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06-13-2012, 07:00 PM
  #276
TheHudlinator
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Originally Posted by NightBlazer View Post
I think Bill Arnold may have just as good of a chance, if not better, since he's a lot stronger right now.
Has he graduated? If not I doubt he leaves as he is a big part of the team and seems like a team first kinda guy.

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06-13-2012, 07:02 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by Flames Fanatic View Post
As someone who watches almost all of the Sens games on top of watching all of the Flames games, Konopka is not that much of an upgrade on Jones.

I'm also torn on the whole Comeau debacle. I think I'd rather have Jackman on the 4th line.
I've never been big on Konopka proposals either. He's a face-off specialist, but like you said, not much of an upgrade over Jones. I'd prefer Christenson, Wellwood, or Moore. All three guys can perform well in the faceoff circle as well as the shoot-out. I'm surprised so little people has put emphasis on the shoot-out around here.

The Flames had 16 OT losses, 9 of them shoot-out losses, while only 5 points out of a playoff spot.

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06-13-2012, 08:02 PM
  #278
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The Flames had 16 OT losses, 9 of them shoot-out losses, while only 5 points out of a playoff spot.
I agree with the shootout being an issue of major concern. They were miserable, just miserable this year. Problem is, we have guys on this team that should be good on the shootout... But under perform like crazy.

Would I like someone automatic? Of course... But normally they are skill guys... That are more than just s.o specialists.

Hopefully Roman, Sven and Backlund can get the s.o back in order... I just want a guy on the fourth that can eat up faceoffs, not a concern out there if he gets trapped against a second or first line... But that's too much to ask most of the time rofl.

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06-13-2012, 08:29 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
Has he graduated? If not I doubt he leaves as he is a big part of the team and seems like a team first kinda guy.
He'll be a junior next season. He strikes me as the type of guy who'll stay in school the full four years.

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06-13-2012, 10:20 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by Miokid View Post
I agree with the shootout being an issue of major concern. They were miserable, just miserable this year. Problem is, we have guys on this team that should be good on the shootout... But under perform like crazy.

Would I like someone automatic? Of course... But normally they are skill guys... That are more than just s.o specialists.

Hopefully Roman, Sven and Backlund can get the s.o back in order... I just want a guy on the fourth that can eat up faceoffs, not a concern out there if he gets trapped against a second or first line... But that's too much to ask most of the time rofl.
People, for some reason, believe that younger players are inherently better at the shoot-out. I think it's the type of player. Iginla is a sniper, but never really good at the shoot-out because every goalie had the book on him because he shoots. Likewise, Jokinen and Glencross pull the same move everytime. I think Iginla will have a better year condsidering how much he's changed his routine.

The best team at the shoot-out is one of the oldest teams in the league, according to quanthockey. Jersey, San Jose, Detroit, and Boston (exclude Minny) are all old teams. Likewise, veteran guys like Kovy, Burrows, Spezza, Elias, Hedjuk, Alfredsson, Handzus, Selanne, Bertuzzi and Datsuk are all guys really good on the shoot-out.

Christenson has been among the best shoot-out players in the past two years. Also, he had 52.6 SO% this year, 49.4 the year before, and 48.8 in the previous year. Wellwood is another guy who can hold down both areas. If Jokinen doesn't resign, we should go after Stoll or Christenson.

Because the shoot-out is so important for points, it's like a special teams area of the game. Doing nothing about it is just as foolish as doing nothing about our poor face-offs. IMO anyways.

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06-13-2012, 10:46 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
People, for some reason, believe that younger players are inherently better at the shoot-out. I think it's the type of player. Iginla is a sniper, but never really good at the shoot-out because every goalie had the book on him because he shoots. Likewise, Jokinen and Glencross pull the same move everytime. I think Iginla will have a better year condsidering how much he's changed his routine.

The best team at the shoot-out is one of the oldest teams in the league, according to quanthockey. Jersey, San Jose, Detroit, and Boston (exclude Minny) are all old teams. Likewise, veteran guys like Kovy, Burrows, Spezza, Elias, Hedjuk, Alfredsson, Handzus, Selanne, Bertuzzi and Datsuk are all guys really good on the shoot-out.

Christenson has been among the best shoot-out players in the past two years. Also, he had 52.6 SO% this year, 49.4 the year before, and 48.8 in the previous year. Wellwood is another guy who can hold down both areas. If Jokinen doesn't resign, we should go after Stoll or Christenson.

