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Playoff All-Star Teams

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Old
06-13-2012, 06:51 PM
  #76
TheDevilMadeMe
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Originally Posted by Dennis Bonvie View Post
Was Kovalchuk really better than Parise?
I think he was a littlte better. He outpointed Parise 19-15, and he had assists on three OT goals. I get that Ilya's a mediocre defensive player, but I honestly wasn't very impressed with Parise's defense in the playoffs, either.

Now that I think about it, Ryan McDonough of the Rangers has an outside case for a playoff All Star next to Doughty. I thought he was easily their best skater during the playoffs and they did win 2 rounds.

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06-13-2012, 06:51 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Edler Statesman* View Post
I think the 2008 goaltender should be Chris Osgood rather than nobody. It's close though.
This made me laugh!

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06-13-2012, 06:54 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I think he was a littlte better. He outpointed Parise 19-15, and he had assists on three OT goals. I get that Ilya's a mediocre defensive player, but I honestly wasn't very impressed with Parise's defense in the playoffs, either.

Now that I think about it, Ryan McDonough of the Rangers has an outside case for a playoff All Star next to Doughty. I thought he was easily their best skater during the playoffs and they did win 2 rounds.
As an aside, do the Devils have any chance of signing Parise?

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06-13-2012, 07:00 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Dennis Bonvie View Post
As an aside, do the Devils have any chance of signing Parise?
If they get their financial house in order, they have a great chance of signing him. By all accounts, he loves the team, loves being captain, and really loves DeBoer's heavy forechecking system. And they'll easily have the cap space for him - he already had a cap hit of 6 million, so any raise he gets will be covered by Martin Brodeur's pay decrease, not to mention several replaceable players coming off the books. The big issue is whether the team itself is in financial trouble and doesn't have the real $$, but there are rumors a new investor has come along.

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06-13-2012, 07:38 PM
  #80
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For last years playoffs id take Lecavalier over St Louis. Marty was inspirational in the 1st series but Vinny was just as good and then was the better player in the later series esp defensively. Unless youre doing it strictly by positions in which case the RW still belongs to St Louis but i dunno if Lecavalier would beat out Bergeron for the C due to not playing the finals.

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06-13-2012, 08:22 PM
  #81
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if brown and kopitar have two forward spots locked up, is there any chance of henrique getting there in front of kovalchuk?

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06-13-2012, 08:38 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
if brown and kopitar have two forward spots locked up, is there any chance of henrique getting there in front of kovalchuk?
I think Claude Giroux would have a better argument than Adam Henrique.

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06-13-2012, 08:48 PM
  #83
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For last years playoffs id take Lecavalier over St Louis. Marty was inspirational in the 1st series but Vinny was just as good and then was the better player in the later series esp defensively. Unless youre doing it strictly by positions in which case the RW still belongs to St Louis but i dunno if Lecavalier would beat out Bergeron for the C due to not playing the finals.
It's been awhile, but I definitely don't remember Vinny being "just as good" as MSL during the first round. MSL was head and shoulders above the rest of Tampa in that series imo. Hell the third line with Bergenheim and Dom Moore worried me more than Lecavalier.

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06-13-2012, 09:36 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by quoipourquoi View Post
I think Claude Giroux would have a better argument than Adam Henrique.
For roflowning the penguins in round one, then not doing anything afterwards? Id take briere over giroux, at least he showed up in the second round.

Anyway, if brown, kopitar, and kovalchuk are the first all star team forwards, id say zach parise, adam henrique, mike richards, jeff carter, and brad richards compete for second team


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06-13-2012, 09:53 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Id take briere over giroux, at least he showed up in the second round.
So do you simply not take any first-rounds into consideration? It's not like Adam Henrique sets the bar that high; Giroux had a very good playoff despite his team's second-round loss, not unlike Datsyuk last year and Ovechkin in 2009.

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06-13-2012, 10:38 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by quoipourquoi View Post
So do you simply not take any first-rounds into consideration? It's not like Adam Henrique sets the bar that high; Giroux had a very good playoff despite his team's second-round loss, not unlike Datsyuk last year and Ovechkin in 2009.
Sure, the first round counts. But so do rounds 2, 3, and 4. And Giroux was bad in round 2 - ZERO points at even strength (2 goals, 0 assists overall), burned defensively on a couple of occasions, got himself suspended for the deciding game.

Torching the ROFLMAOterribad Penguins defense for 13 points in 6 games is cool and all, but for me to consider someone, a "postseason all star," he would have to have more than 2 points after the first round, especially while contributing nothing defensively.

