving towards the draft.

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06-13-2012, 02:47 PM
  #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by belair View Post
I can't wait for this draft to be over. The whole trading down, value of crap is just tiring to read.

Nevertheless, to entertain Dreger's comments: If Brian Burke and the Leafs were jet-set on making a splash at the draft and acquiring the #1 and the Oilers really were aiming at Ryan Murray, would the Oilers consider multiple deals to acquire assets?

1st OVR
5th OVR and Jake Gardiner
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5th OVR and Ryan Whitney OR Magnus Paajarvi
2nd OVR

Leafs draft Nail Yakupov, get best player in the draft.
Oilers draft Ryan Murray, acquire Gardiner and have inside shot at signing Justin Schultz. Defense now loaded with young blue-chip prospects.
Jackets draft Filip Forsberg, add a young NHL player to facilitate a faster rebuild.

I'm certain the Leafs and Oilers would add collectively in each deal, but it provides a realistic forecast as to what could happen moving towards the draft.
Howson isn't going for that without an addition. Edmonton would (but wouldn't add). Burke might (he'd have to add his 2013 1st round pick I'm guessing).

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06-13-2012, 02:48 PM
  #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by worraps View Post
That's not even close to fair (Garrison rights are worthless so you are pitching Howden and a mid round 1st plus a mid round second). Even if you added to the point that it was fair, you have to grossly overpay if you want 1st overall.

Overpay = Huberdeau, Gudbranson, + 1st

You don't like it? Fine. The Oilers are happy to keep the potential 40 goal scorer.
Ya, I don't like it. Garrison would be signed to 4 years or something... how often in a deal of this stature would the guy in question (Garrison) not sign? Both teams would do the work required before the deal became offical. One of the main UFA targets for the Oilers this off season is Garrison. I don't see Weber or Suter signing in Alberta.

So one of the Dmen in THIS draft will be better than Garrison,Howden plus a 1st and 2nd rounder combined? There is no franchise Dman in this draft better than that package. The Oilers add a Top 4 or better Dman with a booming shot on the PP which creates open ice for Hall,Eberle and RNH. Howden who is a great skater (Oliers brass mancrush over those type's) playing 2nd or 3rd line minutes on a deep Oilers forward grouping plus option to get Top 10-15 pick next summer if the Panthers slide next year with 2nd rounder or B level prospect thrown into equation.

If you look at the bigger picture the deal works for both sides. Now if the Oilers actually want Yak, then sure pass on this deal.

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06-13-2012, 02:50 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
Perhaps it's flawed but it's also flawed to pass up on the BPA especially in a draft like this to trade down unless the assets in the trade are too good to pass up.

I just don't see teams giving up a kings ransom to get up to #1 so it would be wise for the Oilers to take the safe route, draft the best player in the draft and worry about needs later. There are plenty of ways to acquire top pairing defensemen outside of the draft, there's no need to panic and draft one now just to fill a need.
I agree, a team won't give up a kings ransom to get #1, however I disagree on the point there are plenty of ways to get a #1 defenseman.

Only 3 ways...

UFA- Outside of Chara/Pronger/Neidermayer when was the last time a true #1 defenseman signed UFA somewhere?.. I am trying to remember off the top of my head but that's all I could come up with.

Trade- When was the last time besides the Dion trade has a #1 defenseman been acquired without a premuim paid?

Draft- Self explanitory.

I believe draft makes most sense for Oilers because UFA is not only extremly difficult but very rare such a player reaches the market. I also believe unless EDM overpaid substantially more than any other team, I believe most players with this kind of potential would choose a different UFA destination over Edmonton if all monies/term being equal. Not taking a shot at Edmonton, just going by recent history.

As for trade, I believe it makes more sense to trade down a faceless #1 pick who isn't part of organization or put on a jersey, versus trading a core piece (RNH/Hall/Eberle) in 2-3 years to address this need.

Just my thoughts.

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Old
06-13-2012, 02:58 PM
  #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by worraps View Post
Here are the last 11 first overall picks:

2011 - RNH
2010 - Taylor Hall
2009 - John Tavares
2008 - Steven Stamkos
2007 - Patrick Kane
2006 - Erik Johnson
2005 - Sidney Crosby
2004 - Alexander Ovechkin
2003 - Marc-Andre Fleury
2002 - Rick Nash
2001 - Ilya Kovalchuk

All but two of these players would easily be the best player on the Jets for the next decade (one of them already is the best player in franchise history Atl/Wpg not Wpg/Phx).
No one has said that Yakupov may not be a great player.

IMO, what you are failing to place any value on whatsoever, is the opportunity cost to the Jets (or any other team), to give up multiple quality assets for 1 player.

Maybe others are ok with it. IMO, I wouldn't trade Bogosian and the 9th because I think that the combined value of Bogosian and the 9th is better for the Jets in the long term.

It's not a "slight" on Yakupov. It's just placing a value on the other pieces and deciding that I like them more. Especially when there is a very good chance that we still get someone very good at 9, with the possibility that they turn out to be elite as well.