Because the shoot-out is so important for points, it's like a special teams area of the game. Doing nothing about it is just as foolish as doing nothing about our poor face-offs. IMO anyways.
I think it's less that we believe younger players are inherently better, and more that we know most of our older vets suck at it (Tanguay and Jokinen notwithstanding) whereas we don't know that for the younger ones.

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06-13-2012, 11:21 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by SmellOfVictory View Post
I think it's less that we believe younger players are inherently better, and more that we know most of our older vets suck at it (Tanguay and Jokinen notwithstanding) whereas we don't know that for the younger ones.
What older vets are you talking about that excludes Tanguay and Jokinen? Jokinen, Tanguay, Iginla, and Cammy have gotten the most attempts out of all players this season (Stempniak, Glencross, and Jones share a tie for fifth). Last year it was Tanguay, Borque, Hagman, Jokinen and Glencross. The 09-10 season it was Jokinen, Dawes, Lundmark, and Iginla doing the shoot-outs. So you must be talking about Iginla...

Personally I think Iginla will have really good numbers next year if the team is silly enough to go with him after his poor numbers over the years. He made it a personal mandate last offseason to perform better at the shoot-out, and considering that he has always looked absolutely terrible at it, he's made some dramatic improvement since past years. He looked like one of the better players in the shoot-out this year if you disregard his poor numbers.

Tangs look uninterested all year and kept hitting the goalies pads, while Olli must have tried the same left-right-left and in the five hole technique 5 times. Iginla at least looked entertaining doing it this year, whereas previous years he would only shoot it.

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06-13-2012, 11:23 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
People, for some reason, believe that younger players are inherently better at the shoot-out. I think it's the type of player. Iginla is a sniper, but never really good at the shoot-out because every goalie had the book on him because he shoots. Likewise, Jokinen and Glencross pull the same move everytime. I think Iginla will have a better year condsidering how much he's changed his routine.

The best team at the shoot-out is one of the oldest teams in the league, according to quanthockey. Jersey, San Jose, Detroit, and Boston (exclude Minny) are all old teams. Likewise, veteran guys like Kovy, Burrows, Spezza, Elias, Hedjuk, Alfredsson, Handzus, Selanne, Bertuzzi and Datsuk are all guys really good on the shoot-out.

Christenson has been among the best shoot-out players in the past two years. Also, he had 52.6 SO% this year, 49.4 the year before, and 48.8 in the previous year. Wellwood is another guy who can hold down both areas. If Jokinen doesn't resign, we should go after Stoll or Christenson.

Because the shoot-out is so important for points, it's like a special teams area of the game. Doing nothing about it is just as foolish as doing nothing about our poor face-offs. IMO anyways.
It's not a matter of young guy, it's a matter of skill guys. In my honest opinion, Flames don't have a ton of skill, the three guys I named should have the most "skill", pure talent with the puck on the team.
Jerome's not a skill player, he's a shooter, so is Cammy. Olli is so, so... and Tanguay had a drop off from an amazing S.O last season.

When I think of pure skill, guys who should be able to do some neat things with a puck and beat a goalie 1 on 1, it's the three I named there. Backlund hasn't shown it, but there were flashes where he was trying to make a move instead of a wrister too tight in (see Iginla S.O attempts).

Of course Detroit is amazing, what's the running theme here? Skill.
Dats + Zett is 1-2 punch anyone would want going into a best of three.

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06-14-2012, 12:18 AM
  #284
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Originally Posted by Miokid View Post
It's not a matter of young guy, it's a matter of skill guys. In my honest opinion, Flames don't have a ton of skill, the three guys I named should have the most "skill", pure talent with the puck on the team.
Jerome's not a skill player, he's a shooter, so is Cammy. Olli is so, so... and Tanguay had a drop off from an amazing S.O last season.

When I think of pure skill, guys who should be able to do some neat things with a puck and beat a goalie 1 on 1, it's the three I named there. Backlund hasn't shown it, but there were flashes where he was trying to make a move instead of a wrister too tight in (see Iginla S.O attempts).

