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The Official Offseason Thread (Part V) - "ZP don't take kindly to us"

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Old
06-14-2012, 08:32 AM
  #101
jerseyjinx94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBKers View Post
Slater

29 yo
6'
200 lbs
1st round pick (#30 2002)

Total NHL career
443 GP
60 goals
61 assists
121 points
0,27 PPG
-7
324 PIM

Last season
78 GP
13 goals
8 assists
21 points
-9
42 PIM

Salary next 3 years = 1,6 M per

Campbell
28 yo
6'
197 lbs
3rd round pick (#67 2002)

Total NHL career
553 GP
51 goals
85 assists
136 points
0,25 PPG
-34
489 PIM

Last season
85 GP
8 goals
10 assists
18 points
-6
84 PIM

Salary next 3 years = 1,6 M per

Prust

28 yo
6'
192 lbs
3rd round pick (#70 2004)

Total NHL career
303 GP
25 goals
41 assists
66 points
0,22 PPG
+3
647 PIM

Last season
101 GP
6 goals
13 assists
19 points
-2
187 PIM

Salary next 3 years = ??? UFA

Statistically - no way should he get more than The 2 aforementioned players. Somewhat less IMO. He brings. Lot of other things though - fighting and PK to be specific - but his lingering injury risk and substantial drop in offfensive production last season should somewhat limit his pay raise IMO. We will see...
Prust at 1.6 is fine. We're talking a few hundred thousand here. Not gonna hamper the cap situation. He's important to retain.

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Old
06-14-2012, 08:32 AM
  #102
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I want Bobby Ryan. Get it done Sather!

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Old
06-14-2012, 08:33 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by jerseyjinx94 View Post
Prust at 1.6 is fine. We're talking a few hundred thousand here. Not gonna hamper the cap situation. He's important to retain.
I agree but think the roof is there and definitely not any higher

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06-14-2012, 08:37 AM
  #104
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"We would have been in the SC finals if we had a 4th line like the Devils"...yet not one person has made an offseason plan that includes signing Gionta, Carter, or Bernier (all UFA).

#HFlogic

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Old
06-14-2012, 08:46 AM
  #105
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Rangers moving up to snag Yakupov would be EPIC!

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Old
06-14-2012, 08:50 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Uncle Bino View Post
"We would have been in the SC finals if we had a 4th line like the Devils"...yet not one person has made an offseason plan that includes signing Gionta, Carter, or Bernier (all UFA).

#HFlogic
We have a real good fourth line too. The problem is that they were playing on the third line.

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Old
06-14-2012, 08:58 AM
  #107
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Apart from Suter, none of the mid or high end UFA's interest me AT ALL.

Doan stated that if the Coyotes left Phoenix he would seriously contemplate retirement. He does not want to move his family and they love Phoenix. He will not sign in NY.

Parise, while a great, hard-working player, will, IMO, break down in 3~4 years due to his playing style. When he starts to slow down, his numbers will drop rapidly.

The best move for this organization would be to go out and offer a serious contract to Ryan Suter. Bring him in as the Rangers #1 d-man which opens up the possibility of moving Del Zotto for a forward.

Nash - Overpaid and Howson is asking for TOO Much.
Ryan - Good complimentary player but does not bring it every night.
Getzlaf - If he is available, he should be the target.

I like the ideas of Oshie and Perron from St Louis. They have too many wingers with Tarasenko and Schwartz ready to go next season.

Signing Schultz and Suter should be the priority. Do not make the knee-jerk reaction of just settling for what is out there in terms of forwards like they did with Gomez and Drury when they needed centers. This years UFA forward crop is total crap.

Staal
Perry
Getzlaf
Iginla
Ribeiro
Hartnell
Clowe
Weiss
Filpulla
Clarkson
Zajac

All available next year

Will all of them reach UFA? No. But I will bet you some of them do. MUCH better options next year.

Torts said he wants to add another top-4 d-man. He coached Suter at the Olympics. Shore up one of the holes this off-season and make a trade for a young, inexpensive, skilled forward with MDZ.