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06-13-2012, 11:49 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
(real positions)

marchand kesler st. louis
chara seidenberg
thomas

though i have a sneaking feeling i just put kesler in there to make myself feel better. the best center could easily have been bergeron, krejci, or even lecavalier (vinnie's best playoff run, weird as that is to say).

humour me and let me pretend that it's like actual award voting where bergeron and krejci split the vote, allowing kesler to take it.
Tough for me to pick Kesler when he had just 1 assist and a -6 in the 7 game Finals v the Bruins. Bergeron was the best overall center IMO.

But that's all moot now anyways.....

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06-14-2012, 02:19 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
F: Ilya Kovalchuk, Anze Kopitar, Dustin Brown
D: Drew Doughty, Bryce Salvador
G: Jonathan Quick

I think that has to be it.
yep, that's it.

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Old
06-25-2013, 12:02 PM
  #89
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Ok, who's it going to be for 2013?

D are probably the easiest to pick...Keith and Chara

Goaltender is obviously between Rask and Crawford

Tons of candidates up front...Krejci, Bergeron, Lucic, Kane, Toews, Sharp, Hossa, Bickell


Think my picks right now are:

Krejci - Toews - Kane
Keith - Chara
Rask

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Old
06-25-2013, 12:53 PM
  #90
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Krejci - ? - ?
Keith - Chara
Rask

? = Bickell, Toews, Bergeron
? = Hossa, Sharp, Kane

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06-25-2013, 04:59 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by begbeee View Post
Krejci - ? - ?
Keith - Chara
Rask

? = Bickell, Toews, Bergeron
? = Hossa, Sharp, Kane
Kane won the Conn Smythe, how can you possibly leave him off the team?

Bickell - Krejci - Kane
Keith - Chara
Rask

for me

Lucic vs Bickell and Rask vs Crawford might be debatable. I think Krejci, Kane, Keith, and Chara are all easy picks

Edit:: I guess Toews has a case over Bickell/Lucic if we do it as 3 forwards, not by position.


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06-25-2013, 07:45 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Kane won the Conn Smythe, how can you possibly leave him off the team?

Bickell - Krejci - Kane
Keith - Chara
Rask

for me

Lucic vs Bickell and Rask vs Crawford might be debatable. I think Krejci, Kane, Keith, and Chara are all easy picks

Edit:: I guess Toews has a case over Bickell/Lucic if we do it as 3 forwards, not by position.
I think Bickell & Lucic had more impact throughout the playoffs than any of the other forwards. I would have voted for Bickell over Kane for the MVP.

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06-25-2013, 09:41 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Dennis Bonvie View Post
I think Bickell & Lucic had more impact throughout the playoffs than any of the other forwards. I would have voted for Bickell over Kane for the MVP.
Horton had quite the impact as well.

It would be really interesting to expand this list to a 1st and 2nd team or even a complete team of 12 forwards, 6 D and 3 goalies.

I can see guys taking Rask but Crawford really kept the black Hawks alive at times, even though he isn't the sexy pick.

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06-25-2013, 10:59 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
2008 - Didn't Datsyuk and Zetterberg spend most of the playoffs on the same line?
No. And Franzen was definitely better than Datsyuk in that run.

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That lets you pick both of them (Datsyuk at LW over Franzen). I take Kronwall over Rafalski - same points and a better rounded game. I would probably pick Fleury over Osgood - I just think he carried the team more.
Osgood was the second best player on the Wings in the 2008 playoffs. Given that they had Lidstrom, that's a big compliment.

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It was Lidstrom and Murphy who went out against Lindros in the '97 finals.
And Yzerman. Bowman put Yzerman's line on Lindros as much as possible.

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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Kane won the Conn Smythe, how can you possibly leave him off the team?

Bickell - Krejci - Kane
Keith - Chara
Rask

for me

Lucic vs Bickell and Rask vs Crawford might be debatable. I think Krejci, Kane, Keith, and Chara are all easy picks

Edit:: I guess Toews has a case over Bickell/Lucic if we do it as 3 forwards, not by position.
Toews has a case over Bickell/Lucic... but can you legitimately take Toews over Zetterberg? He scored two fewer points in nine fewer games (12 in 14 vs 14 in 23) and was a large part of the reason Toews' stats are so underwhelming. And Zetterberg played in a defensive role in both the Anaheim series and the Chicago series.

Not sure how he can NOT be the third guy after Kane and Krejci.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
Horton had quite the impact as well.

It would be really interesting to expand this list to a 1st and 2nd team or even a complete team of 12 forwards, 6 D and 3 goalies.

I can see guys taking Rask but Crawford really kept the black Hawks alive at times, even though he isn't the sexy pick.
Howard massively outplayed Crawford in round two, and Crawford didn't look any better in other rounds. You can take Crawford over Rask if you like, but Howard absolutely goes above Crawford.

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06-25-2013, 11:08 PM
  #95
Dennis Bonvie
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Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
Horton had quite the impact as well.

