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Old
06-12-2012, 11:49 AM
  #26
korrowan
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Originally Posted by detredWINgs View Post
You don't think getting the puck in the net might have had something to do with puck-moving ability starting from the back-end?

I think people are seriously underestimating what the back-to-back loss of Rafalski and Lidstrom will do to our offense.

Defensive deficiencies be damned, we should be desperate for a defenseman like Wideman (or Mike Green for that matter) should we lose out on Suter.
Well I was under the impression that White was a poor man's Rafalski and that Smith can be pretty good once he stops turning the puck over being over agressive. Sure Suter would be great and is likely needed but replacing Stuart..meh guy was a turn over machine and was a shell of himself last season or at least the last half of last season.

I would rather see the kid play a ton of minutes and get that experience rather than bringing in some guy that just pushes him down the depth chart.

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Old
06-12-2012, 12:03 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
I don't want to slam Stuart now that he's gone, but this past season he was not the player he was for us a few years ago. While Smith may not be as solid defensively as Stuart was, I think the total package may balance out just as well. And the right upgrades up front, and/or system tweaks, can make our blueline look better, too.
Agree with you completely - the Stuart we saw this past season has lost a step and I'm afraid it's all downhill from here.

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06-13-2012, 04:56 PM
  #28
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I'd only be pleased with the signing of Wideman if we also signed someone else beforehand.He's an option yeah, but If we don't get Suter I don't know If we'll get anywhere next season.



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Old
06-13-2012, 07:45 PM
  #29
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Who are these mythical defensive defencemen everyone wants to get? Wideman and Carles stats are nearly identical although Carle is 4 years younger. My guess is Wideman comes cheaper. Comparing him to rafalski whose skating skills were subject before bad knees is ridiculous.
Like we said know one is saying he's an all star but he may be the best option out there. You can't trade a turd for a rose boys.

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06-13-2012, 07:49 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
I don't want to slam Stuart now that he's gone, but this past season he was not the player he was for us a few years ago. While Smith may not be as solid defensively as Stuart was, I think the total package may balance out just as well. And the right upgrades up front, and/or system tweaks, can make our blueline look better, too.
That's nuts.

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06-13-2012, 07:59 PM
  #31
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That's nuts.
Thank you for the wonderful insight, Bob. Care to explain WHY it's nuts?

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06-13-2012, 08:06 PM
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Because Stuart is that best defensive defenseman available. By rule when you judge a defensive defenseman you never leave thoroughly impressed, you just say that dude is a solid defenseman. The team wasn't is good therefore he wasn't as good.

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06-13-2012, 08:44 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by SoupNazi View Post
Thank you for the wonderful insight, Bob. Care to explain WHY it's nuts?
Because Stuart was pretty darn good last year.
Somehow, despite Kronwall being his defense partner most of the time, he was an easy PLUS player while Kronwall was -2.
Still today, that's really hard to explain.

19 even strength points. More than Lidstrom. More than Quincey.
177 hits. More than everyone on the wings. Among the most of any UFA defenseman (if not the most).
Second in blocked shots among Wings defensemen.
Giveaways? Only Lidstrom had less. Takeaways? 2nd to Lidstrom

Plays tough in front of the net.
Goes in and gets the puck FIRST and takes the hit to make the play, unlike many Wings defensemen who actually slow down and let the other guy get there first.
Despite his physically engaged style of play, he was penalized less than Ericsson and Kronwall and had only one more minute more than Lidstrom (thanks to the fight he got in with Stewart).
12 Minor penalties. Only RW defense with less were White 11, and Kindl 10.

Statistics aren't everything. But the stats Stuart put up last year show that last year could arguably be the BEST regular season he had as a Red Wing.

Stuart's highest point total in Detroit. Last year.
Stuart's Highest goal total in Detroit? Last year.
His best plus/minus in Detroit? last year.
Second best hits total was last year.


Yet there seem to be a lot of chowderheads saying "he checked out."
The only thing I'll criticize Stuart for is that he's gone from being a guy with above good speed to a guy with above average speed, and he isn't always the best passer.

Stuart could have easily been putting up 30 and 40 point seasons with PP time.