Make a run at Perry, Getzlaf, Zajac, Clarkson, Clowe, etc. next off-season.

PLEASE!!

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Old
06-14-2012, 09:00 AM
  #108
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I'm sure this will be an unpopular idea but what about bringing Sykora back? Can play either wing in the top 9 and score some goals. Probably wouldn't cost too much. May want a 2 year deal though.

Kreider- Stepan - Gaborik
Sykora - Richards - Callahan
Dubinsky - Anisimov - Hagelin
Rupp - Boyle - Prust

Still open to exploring what Radulov would cost from a trade/contract aspect. Obviously there are bigger fish in the pool but that will cost money or assets that we may not want to part with.

Also, I think Sather will do his diligence and at least make a phone call to see what Parise, Suter, Semin are looking for.

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Old
06-14-2012, 09:00 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by jerseyjinx94 View Post
How is this short-sighted? It seems he was looking to NEXT offseason rather than just this offseason. If anything, his post was far-sighted.

I agree 100% with his post. We don't need to be the best team in hockey in the Regular Season to win the Cup. We need to be ready to go playing our best hockey come April. That's it. We can score plenty of goals - it was the playoffs. We played two tight checking teams. Our best scorer had a shoulder injury and a bunch of others were playing hurt. Stay the course, develop youngsters and free up money for next year unless a great trade falls into our laps.
a common practice on this board, is to create a caricature of what someone is stating (a strawman if you like) and then brandish a group of posters with this superimposed mindset.

When did i say, or anyone else, that we have to be the best team during regular season. Myself and others are simply advocating progression, and that includes key UFA acquisitions.

I understand that many think it is ludicrous to look at players like a Nash with his contract, etc. But once you accept the fact that this organization will never, never, ever be in a position to draft upper echelon talent, you have to examine ways in which you can procure them otherwise. I have resigned myself to this and embrace. Many won't and that's ok with me, but here we are...

i firmly believe that the lack of top end talent has been hurting our clubs development since the lockout. this team plays on eggshells, trying to nurse 1 goal leads practically the entire season. By the time the playoffs roll in, we're simply burnt. We rely too heavily on our net minder. If we want to be more than a one shot wonder, and truly be a contending team, we've got to bring in more scoring talent.

It doesn't have to be an $8m Nash, it can be 2 consistent 20-25 scorers, whatever. We Have to do it. we don't have enough.


Last edited by NikC: 06-14-2012 at 09:06 AM.
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Old
06-14-2012, 09:08 AM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregSirico View Post
Rangers moving up to snag Yakupov would be EPIC!
What would it cost though? However, I absolutely agree

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Old
06-14-2012, 09:21 AM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NikC View Post
a common practice on this board, is to create a caricature of what someone is stating (a strawman if you like) and then brandish a group of posters with this superimposed mindset.

When did i say, or anyone else, that we have to be the best team during regular season. Myself and others are simply advocating progression, and that includes key UFA acquisitions.

I understand that many think it is ludicrous to look at players like a Nash with his contract, etc. But once you accept the fact that this organization will never, never, ever be in a position to draft upper echelon talent, you have to examine ways in which you can procure them otherwise. I have resigned myself to this and embrace. Many won't and that's ok with me, but here we are...

i firmly believe that the lack of top end talent has been hurting our clubs development since the lockout. this team plays on eggshells, trying to nurse 1 goal leads practically the entire season. By the time the playoffs roll in, we're simply burnt. We rely too heavily on our net minder. If we want to be more than a one shot wonder, and truly be a contending team, we've got to bring in more top line scoring talent.

It doesn't have to be an $8m Nash, it can be 2 consistent 20-25 scorers, whatever. We Have to do it. we don't have enough.
At th
I agree they need help scoring goals and creating offense but that player just is not available this off-season. Settling creates major problems. Would Rick Nash help? Yes. Would moving Del Zotto + Erixon + Miller + 1st for Nash and his 8 million dollar a year contract help? No.