Of course Detroit is amazing, what's the running theme here? Skill.
Dats + Zett is 1-2 punch anyone would want going into a best of three.
What the hell is skill? So Iginla isn't skilled, meaning he "has no talent with the puck", but Backlund is? You really, really lost me here. Matt Cullen is the 4th/5th best shoot-out guy in the league, but has more skill than Iginla? The shoot-out is a skill, face-offs is a skill, hitting is a skill, etc, therefore, I proposed guys who've demonstrating these shoot-out skills where you propose someone who hasn't demonstrated shoot-out skills. Backlund, Baestchi and Horak might be those guys, but ****, so might PL3 if he was given a chance.

I attempted to associate the shoot-out with the type of players, such as dangler, power forward, two-way player, etc., but I have no statistical evidence to make that claim. Nor do you. I certainly hope Feaster doesn't make his decisions on poor evidence.

P.S - Backlund couldn't beat a hog-tied goalie 1-on-1. Horak is still too early to say for sure, but hasn't indicated any better. Baerrschi maybe, but Baertschi is known to be a playmaker. And when i've seen Iginla this year, he's shown he can deke pretty well. He's completely changed his shoot-out execution.


Last edited by MarkGio: 06-14-2012 at 12:24 AM.
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06-14-2012, 02:40 AM
  #285
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As someone who watches almost all of the Sens games on top of watching all of the Flames games, Konopka is not that much of an upgrade on Jones.

I'm also torn on the whole Comeau debacle. I think I'd rather have Jackman on the 4th line.
No Konopka isn't much of an upgrade on Jones once the play is moving, but in the faceoff circle he is a significant upgrade which is why a bunch of us want him and I would say he is an upgrade in toughness too and we are a team that could use more toughness IMO.

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06-14-2012, 07:36 AM
  #286
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What the hell is skill? So Iginla isn't skilled, meaning he "has no talent with the puck", but Backlund is? You really, really lost me here. Matt Cullen is the 4th/5th best shoot-out guy in the league, but has more skill than Iginla? The shoot-out is a skill, face-offs is a skill, hitting is a skill, etc, therefore, I proposed guys who've demonstrating these shoot-out skills where you propose someone who hasn't demonstrated shoot-out skills. Backlund, Baestchi and Horak might be those guys, but ****, so might PL3 if he was given a chance.

I attempted to associate the shoot-out with the type of players, such as dangler, power forward, two-way player, etc., but I have no statistical evidence to make that claim. Nor do you. I certainly hope Feaster doesn't make his decisions on poor evidence.

P.S - Backlund couldn't beat a hog-tied goalie 1-on-1. Horak is still too early to say for sure, but hasn't indicated any better. Baerrschi maybe, but Baertschi is known to be a playmaker. And when i've seen Iginla this year, he's shown he can deke pretty well. He's completely changed his shoot-out execution.
I was talking Cervenka, not horak, he doesn't have a roster spot coming into next season. When I'm talking skill, I'm talking about guys that can do fun things with the puck.

When someone is talking hockey and says something about skill guys, they're talking about finesse players. While there are of course exceptions to everything... Guys who tend to be good at the shootout or also guys who tend to be good with the puck, good at making moves and of course have magnificent hands.

If you ever watched the Rockets when backlund wad there, or watched him play for Sweden at the world's.... He was doing amazing things, he was fun to watch and he was dangerous every time he hit the ice... Those creative guys are what you want in the shootout.

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06-14-2012, 07:40 AM
  #287
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Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
What the hell is skill? So Iginla isn't skilled, meaning he "has no talent with the puck", but Backlund is? You really, really lost me here. Matt Cullen is the 4th/5th best shoot-out guy in the league, but has more skill than Iginla? The shoot-out is a skill, face-offs is a skill, hitting is a skill, etc, therefore, I proposed guys who've demonstrating these shoot-out skills where you propose someone who hasn't demonstrated shoot-out skills. Backlund, Baestchi and Horak might be those guys, but ****, so might PL3 if he was given a chance.

I attempted to associate the shoot-out with the type of players, such as dangler, power forward, two-way player, etc., but I have no statistical evidence to make that claim. Nor do you. I certainly hope Feaster doesn't make his decisions on poor evidence.