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06-13-2012, 02:59 PM
  #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by worraps View Post
Here are the last 11 first overall picks:

2011 - RNH
2010 - Taylor Hall
2009 - John Tavares
2008 - Steven Stamkos
2007 - Patrick Kane
2006 - Erik Johnson
2005 - Sidney Crosby
2004 - Alexander Ovechkin
2003 - Marc-Andre Fleury
2002 - Rick Nash
2001 - Ilya Kovalchuk

All but two of these players would easily be the best player on the Jets for the next decade (one of them already is the best player in franchise history Atl/Wpg not Wpg/Phx).
That is a good list, but not seeing many top pairing dmen. Honestly, I still think it is way too hard to project Nail as a superstar for the next 15 years. However, not hard at all to project a stud that has 450 games under his belt at 21...and seems to get better each time out. One man's opinion...would love to have Nail - but not for my boy Bogo

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06-13-2012, 03:03 PM
  #187
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Yakupov! Yakupov! Yakupov!!!

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06-13-2012, 03:15 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by lakai17 View Post
Yakupov! Yakupov! Yakupov!!!
Management response:Murray! Murray! Murray!

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06-13-2012, 03:18 PM
  #189
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I get the feeling that this draft is a lot like 2008.

Do the Oilers want Stamkos? Or Doughty? The kid that just won the cup? Who knows.

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06-13-2012, 03:20 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by Jerry Lundegaard View Post
Are there any recent examples of a team drafting based on team need rather than BPA that blew up in their face?
Oilers passing on Zach Parise because he was too small and they already had Mike Comrie

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06-13-2012, 03:21 PM
  #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyGuruPitka View Post
I get the feeling that this draft is a lot like 2008.

Do the Oilers want Stamkos? Or Doughty? The kid that just won the cup? Who knows.
Really poor comparison since Doughty was great in his final season and Murray hasn't been impressive at all coming into this draft.


Drew Doughty
65 5 28 33
67 21 53 74
58 13 37 50




Vs

Ryan Murray
52 5 22 27
70 6 40 46
46 9 22 31


Last edited by oilersfan11: 06-13-2012 at 03:26 PM.
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06-13-2012, 03:24 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by oilersfan11 View Post
Really poor comparison since Doughty was great in his final season and Murray hasn't been impressive at all coming into this draft.
HUH?

Didnt Murray just play in the WC and not look overmatched?

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06-13-2012, 03:25 PM
  #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyGuruPitka View Post
I get the feeling that this draft is a lot like 2008.

Do the Oilers want Stamkos? Or Doughty? The kid that just won the cup? Who knows.
Yakupov is much closer to Stamkos than Murray is to Doughty.

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06-13-2012, 03:27 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by Macch View Post
The Oil had the 2nd fewest shots per game last season. A high flying style offense like theres should be putting up way more shots.

To me it says they were stuck in their own zone too much. You can't create offense if you can't get the puck out of your own zone. Good defense translates to more offensive chances.
Exactly why oiler fans have been saying since the lottery less then zero interest in Schenn. Need a puck mover, we already have Smid and Schultz for our stay at home dmen

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06-13-2012, 03:28 PM
  #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyGuruPitka View Post
I get the feeling that this draft is a lot like 2008.

Do the Oilers want Stamkos? Or Doughty? The kid that just won the cup? Who knows.
You can't compare Murray to Doughty, that is straight up crazy talk.

Yakupov is the real deal, when was the last time a Russian became a bust drafted 1st overall? unless there is severe overpayment you trade the 1st overall. The hockey gods sure love Edmonton.

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06-13-2012, 03:28 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by KrisBeKreame View Post
HUH?

Didnt Murray just play in the WC and not look overmatched?


In the world juniors he absolutely SUCKED!.

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06-13-2012, 03:30 PM
  #197
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Originally Posted by Huffer View Post
No one has said that Yakupov may not be a great player.

IMO, what you are failing to place any value on whatsoever, is the opportunity cost to the Jets (or any other team), to give up multiple quality assets for 1 player.

Maybe others are ok with it. IMO, I wouldn't trade Bogosian and the 9th because I think that the combined value of Bogosian and the 9th is better for the Jets in the long term.

It's not a "slight" on Yakupov. It's just placing a value on the other pieces and deciding that I like them more. Especially when there is a very good chance that we still get someone very good at 9, with the possibility that they turn out to be elite as well.
My reply was speaking to the doubt that Yakupov would be a star. If I am the Jets I don't give up the farm to get him either.

The only one crazy/desperate enough to pay the price that the Oilers should demand is Burke.

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06-13-2012, 03:31 PM
  #198
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I really don't think Murray will be any better than d-man Karl Alzner.

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06-13-2012, 03:32 PM
  #199
worraps
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Originally Posted by oilersfan11 View Post
In the world juniors he absolutely SUCKED!.
His game against Russia was one of the worst I've seen a defenseman play (and I'm an Oilers fan) but his body of work at the world juniors wasn't that bad.

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06-13-2012, 03:33 PM
  #200
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Originally Posted by oilersfan11 View Post
I think we can with-out a doubt delete this part since Prendergast is a horrible scout.Kevin Prendergast since day 1 never had a clue on what he was doing.
I still remember getting the message that he was fired, what a glorious day that was

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