Parise does not fit either. He is a hard-worker and I love watching him play but he will deteriorate quickly due to his playing style and size.

All that I ask is for the Rangers to learn from their past mistakes (Drury, Gomez, Redden) and have some patience when looking into their options.

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Old
06-14-2012, 09:25 AM
  #112
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I'm just going to keep reiterating this until things actually start to happen this offseason.

Look into Radulov for an upgrade in the top-6. If it doesn't happen, don't do anything else up there.
Sign Lee Stempniak or David Moss. If neither, look into Shane Doan too. If none, explore 3rd line RWs potentially available via trade.
Sign Justin Schultz
Sign Bryan Allen or Milan Jurcina

Done.

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Old
06-14-2012, 09:40 AM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBKers View Post

Statistically - no way should he get more than The 2 aforementioned players. Somewhat less IMO. He brings. Lot of other things though - fighting and PK to be specific - but his lingering injury risk and substantial drop in offfensive production last season should somewhat limit his pay raise IMO. We will see...
prust brings more to the table than either of these guys. 1.6 is probably top end that i'd want to pay him, but i wouldn't pay either of these guys more than him. (more of a complaint about how much they're making than how much prust should)
everybody on this team is an injury waiting to happen because of the system we play. prust hasn't missed any significant time despite being an 'enforcer' so i wouldn't take that into account at all in terms of salary-- just in length.

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Old
06-14-2012, 10:00 AM
  #114
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Bottom line (no pun intended) is we need to sign some forwards for depth. There is no one on the Whale who can realistically step up and in. Stempniak is not a bad choice as a depth guy.

Even more important is to sign a legit 3rd pair D who can log 15 or so minutes a night, hopefully with Erixson, and take some of the load off of McD, DG, Staal, and MdZ. I have no problems with the jobs Stralman and Bickel did last year, but an upgrade there would help us in the playoffs and keep our big four from wearing down. Jurcina might fit well there.

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Old
06-14-2012, 10:04 AM
  #115
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Kick the tires on what it would take to get Michael Ryder from Dallas.

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06-14-2012, 10:13 AM
  #116
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Kick the tires on what it would take to get Michael Ryder from Dallas.
I like Ryder, but I can't imagine why the Stars would trade him now. He probably holds more value as a deadline rental if they end up being on the outside looking in come February.

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06-14-2012, 10:15 AM
  #117
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What is Zack supposed to say with his current teammates in the room, just after getting a team photo, "Yes I love the Rangers, I could see myself in a Rangers Jersey!"

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06-14-2012, 10:20 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
I agree they need help scoring goals and creating offense but that player just is not available this off-season. Settling creates major problems. Would Rick Nash help? Yes. Would moving Del Zotto + Erixon + Miller + 1st for Nash and his 8 million dollar a year contract help? No.

Parise does not fit either. He is a hard-worker and I love watching him play but he will deteriorate quickly due to his playing style and size.

All that I ask is for the Rangers to learn from their past mistakes (Drury, Gomez, Redden) and have some patience when looking into their options.
Would Nash help? Yes.

You are correct in addressing is the cost of bringing him in.

There are 2 issues. Cap space + giving up how much talent?

We read in the blogs about what Howson wanted or Sather was willing to give. Do we really know the price? Howson felt his greatest leverage would be in late June/early July. My guess is that he'll now accept the best price offered. Will the final deal be higher or lower than at the deadline?

Would you be as hesitant if the cost was Dubi+MDZ+1st in 2012 + 1st in 2013 (likely both very low first round picks)? The Rangers would be upgrading Dubi, taking a risk moving a young D but maybe a schultz is picked up in the interim? Giving up 2 late ist round picks might not be the end of the world.? All the talent in the minors is retained. Would the moves clearly help the Rangers for 2013? I believe so. Will others offer Howson more? Time wll tell.

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06-14-2012, 10:23 AM
  #119
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Our primary needs is scoring...Perhaps we can trade McIlraith for Tarasenko?


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Old
06-14-2012, 10:26 AM
  #120
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Our primary needs is scoring...Perhaps we can trade McIlraith for Tarasenko?