P.S - Backlund couldn't beat a hog-tied goalie 1-on-1. Horak is still too early to say for sure, but hasn't indicated any better. Baerrschi maybe, but Baertschi is known to be a playmaker. And when i've seen Iginla this year, he's shown he can deke pretty well. He's completely changed his shoot-out execution.
Baertschi has proven to be very successful in shootouts at the junior level, but then again it is only juniors. I also find it extremely fascinating how Baertschi can go from a "sniper" in his draft year to a "playmaker" over the course of a single season. Clearly that speaks volumes about his all around skill level and ability to adapt his game around his teammates. He truly is an all around offensive threat.

As far as your suggestion for bringing in Christensen, I just don't see it. He is not suited to play a bottom six role at the NHL level, and is not skilled enough or consistent enough to secure a permanent top six spot either. He is your classic NHL tweener, and if we truly wanted to address the shootout troubles from last season, I am sure there are far better options out there. I would also like to say that I am personally not all that concerned about addressing that area as the results on a year to year basis fluctuate to such a large degree.

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06-14-2012, 07:48 AM
  #288
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Originally Posted by Miokid View Post
I was talking Cervenka, not horak, he doesn't have a roster spot coming into next season. When I'm talking skill, I'm talking about guys that can do fun things with the puck.

When someone is talking hockey and says something about skill guys, they're talking about finesse players. While there are of course exceptions to everything... Guys who tend to be good at the shootout or also guys who tend to be good with the puck, good at making moves and of course have magnificent hands.

If you ever watched the Rockets when backlund wad there, or watched him play for Sweden at the world's.... He was doing amazing things, he was fun to watch and he was dangerous every time he hit the ice... Those creative guys are what you want in the shootout.
One word. Confidence.

At this point in his career he has yet to prove to himself that he can make those plays and show his offensive creativity at the highest level. He may never grow to find that confidence either, but if he does he certainly has the skillset to be a highly productive NHL player.

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06-14-2012, 09:25 AM
  #289
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No Konopka isn't much of an upgrade on Jones once the play is moving, but in the faceoff circle he is a significant upgrade which is why a bunch of us want him and I would say he is an upgrade in toughness too and we are a team that could use more toughness IMO.
This is excatly why I want Konopka

1) Great FOs
2) Added toughness
3) curbed his pnealty problems and is good enough to not be a liability on the ice.

In short we need more toughness and someone who can win FOs.

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06-14-2012, 09:29 AM
  #290
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My point is that Comeau to this point has been the better player and his healthy. He can play the pk which Lat cannot and he is cheaper than your proposed Lat contract.

Since Lat joined Minny he has 52 points in 82 games for ppg of .63

Comeau has 96 points in 212 games for ppg of .45 but this year I feel is an anomaly as he just didn't look right all year so with out this year he has 81 points in 138 for ppg of .59 making them extremely close and he wasn't put in as many offensive situations. (as I showed before) if Lat does not work out offensive he is useless if Comeau doesn't work out he can play the pk.

Lat has only been able to play 82 games in THREE years. There is no way I would risk letting Comeau go for him.
What the hell was my proposed Latendresse contract? 1 year on cheap money?

Can someone explain to me how we can get Comeau for cheaper than his 2.5? I still do not understand this.

Ideally I'd like them both on cheap 1 year deals. But I do not know if that is possible given their previous contracts.

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06-14-2012, 09:37 AM
  #291
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Can someone explain to me how we can get Comeau for cheaper than his 2.5? I still do not understand this.
That is easy (in theory), just have him agree to a contract cheaper than 2.5 million.

Comeau and his agent will recognize his market value and the fact it has gone down because of this season. I think Comeau might be willing to take less money on a 2 year deal in order to re-establish himself. I think 2 years/$3-3.5 million is something he would agree to.

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06-14-2012, 10:44 AM
  #292
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That is easy (in theory), just have him agree to a contract cheaper than 2.5 million.

Comeau and his agent will recognize his market value and the fact it has gone down because of this season. I think Comeau might be willing to take less money on a 2 year deal in order to re-establish himself. I think 2 years/$3-3.5 million is something he would agree to.
Well, in theory then, if both guys would take 1-2 year deals at a discount then I could see a fit.

If management is confident enough in our prospect depth (ex. Aliu, Nemisz) then we might be better off just signing one of them or neither.

I just see Aliu as a huge ? and Nemisz is not an NHL player. Nemisz had some chemistry with Sven. But it seems like everyone and their dog could find chemistry with him.

Either way, both of these guys have upside and could be had for cheap (in theory) on short term contracts. Pretty much no risk signings that could provide solid results.

