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Jay McClement’s days with Avalanche likely over

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Old
06-14-2012, 12:09 AM
  #76
TheFactor
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im pretty sure he just wants to go back to st.loius

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06-14-2012, 12:28 AM
  #77
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not really shocking. i was assuming he'd price himself out of town.

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06-14-2012, 12:30 AM
  #78
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Well, I for one am looking forward to seeing Brad Malone earn the 4th line center job out of camp.


I always kinda thought that McClemment would probably be asking for a bit too much money for the Avs tastes and I would bet he wants to be on a team where he is not behind 3 potentially elite centers who chew up a ton of ice time. Maybe its just posturing by both parties. I for one thought that Jones was going to be a gonner, and then the Avs turned around and chased him hard it seems. Could be a similar thing here, but dunno.

The Avs do not have to worry about the cap, but there is some simple dollars and cents stuff here. In the grand scheme, the better investment (which hopefully will be made) is to take McClemment's money and putting it towards a defensive end upgrade over O'Brien, Wilson, and/or O'Byrne.


Last edited by Drury_Sakic: 06-14-2012 at 12:35 AM.
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06-14-2012, 12:38 AM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mars Volchenkov View Post
I love McClement, but there's a limit to what you can pay him.

That being said, the Avs don't have anyone in the system that can replace what he brings, so they better have a plan B.
They do, his name is Brad Malone!

But in all seriousness, if Malone can work on his speed and increase his confidence over the summer and in camp, he is a more than capable 3rd/4th line center who can work the PK, play a physical game, and be above average at faceoffs. Malone did not play with his full bad-assness in his shots at the big show last year. When he plays with some reckless abandon, he can be a force on the ice, though he will never score like he did in college at the NHL level. The guy could be the perfect 3rd/4th line center if molded properly and allowed to play with an edge. I think he could have Downie like upside.

I would also guess this is a sign that the Avs are officially abandoning the Duchene on the wing experiment.


Last edited by Drury_Sakic: 06-14-2012 at 12:45 AM.
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06-14-2012, 01:29 AM
  #80
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McClement probably wants closer to third line money and minutes whereas in reality he needs to be a 4th line/PKer. The loss of McClement will definitely be felt, both on the PK and if one of our other 3 centers is hurt because McClement does have the ability to legitimize a defensive line basically on his own (Mcleod-McClement-Kobasew looked great where as put Olver in there and I doubt you get close to the same results).

That said, we have 3 very talented centers who all seem to play their best getting around 20 minutes of icetime a game. Other teams best players PK (LA and Detroit for example) so why not Staz and O'reilly and Lando too? It helps keep them engaged in all aspects of the game and make their impact felt all over the ice. If we're going to roll all 3 centers, our 4th line has to be content playing very limited minutes.

That said they should still find a cheaper vet to plug that hole rather than simply plug it with an Olver or Malone.

I would be happy with allocating more ice time to our top 3 lines if only Duchene's line could be solidified. I don't have faith in a combination of Olver, Mueller or Hejduk on his wing going into next season, that line is going to be soft on the forecheck and defensively suspect

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06-14-2012, 01:30 AM
  #81
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We're obviously saving that money for Parise or Suter


But seriously, maybe the FO is actually looking at shelling out the $$$ for one of them?

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06-14-2012, 01:44 AM
  #82
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Forget Parise and Suter, if McClement/O'brien leaving is due to money then its probably more similar to the "trade liles sign hejda" type move than a big blockbuster move.

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06-14-2012, 01:46 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihiliste View Post
Forget Parise and Suter, if McClement/O'brien leaving is due to money then its probably more similar to the "trade liles sign hejda" type move than a big blockbuster move.
O'Brien is leaving due to money?

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06-14-2012, 03:36 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STEVE RANDESKOGAH View Post
O'Brien is leaving due to money?
Considering he played on the 1st pair and 2nd pair, and had almost a career year for him, it wouldn't be out of the question for him to ask $2.5-3.5m and the Avs won't pay that (I would assume)

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06-14-2012, 04:09 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by hek View Post
McLeod and Hunwick aren't overpaid.
If Hunwick's being paid money, he's overpaid.

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06-14-2012, 04:46 AM
  #86
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To anyone who suggested Mitchell as replacement for Jay, Mitchell sucks.

Brad Malone won a grand total of 12.5% of his faceoffs last season in the NHL.

Olver won 36.3% of his faceoffs.

If we have either Malone or Olver on our 4th line we can't use them for defensive zone starts because of their inability to win faceoffs, which means more defensive zone starts both for O'Reilly and Stastny.

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06-14-2012, 05:09 AM
  #87
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Crazy. I tweeted the prediction that JayMac would leave the team about an hour before Dater published his article. Just had that very strong feeling out of a sudden. Maybe I'm psychic. On the other hand it probably wasn't a difficult prediction to make.
I don't like these news one bit, though. McClement is a player you just can't replace easily. I even think he can be pretty good on offense if he gets to play with the fitting winger. Kobasew and McClement had some great moments for example. Also, I hate to lose players to FA without getting anything in return.