We just have to hope someone buys the Blues, fires the GM and hires Bob Gainey. Then we have a chance.

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Old
06-14-2012, 10:35 AM
  #121
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I want Richard Park. Seriously, I do.

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06-14-2012, 10:45 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Uncle Bino View Post
I want Richard Park. Seriously, I do.
#HF Logic

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06-14-2012, 10:49 AM
  #123
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Why does every proposal here include the Rangers giving up 4 assets for 1 player? Is that a requirement for the NHL XBOX game or something? You guys offer 4 guys for 1 like its candy.
Well give us a suggestion on how to get the extra scoring we need without giving up assets. In an ideal world you get that scoring from within the organization or fleece another team like the McDonagh trade but i dont think either will come to fruition.

We have glaring needs in the scoring department but if people are happy to stand pat and let the team grow without making the moves needed to improve scoring then thats fine with me. I wont be expecting us to win the cup though as was shown this year with our inability to put teams away or score enough goals.

I dont think anyone is under the impression that the players we are advocating trading are "candy" as you put it but the players most are saying to go for aren't players who are coming to the end of their career. They are players like Nash and Ryan etc who are are coming into to their prime. We now know Parise isn't an option.

Would i trade assets to get Ryan, Nash yes within reason.

Would i trade assets to get Iginla, St Louis etc no way.

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06-14-2012, 11:23 AM
  #124
jerseyjinx94
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Well give us a suggestion on how to get the extra scoring we need without giving up assets. In an ideal world you get that scoring from within the organization or fleece another team like the McDonagh trade but i dont think either will come to fruition.

We have glaring needs in the scoring department but if people are happy to stand pat and let the team grow without making the moves needed to improve scoring then thats fine with me. I wont be expecting us to win the cup though as was shown this year with our inability to put teams away or score enough goals.

I dont think anyone is under the impression that the players we are advocating trading are "candy" as you put it but the players most are saying to go for aren't players who are coming to the end of their career. They are players like Nash and Ryan etc who are are coming into to their prime. We now know Parise isn't an option.

Would i trade assets to get Ryan, Nash yes within reason.

Would i trade assets to get Iginla, St Louis etc no way.
Because the goal is to develop your own Nash, Parise, Ryan, etc., not trade multiplie pieces you have developed for them and offering a 12 year contract when they are making $5M+. No reason to make a move like this other than putting a name on the back of a jersey. Our scoring is not that bad. It is not as big of an issue as some make it, and our youth and system is one of the best in hockey. Why destroy that? I agree that you can't hold on to every prospect, but you want to move them for players who are young, relatively inexpensive, and established.

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06-14-2012, 11:38 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by 4th Line Grinder View Post
#HF Logic
the guy has had like 20 posts basically bashing everyone on HF but then comes up with...lets get Richard Park...ugh...

Quote:
Originally Posted by NikC View Post
a common practice on this board, is to create a caricature of what someone is stating (a strawman if you like) and then brandish a group of posters with this superimposed mindset.

When did i say, or anyone else, that we have to be the best team during regular season. Myself and others are simply advocating progression, and that includes key UFA acquisitions.

I understand that many think it is ludicrous to look at players like a Nash with his contract, etc. But once you accept the fact that this organization will never, never, ever be in a position to draft upper echelon talent, you have to examine ways in which you can procure them otherwise. I have resigned myself to this and embrace. Many won't and that's ok with me, but here we are...

i firmly believe that the lack of top end talent has been hurting our clubs development since the lockout. this team plays on eggshells, trying to nurse 1 goal leads practically the entire season. By the time the playoffs roll in, we're simply burnt. We rely too heavily on our net minder. If we want to be more than a one shot wonder, and truly be a contending team, we've got to bring in more scoring talent.

It doesn't have to be an $8m Nash, it can be 2 consistent 20-25 scorers, whatever. We Have to do it. we don't have enough.
THANK YOU!!!!