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06-14-2012, 10:52 AM
  #293
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Maybe he could play 4th line, i think it would be better for his career to play in the AHL next year though.
Agreed, Max showed zero progression from the end of last year to this one. He needs some time with Troy.

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06-14-2012, 10:56 AM
  #294
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It's not a matter of young guy, it's a matter of skill guys. In my honest opinion, Flames don't have a ton of skill, the three guys I named should have the most "skill", pure talent with the puck on the team.
Jerome's not a skill player, he's a shooter, so is Cammy. Olli is so, so... and Tanguay had a drop off from an amazing S.O last season.

When I think of pure skill, guys who should be able to do some neat things with a puck and beat a goalie 1 on 1, it's the three I named there. Backlund hasn't shown it, but there were flashes where he was trying to make a move instead of a wrister too tight in (see Iginla S.O attempts).

Of course Detroit is amazing, what's the running theme here? Skill.
Dats + Zett is 1-2 punch anyone would want going into a best of three.
I beg to differ. I understand what you mean by "skill." Tanguay has the most skill of any player we can ice including the guys you mentioned. Stempniak has more skill than Backlund.

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06-14-2012, 11:37 AM
  #295
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Agreed, Max showed zero progression from the end of last year to this one. He needs some time with Troy.
Max Reinhart?

I'd say he showed alot of progression.

Do you mean because he didn't have a large point increase?

Kootenay lost what little firepower they had once Eakin graduated, they leaned on Max for absolutely everything and he delivered incredibly.

The only supporting cast he really had to speak of was his brother Sam.

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06-14-2012, 12:11 PM
  #296
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One word. Confidence.

At this point in his career he has yet to prove to himself that he can make those plays and show his offensive creativity at the highest level. He may never grow to find that confidence either, but if he does he certainly has the skillset to be a highly productive NHL player.
And that's all you need to sum it up. For a young guy, confidence is everything.

A small detail but Christensen had signed with a KHL team, HC Lev Praha.
prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/06/05/minnesotas-christensen-signs-in-khl/

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06-14-2012, 12:29 PM
  #297
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Max Reinhart?

I'd say he showed alot of progression.

Do you mean because he didn't have a large point increase?

Kootenay lost what little firepower they had once Eakin graduated, they leaned on Max for absolutely everything and he delivered incredibly.

The only supporting cast he really had to speak of was his brother Sam.
Completely disagree. I get to see a lot of him. He played with Ismond and Czerwenka for most of the games I watched, he didn't even play with Sam except on the PP, so you're right on the linemates thing even though they were the best wingers on the team. But he didn't noticeably improve in any areas from the end of last year in my view. I noticed a big improvement in Ferland's skating and hockey sense, but nothing for Max.

I'm not saying Max was awful, but he didn't progress from the end of last year to the end of this one. If you remember last year he was pretty much doing everything for them at that time and was pretty dominant through the playoffs. He was actually noticeably less effective this year than he was in the playoff run last year.

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06-14-2012, 01:24 PM
  #298
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I beg to differ. I understand what you mean by "skill." Tanguay has the most skill of any player we can ice including the guys you mentioned. Stempniak has more skill than Backlund.
Agreed with Tanguay, watch him take a huge leap this year in his play...

Stempniak is just a pure shooter. I think Backlund is a more skilled player, he has just yet to show it on the big stage.

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06-14-2012, 01:39 PM
  #299
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Agreed with Tanguay, watch him take a huge leap this year in his play...

Stempniak is just a pure shooter. I think Backlund is a more skilled player, he has just yet to show it on the big stage.
Stempniak is more than just a "shooter." He can dangle, he's our 2nd best one on one player behind Glencross IMO and Glencross is only better because he can just blow by guys wide. Stempniak has a pretty slick toe drag.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_G4R2...feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOIMDWNMlLs

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06-14-2012, 02:32 PM
  #300
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Originally Posted by Double Dion View Post
Stempniak is more than just a "shooter." He can dangle, he's our 2nd best one on one player behind Glencross IMO and Glencross is only better because he can just blow by guys wide. Stempniak has a pretty slick toe drag.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_G4R2...feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOIMDWNMlLs
Completly agree with the toe drag. I saw him pull it out numerous times this past season. Some nights it got telegraphed, but when people are caught off guard he made them look silly.

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