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06-14-2012, 07:54 AM
  #88
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Unfortunate.

His faceoff and special teams skills will be missed.

Sounds like Malone has a better chance at making the team, barring any additions from free agency. However, as someone else pointed out, his faceoff percentage was pretty abysmal.

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06-14-2012, 08:57 AM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nzap View Post
Considering he played on the 1st pair and 2nd pair, and had almost a career year for him, it wouldn't be out of the question for him to ask $2.5-3.5m and the Avs won't pay that (I would assume)
He played on the first and second pairing out of necessity, not ability. If he asks for that amount of money management is wise to show him the door.

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06-14-2012, 09:05 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Avs_19 View Post
Using three of your top forwards on the PK is a mistake. Especially when you're not a great offensive team to begin with.
I disagree to some extent.

Take a look at the Kings PK this playoffs.

Kopitar, Richards, Brown and Carter all had quite a bit of time on the PK and they had the best of any team.

Even while looking at a bunch of other teams, a lot of their top line players had quite a bit of time killing penalties.

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06-14-2012, 10:02 AM
  #91
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Color me absolutely shocked!

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Originally Posted by ManOnTheMoon View Post
My problem is less with letting McClement go, and more about letting our McClement go. We need a "go to" defensive forward like McClement. Pahlsson and Moore would be good comparisons. We need a guy like that, not necessarily McClement. Stoll would be good, but as another poster mentioned, he'll definitely get paid come FA. I hope they look out in FA for an answer, and don't shoehorn an Olver into the role.
As has been mentioned, there are quite a few of those types of players that are going to be available. Halpern or even Scott Nichol* would be fine for just 1 year playing 4th line minutes at about $1M-$1.5M until Malone or someone else is more seasoned and ready to go next year. (*not a big fan of his cheap shots though but he's a &*#$^&*% to play against)

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Originally Posted by Avsare1 View Post
Wonder what we could get for McC's rights? Obviously not much, but it'd be better to trade him for a 7th then let him walk for free right?

Also, Winnik is a UFA. Wonder if he would have any interest in comming back?
Depending on the interest, they could get up to a 3rd or 4th if several teams really want him but I bet he stays put until July 1st.

Winnik is going to want "McClement-type" money!!! Anyways, that ship has sailed.

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Originally Posted by bohlmeister View Post
Well this is a thread about Jay McClement leaving. And people are talking about Winnik replacing the PK hole that losing McC will create. So it has nothing to do with Lando and O'Reilly's offense. And it has nothing to do with Winnik's obvious lack of offensive skills. He was a good PK'er and was good at playing a simple game. He would be a good option on the 4th line, with 3rd line potential. I hardly think anyone is interested in seeing him play 23 minutes a night like Sacco had him playing this season.
Winnik is a winger...not a centerman. The guy the Avs will eventually get to replace JayMac, will need to be strong on faceoffs, a good PKer and solid defensively. No need to break the bank though.

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Originally Posted by BoxOfChocolates View Post
Ugh.
Not sure why that reply in direct response to Evan Brophy. I thought he actually did quite well in his 3 games with the Avs. While a small sampe, he was still able to be at 60% on faceoffs playing very limited minutes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow1 View Post
Like I was talking about in the Trade thread the other day, you just can't pay a guy like Jay McClement top dollar when you're a low revenue team with three centers ahead of him on the depth chart.

Dominic Moore made $1.2 million dollars last season ($1.1 million cap hit). While McClement is certainly better defensively and probably better overall, the difference between the two is not the rumored money McClement wanted. Nor is it the difference between Colorado making or missing the playoffs.
This.

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Originally Posted by Drury_Sakic View Post
I would also guess this is a sign that the Avs are officially abandoning the Duchene on the wing experiment.
I would also have to guess that someone from upper management slapped Sacco around until he got it in his thick head that it wasn't working. Geez.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nzap View Post
Considering he played on the 1st pair and 2nd pair, and had almost a career year for him, it wouldn't be out of the question for him to ask $2.5-3.5m and the Avs won't pay that (I would assume)
That sounds like a reasonable assumption. Regardless of the "FIT" on this team, I don't blame O'Brien for going after a pay day, if I was his agent, I would advise him to do the very same thing. However, this is a player who is going to have trouble living up to that contract and depending where he signs (I'm gonna say Philadelphia) it could turn out to be a bad decision for him in the long run. Oh well, at least he'll be rich-er.

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06-14-2012, 10:06 AM
  #92
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I disagree to some extent.

Take a look at the Kings PK this playoffs.

Kopitar, Richards, Brown and Carter all had quite a bit of time on the PK and they had the best of any team.