This teams 2 best offensive players were both brought in via UFA. For all our home grown crap, the only home grown players we've really developed are 3rd liners, Ryan Callahan, Henrik Lundqvist and some great defenseman, 1 of which was via a trade, 1 of which was an UFA gem we scooped up in Dan Girardi.

Take a look at the last guys to get 80+ points....I'd say about 90% (if not more) of them are acquired in the first 10 picks in the draft. We've only had 1 pick in that range in how long now? and we took McIlrath with that pick (blech)

Even the most optimistic Rangers fan doesnt think Kreider will become more than a 35/35 guy....
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregSirico View Post
Rangers moving up to snag Yakupov would be EPIC!
Id love it, but the cost would be monumental.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mooskating View Post
you don't think this team has room to improve? you don't think the start is important? you don't think that gaborik missing is going to hurt that start?

short memories?
people here and in the media and on the team talked about a big trade at deadline(NASH). a trade at deadline was considered important going into the playoffs. we needed scoring last season. primary scoring WOULD improve our team. it would push back our 3rd line players that are on the 2nd line now(or first in hagelin's case) and give us more depth. why would anybody NOT want more depth?

tbh this is just an ignorant thought process... teams don't win stanley cups and decide: 'okay im the best i can stop trying to improve now.' people certainly don't get to the ecf and say 'well we're good enough to win the cup. we'll just coast to it next season and win.'

while i agree that we don't need a goal scorer this year, you can't belittle the effect that it would have on this group. an extra 40 goals a season puts us up a good chunk... think how many games this season would've been wins if we had that 1 extra goal? or a 2 goal lead vs a 1 goal lead. we would've easily been presidents trophy sweepers. probably by a large gap.

tbh i wanna just wait til jordan staal comes on the market and chase him down if radulov isn't cheap now.
Praying guys will make it to UFA is a tough way to go...i do agree with everything in bold there though. I think this team is poised to make some runs at some cups over the next 5 years or so. Go get them 1 more legitimate scorer without destroying the current makeup of the team, and I think they win 1, if not a few.


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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Nash has twice hit the 40 goal mark in 9 years. He's hit the 30 goal mark 5 times. Lately it's been the lower 30's. He's more of a 30 goal scorer than a 40 goal scorer. More of a shooter than a passer. Acquiring him doesn't automatically add 40 or even 30 goals to the goals for column--it may over a season boost it 5 or 10 or 15--depending on who fills the missing holes and how well the rest of the team finishes.
Its tough to predict how Nash would effect us offensively. It depends on what we have to give up. If we have to give up a MDZ, it may even effect us negatively offensively since we have so few offensively capable defenseman. But, for poops and giggles lets say it does add say, 15 goals to our bottom line this year. That woudl take us from the 11th ranked offense to about the 4th or 5th ranked offense. More important though is how it would effect us offensively IN THE PLAYOFFS. a hurt gaborik and an up and down Richards carried us to within 2 wins of the SCF....how would a hungry Nash add to that? I don't think it would hurt, thats for damn sure. Nash doesnt have a ton of playoff numbers for you to extrapolate from, but 3 points in 4 games with Columbus, 25 points in 16 games for London in the O, those are tangible numbers...he hasnt come up empty. even if he puts up 1/2 a PPG in 20 games thats 10 points, how would those 10 points help the Rangers? I bet a tremendous amount. How many overtime games could have been avoided? how about the 3ot game where our defenseman basically all played 1, or in Ryan McDonaghs case 2 extra games worth. More offense can only help. It takes pressure off the other guys. Look at the Kings...how many weapons do they have? If Kopitar can't score they have Richards, if not him, Carter, if not him, Doughty, if not him Brown, if not him Williams, if not him Penner. They had 5 guys who had as many points or more points than our leading point scorer in the playoffs....playing in the exact same amount of games. 5!!! It's not that they are all way more talented than a guy like Gabby or Richards...its that they have other guys to take the pressure off. Everyone knows that there is more than enough offensive talent spread out across the team, it helps them loosen their hands on their sticks...same thing would happen with the Rangers...if you add Nash and he becomes say a 35/35 guy, and if Kreider can become a 25/25 guy this season then youve got 4 legitimate top 6 players right there (with Gabby and Richards). Less pressure on Stepan, less pressure on Cally, less pressure on our overworked D, less pressure on our all world goalie.