It would be really interesting to expand this list to a 1st and 2nd team or even a complete team of 12 forwards, 6 D and 3 goalies.

I can see guys taking Rask but Crawford really kept the black Hawks alive at times, even though he isn't the sexy pick.
But Bruins don't get out of the first round without Lucic's heroics in Game 7.

And virtually every defenseman in every series was looking over their shoulder to find Lucic before they made a hasty play.

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06-25-2013, 11:58 PM
  #96
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No. And Franzen was definitely better than Datsyuk in that run.
Datsyuk and Zetterberg played together at home when Babcock had control of the matchups. He split them on the road some that way at least one of them was on the ice. With that being said I know they also played together on the road some too because Datsyuk's hat trick in the Conference Finals was at Dallas.

As far as Franzen > Datsyuk, I completely disagree. Even if their offensive output was similar in terms of p/g, Datsyuk's impact in all areas of the ice were more valuable. Not to mention that Datsyuk played in 4 more games.



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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Osgood was the second best player on the Wings in the 2008 playoffs. Given that they had Lidstrom, that's a big compliment.
That's highly debatable. Osgood played the best hockey of his career that season and playoffs IMO, but he also had one of the best possession teams in recent years making life much easier on him. Datsyuk, Lidstrom, Osgood, Kronwall, Franzen, Rafalski, and even Stuart were all fantastic that postseason. Osgood getting the start over Hasek changed the Nashville series, but that was just as much because Hasek played very poorly and allowed a couple back breaking goals.



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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
And Yzerman. Bowman put Yzerman's line on Lindros as much as possible.
I would like to see evidence of this, because I thought Yzerman, Fedorov, and the grind line all seen time against him.



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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Toews has a case over Bickell/Lucic... but can you legitimately take Toews over Zetterberg? He scored two fewer points in nine fewer games (12 in 14 vs 14 in 23) and was a large part of the reason Toews' stats are so underwhelming. And Zetterberg played in a defensive role in both the Anaheim series and the Chicago series.

Not sure how he can NOT be the third guy after Kane and Krejci.



Howard massively outplayed Crawford in round two, and Crawford didn't look any better in other rounds. You can take Crawford over Rask if you like, but Howard absolutely goes above Crawford.
Guys who make it two rounds aren't going to make the cut. Datsyuk was pretty convincingly the best center in the 2011 playoffs but 2rds aren't enough for a postseason all star team. You're showing your Detroit colors too much again.

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06-26-2013, 01:01 AM
  #97
Kyle McMahon
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Toews has a case over Bickell/Lucic... but can you legitimately take Toews over Zetterberg? He scored two fewer points in nine fewer games (12 in 14 vs 14 in 23) and was a large part of the reason Toews' stats are so underwhelming. And Zetterberg played in a defensive role in both the Anaheim series and the Chicago series.

Not sure how he can NOT be the third guy after Kane and Krejci.
I'm gonna go out on a huge limb here and say that perhaps it was because Zetterberg's team got bounced in round 2.

Not that it's an exact science, but if you don't play in the final you probably would need to lead the playoffs in scoring as a losing semi-finalist to be up for discussion.

By the way, Toews played in a defensive role pretty much the entire post-season. Outside of three games against Detroit, he did exactly what his coach required of him. Which was outplay the other team's top center/centers at even strength. He neutralized the Koivu line, outlasted Datsyuk and Zetterberg after early struggles, outplayed Richards, and kept Krejci under control while outplaying Bergeron.

Stat-gazers think Toews underperformed. People who watched the entire post-season unfold know better. The main reason his scoring totals were down was because Chicago's PP was so incredibly terrible. So he can be criticized for that, but I think you have to blame the entire unit when a PP struggles.

Quote:
Howard massively outplayed Crawford in round two, and Crawford didn't look any better in other rounds. You can take Crawford over Rask if you like, but Howard absolutely goes above Crawford.
I'd take Rask over Crawford as well. How Crawford can be lower than 2nd is beyond me though. I mean if we're going to start talking about 2nd round ousters as potential all-stars, I guess Henrik Lundqvist should be #1.

Crawford was Jekyl and Hyde. Or Tim Thomas if you prefer. Specific instances of great goaltending that kept his team in games during lapses of concentration. Some awful goals surrendered that forced his team to respond with big efforts to make up for it.

Brilliant in winning a triple OT game in he finals, wretched in allowing five goals when his team's back was against the wall in Game 4 of that series. Outplayed reigning Smythe winner Quick in the semi-final. Allowed a floater to give the Red Wings the lead in a do or die Game 6 that his team rallied from, and was general sub-par in that series. Kept Chicago in the game last night which allowed their eventual triumph. Overall he played pretty well, it`s just that his let-downs seemed to occur at the worst possible moments when his team desperately needed him.