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Old
06-13-2012, 10:35 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Because Stuart was pretty darn good last year.
Somehow, despite Kronwall being his defense partner most of the time, he was an easy PLUS player while Kronwall was -2.
Still today, that's really hard to explain.

19 even strength points. More than Lidstrom. More than Quincey.
177 hits. More than everyone on the wings. Among the most of any UFA defenseman (if not the most).
Second in blocked shots among Wings defensemen.
Giveaways? Only Lidstrom had less. Takeaways? 2nd to Lidstrom

Plays tough in front of the net.
Goes in and gets the puck FIRST and takes the hit to make the play, unlike many Wings defensemen who actually slow down and let the other guy get there first.
Despite his physically engaged style of play, he was penalized less than Ericsson and Kronwall and had only one more minute more than Lidstrom (thanks to the fight he got in with Stewart).
12 Minor penalties. Only RW defense with less were White 11, and Kindl 10.

Statistics aren't everything. But the stats Stuart put up last year show that last year could arguably be the BEST regular season he had as a Red Wing.

Stuart's highest point total in Detroit. Last year.
Stuart's Highest goal total in Detroit? Last year.
His best plus/minus in Detroit? last year.
Second best hits total was last year.


Yet there seem to be a lot of chowderheads saying "he checked out."
The only thing I'll criticize Stuart for is that he's gone from being a guy with above good speed to a guy with above average speed, and he isn't always the best passer.

Stuart could have easily been putting up 30 and 40 point seasons with PP time.
No, he couldn't have. He's done it all of three times in his 12 year career, and hasn't done it since 2005. The 21 points he put up this year are pretty in line with the two 20 point years he had before, and isn't out of line with the PPG he's put up during his tenure in Detroit.

The same with the hits and blocks. Rate wise, he was worse than he's been in other years, reaching a low in blocks per game, and with a hits per game rate that was lower than in previous years but not overly out of line.

His counting stats were up because he played 81 games instead of 67.

Stuart's ice time was bumped down from each of the previous two seasons, and his quality of comp was bumped down from last year.

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Old
06-13-2012, 10:40 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
No, he couldn't have. He's done it all of three times in his 12 year career, and hasn't done it since 2005. The 21 points he put up this year are pretty in line with the two 20 point years he had before, and isn't out of line with the PPG he's put up during his tenure in Detroit.
And he could have done it again with regular PP time.


Quote:
The same with the hits and blocks. Rate wise, he was worse than he's been in other years, reaching a low in blocks per game, and with a hits per game rate that was lower than in previous years but not overly out of line.

His counting stats were up because he played 81 games instead of 67.

Stuart's ice time was bumped down from each of the previous two seasons, and his quality of comp was bumped down from last year.
Pure spin. Pure spin.
Every single meaningful stat posted was above his career bests, or second.

His plus minus was best. His points were best. His hits were second best. His goals were best.

He scored more even strength points than the God named Lidstrom.
And he did all this playing typical, hard-nosed fashion.

It's pure BS what you suggested Winger.

You're one of the people who've been arguing that it will be easy to replace Stuart with Quincey or Smith, so denigrating Stuart fits your view.

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Old
06-13-2012, 10:48 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post

You're one of the people who've been arguing that it will be easy to replace Stuart with Quincey or Smith, so denigrating Stuart fits your view.
... and you're one of the people who have been arguing that it will be difficult to replace Stuart, so talking up Stuart fits your view. So what?

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Old
06-13-2012, 10:49 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
And he could have done it again with regular PP time.

Pure spin. Pure spin.
Every single meaningful stat posted was above his career bests, or second.

His plus minus was best. His points were best. His hits were second best. His goals were best.

He scored more even strength points than the God named Lidstrom.
And he did all this playing typical, hard-nosed fashion.

It's pure BS what you suggested Winger.

Your stats are useless because you ignore the rate at which he accumulated them. You spent a lot of time spouting numbers that looked good without paying attention to why they looked good or choosing to ignore it.

Someone scoring more goals, blocking more shots, or throwing more hits when they play 81 games instead of 67 isn't surprising.

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