Jonathan Quick won the Conn Smythe trophy...but Henrik Lundqvist still faced more shots than him, and SIGNIFICANTLY more high quality chances...why? because LA controlled the puck in the neutral and offensive zone. Rangers didnt...because they lack the weapons. will Nash/Iginla/Bobby Ryan/Parise/Getzlaf/etc turn this team into the flying frenchman? no, at the core we still are a grind it out team. But I dont think we can stress just how important it is to take some pressure off this team during both the Regular season and the playoffs by having them score some effing goals.

Quote:
His $7.8 mil over the next 6 years OTOH will take a lot of cap space away for a long period of time.

In any case the 3 for 1 and 4 for 1 deals pretty much flush a lot of development work down the toilet. They open up holes all over the lineup which will then need to be refilled one way or another and usually that creates other needs. All of a sudden you have the scoring but you don't have the defense. The pwp scores more but the pk looks like ****.
Where are all our prospects going to play? People always talk about how many prospects we have, but where are they going to play. JT Miller gonna be a 4th liner now? Erixon, McIlrath, these guys are 7th defenseman now? If Sauer becomes healthy, he's a healthy scratch? When you have assets, they either need to play for you, or be moved to help the team right now. Im advocating helping the team right now.

Quote:
Gaborik is a very important part of the team but his injury is not necessarily the end of the world. He scored 21 goals in 2010-11--other players picked up his slack and there's no reason to believe it won't happen again. There's reason to believe that Kreider can score some and that guys like Stepan and Hagelin will continue to get better and that at least as far as stats Dubinsky and Anisimov and Boyle will also contribute more than they did last year. I really don't see why we should be panicking over this.
That team made the playoffs on the last day because Tampa Bay decided to do us a favor and not rest all their players when they had their spot all locked up. That team was also out in the first round of the playoffs in what...5 games? People love to say "blah blah blah will only become better" how many times do players just stay the same or actually have an off year? more often than you think. We were relatively injury free this season, what happens if Brad Richards goes out early next season? Then our best offensive players are Ryan Callahan and Brandon Dubinsky. IF thats the case we may actually finally have our chance to draft the franchise player everyone wants.

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There should be no big trades bringing in high priced players until the smoke clears on the new CBA. Too many posters here think the bigger the proposal the better--pay scant attention to cap space. Nash's 7.8 mil contract isn't just about the 12-13 season--(two RFA signing Del Zotto and Prust). It also effects 13-14--(Stepan, Anisimov, McDonagh and maybe Sauer--RFA's that year)--14-15 (when we'll have Kreider RFA + Callahan, Gaborik, Lundqvist, Girardi and Boyle--UFA's). That's two seasons down the road. Tell me how that is going to work if we've dumped off a bunch of our young to get Nash and are just getting our development program back together?--and if the Cap ceiling is lower? I suspect we'll be rebuilding again--maybe not from scratch but even so.
The proposals put forth have almost always come with, "here's how it fits under the cap" going forward. Stepan will be what, an RFA with no arbitration rights? I cant remember...either way, those 2 (with McDonagh) will get locked up. If that means we have to trade someone off our roster to keep them, then so be it. Mike Rupp and Brian Boyle won't stop this team from keeping Ryan McDonagh and Derek Stepan.
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I can see the add a top 6 winger scenario--one that might cost us a player and a good prospect--apart from that looking at the UFA's--signings that fill holes and don't undermine drafting and player development. This is the way to go for now. Gaborik misses two months--the sky is not falling. He's been out before.
who is this player? another 15-20 goal scorer isn't going to solve the rangers problems. they need either another 30-40 goal scorer, or they need to stand pat and wait for next years crop.

I dont think Nash is the ONLY target we should look at...but to me he's the best player of the bunch. Iginla would be a great pickup too.

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