Rask didn't allow the weak goals Crawford did, most of the time he was let down by shoddy defending. The Blackhawks got loose and Pronger-ed Chara in the latter half of the series.

Tough year to select a playoff AST on the wings. Little to choose from between Bickell and Lucic. I think Lucic was a little better overall, but Bickell deserves credit for knocking Chara around in the final. Patrick Sharp and Nathan Horton are both in the discussion too. I thought Sharp was Chicago`s most consistent forward throughout the four rounds while Horton tailed off. Kane won the Smythe, a rather dubious slection IMO, but you can`t leave him out of the discussion either.

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06-26-2013, 01:17 AM
  #98
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Datsyuk and Zetterberg played together at home when Babcock had control of the matchups. He split them on the road some that way at least one of them was on the ice. With that being said I know they also played together on the road some too because Datsyuk's hat trick in the Conference Finals was at Dallas.
He played them together more at home than on the road, but they spent more time apart than together.

Quote:
As far as Franzen > Datsyuk, I completely disagree. Even if their offensive output was similar in terms of p/g, Datsyuk's impact in all areas of the ice were more valuable. Not to mention that Datsyuk played in 4 more games.
I know you disagree. But Franzen had a better PPG, and consistently came up clutch. Datsyuk played well, but as I have said before he was behind Zetterberg, Osgood, Lidstrom, and Franzen in importance to the Wings in that run.

Quote:
That's highly debatable. Osgood played the best hockey of his career that season and playoffs IMO, but he also had one of the best possession teams in recent years making life much easier on him. Datsyuk, Lidstrom, Osgood, Kronwall, Franzen, Rafalski, and even Stuart were all fantastic that postseason. Osgood getting the start over Hasek changed the Nashville series, but that was just as much because Hasek played very poorly and allowed a couple back breaking goals.
1) Osgood was even better in 2009 than he was in 2008; that's not really debatable.
2) A Cup winning team will have players playing well. That's why they win the Cup. That said, even with all of that strong help, Osgood was still the second-most important player on the team. If he had started from game 1 of round 1, he might even be in Smythe talk.

Quote:
Guys who make it two rounds aren't going to make the cut. Datsyuk was pretty convincingly the best center in the 2011 playoffs but 2rds aren't enough for a postseason all star team. You're showing your Detroit colors too much again.
Datsyuk in 2011 and Zetterberg this year both finished 14th; and both have a ridiculously strong argument to be included. The thing is... Zetterberg played Toews directly, and we see this:

Toews vs Detroit: 4 points in 7 games (0.57 PPG)
Toews vs Minny/LA/Boston: 10 points in 16 games (0.63 PPG)

So compared to being matched up against the league's best defenseman, or against a couple other top defensive forwards who have high-quality defenses backing them, Zetterberg actually shut Toews down more. You can't watch the Detroit/Chicago series and legitimately say that Toews is even close to Zetterberg.

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06-26-2013, 01:34 AM
  #99
Hawkey Town 18
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Originally Posted by Kyle McMahon View Post
I
Tough year to select a playoff AST on the wings. Little to choose from between Bickell and Lucic. I think Lucic was a little better overall, but Bickell deserves credit for knocking Chara around in the final. Patrick Sharp and Nathan Horton are both in the discussion too. I thought Sharp was Chicago`s most consistent forward throughout the four rounds while Horton tailed off. Kane won the Smythe, a rather dubious slection IMO, but you can`t leave him out of the discussion either.
Just to be clear, in this exercise the specific LW/C/RW positions do not matter, we're just looking for 3 forwards.


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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Toews vs Detroit: 4 points in 7 games (0.57 PPG)
Toews vs Minny/LA/Boston: 10 points in 16 games (0.63 PPG)

So compared to being matched up against the league's best defenseman, or against a couple other top defensive forwards who have high-quality defenses backing them, Zetterberg actually shut Toews down more. You can't watch the Detroit/Chicago series and legitimately say that Toews is even close to Zetterberg.
I have no idea how or if this changes this comparison, but in this context you should really only be looking at ES pts.


Also, given the extremely small sample sizes, a difference of 0.06 ppg is pretty meaningless...it rounds to one extra point over the entire playoff run.

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06-26-2013, 01:45 AM
  #100
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I have no idea how or if this changes this comparison, but in this context you should really only be looking at ES pts.
That's an excellent point.

Toews scored three of his four PP points in the Wings series. His only ES point was scored with Zetterberg on the bench in game six on a play that was offsides, a *mistake* which ended up giving Chicago the lead in the game.

Quote:
Also, given the extremely small sample sizes, a difference of 0.06 ppg is pretty meaningless...it rounds to one extra point over the entire playoff run.
The fact that he scored less in the Wings series (and not at all with Zetterberg on the ice) is still notable.

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