Even while looking at a bunch of other teams, a lot of their top line players had quite a bit of time killing penalties.
I agree with Landeskogien.

Especially on the Avs, when we have ZERO forwards playing even 20 minutes a game, you can certainly afford to play your best players on the PK.

Obviously, in a case where New Jersey plays Kovalchuk 30 minutes per game, using him on the PK is a bit of a stretch and you might want to keep him fresh but on the Avs it's not that big of a deal.

I'll say it again, when Hitchcock took over from Davis Payne, he said he would let his best players BE his best players and play them in all situations. Look at the result. They didn't make any changes to their players, Hitchcock just used them to their full potential and they took off.

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06-14-2012, 10:10 AM
  #93
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Brad Malone took eight faceoffs as a rookie. I can't even begin to describe how taken out of context using that percentage is.

An interesting percentage: 44.5%. That would be Jay McClement's faceoff percentage while short handed, as he won only 118 out of 256 draws while on the penalty kill.

Paul Stastny, historically, has had his best seasons while logging high amounts of penalty kill time and overall ice time. It'll be interesting to see what kind of season he has if Joe Sacco relies on him more.

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06-14-2012, 10:13 AM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow1 View Post
Brad Malone took eight faceoffs as a rookie. I can't even begin to describe how taken out of context using that percentage is.

An interesting percentage: 44.5%. That would be Jay McClement's faceoff percentage while short handed, as he won only 118 out of 256 draws while on the penalty kill.

Paul Stastny, historically, has had his best seasons while logging high amounts of penalty kill time and overall ice time. It'll be interesting to see what kind of season he has if Joe Sacco relies on him more.
Sucko will probably start him off on the 4th line.

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06-14-2012, 10:20 AM
  #95
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I am getting the feeling that Dater is just talking out of his *** again.

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06-14-2012, 10:23 AM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow1 View Post
Brad Malone took eight faceoffs as a rookie. I can't even begin to describe how taken out of context using that percentage is.

An interesting percentage: 44.5%. That would be Jay McClement's faceoff percentage while short handed, as he won only 118 out of 256 draws while on the penalty kill.

Paul Stastny, historically, has had his best seasons while logging high amounts of penalty kill time and overall ice time. It'll be interesting to see what kind of season he has if Joe Sacco relies on him more.
I saw a handful of LEM games this past season, he wasn't any better there either.

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06-14-2012, 10:24 AM
  #97
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I am getting the feeling that Dater is just talking out of his *** again.
No he isn't, Jones isn't re-signed isn't he?

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06-14-2012, 10:26 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by dmitri View Post
I am getting the feeling that Dater is just talking out of his *** again.
I doubt it. It makes too much sense this time. McClement probably wants to play a bigger role than the one of the 4th center. Also, his days on the team would be numbered anyway because of Malone, Hishon and Sgarbossa all hoping to make the team at some point in the future.

Last but not least, the other UFA's (but SOB who hopefully won't return) re-signed early.

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06-14-2012, 10:28 AM
  #99
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Not that I agree with giving the 4th line C spot to Olver or Malone but rookie year FO% are usually low. McClement was at 47%. Crosby was at 45%. Duchene at 44%. Just a few example.

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06-14-2012, 10:34 AM
  #100
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Ok so here is a list of UFA replacements, in order of my preference :

1. Burish,C [29yrs old] 19PTS 55.78% Faceoffs
2011-12 Salary/Cap Hit : $1.3M

2. Halpern, C [36yrs old] 16PTS 58.40% Faceoffs
2011-12 Salary/Cap Hit : $2M

3. Nichol, C [37yrs old] 8PTS 57.56% Faceoffs
2011-12 Salary/Cap Hit : $700K

4. Pahlsson, C [34yrs old] 17PTS 52.63% Faceoffs
2011-12 Salary/Cap Hit : $2.65M

*5. Konopka, C [31yrs old] 5PTS 58.88% Faceoffs
2011-12 Salary/Cap Hit : $700K

I've excluded players that would probably want/need more than just 4th line C minutes. Each of these players would cost much less and wouldn't need to play as much as JayMac has this past year. You can then use your 4th line as your true 'energy-big hit-take your opponent off their game' instead of using it to shutdown other teams. We have a young team and redistributing that kind of defensive assignment shouldn't be an issue when you're rolling 3 good lines.

* I know a lot of people don't like this guy but he's essentially a David Koci who can actually win a fight and wins faceoffs. Obviously, you don't want to have him playing a lot of minutes on any given night. Ideally he plays between 5 and 8 minutes instead of giving your 4th line between 7 and 14 mins per game. Let's face it, with McLeod and Kobasew the likely wingers, why would we want them playing more than 10 minutes per game anyways?!?!? [I laugh but I forgot, it's Joe Sacco...]

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