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Offseason Thread 2012 II: Offseason Harder

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06-14-2012, 09:45 AM
  #26
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It would be an absolutely horrible off season for the Preds if they lose Suter to UFA and trade their captain and best D man in the league away. How would they explain this to their fan base. They want to win now and keep the pieces in place for a long time. I wouldn't mind Weber on the Flyers(would LOVE it), but I really just don't see that happening.

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06-14-2012, 09:46 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coutsiephan View Post
I still doubt that Couturier is going anywhere ..even for Weber. Flyers ..particularly Snider are way too enamored with him and rightfully so. Snider probably gave orders not to let him go regardless......that's how he operates as we have learned.
I'm not really saying they will do it, I'm just saying I would. I assume Nashville would want even more than that for Weber considering an offer sheet would bring them likely several first rounders. I doubt the Flyers go after Weber and I doubt Nashville has any real interest in dealing him, unless they are blown away. He's still an RFA so Weber doesn't have as much a say as someone like Suter does. If Nashville wants Weber and is willing to pay whatever another team is willing to pay, then he is staying put, regardless of where he wants to go (unless of course he then holds out and demands a trade, which I don't see a guy like him doing especially on a team like Nashville that players seem to enjoy playing for).

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06-14-2012, 09:47 AM
  #28
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@manayunkmike: Looks like Nash could be a three horse race. #Flyers still have best offer on the table. #Rangers still pushing. #Sharks easing in.

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06-14-2012, 10:40 AM
  #29
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Bobby Holik rips the Flyers...

http://holikonhockey.com/bobby-blog/.../#comment-6116

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06-14-2012, 10:54 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
So you'd Like the flyers to not beat the rangers again for about 3 or 4 years?
Rick Nash gaurantees nothing.

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06-14-2012, 10:56 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by healthyscratch View Post
@manayunkmike: Looks like Nash could be a three horse race. #Flyers still have best offer on the table. #Rangers still pushing. #Sharks easing in.
I'm not buying anything these two guys (also ***************) until someone sheds some light as to who they are. Until then I'm going to assume it is just some kid spreading rumors.

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06-14-2012, 10:59 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by healthyscratch View Post
Meh. That's just his opinion. Teams trade eventual Cup winners every single year. Big deal.

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06-14-2012, 11:03 AM
  #33
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Saw some discussion about the preds losing Weber and Suter, so I thought I'd say where that thought process comes from.

If Suter is really leaving, Poile will likely be asking Weber what his long-term plans are. Weber is an RFA, and if he is going to just sign a 1 year deal, then walk to as a UFA after next season, there is no reason to keep him for a year and lose him for nothing. The idea would be to quick start a rebuild and contend again in three years.

If, and only if, Suter is walking and Weber is planning on doing the same, I 100% approve of trading Weber NOW instead of waiting and letting him go for nothing. I think the Preds should try to get a deal like Couturier+JVR/Voracek so we are back to decency in a few short years.

Wilson-Smith-JVR
Couturier-Fisher-Erat
Bourque-Legwand-SK
Halischuk-Spaling-Latta/Watson

UFA/Trade-Josi
Blum-Ekholm
Ellis-UFA

Rinne

Obviously the best case scenario is keeping Weber, but we would rather trade him for two great players than lose him for nothing.

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06-14-2012, 11:04 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by healthyscratch View Post
Holik may have a point about the Flyers thrusting players into roles that may not befit them. I truly believe that with Richards. As I pointed out when he was with the Flyers ..he was thrust into the captaincy when he wasn't necessarily ready and he was deferring to other players like Gagne saying they were more deserving. Then you had the idiot coach deferring to management and agreeing he was ready to be the next Bobby Clark and pushed him into a role he wasn't ready for..at least from an off-ice perspective (locker room, media etc).

Richards is a "one of the guys" player..his role in LA is perfect hence the success. In interviews you can tell Richards is an in the background kind of guy...don't know how many times in one of those recent pieces on the NBCsports or NHL network he's said he's not a big change kind of guy..he doesn't take too well to change. Philly just became not the ideal place for him anymore IMO....to much drama although maybe he and Carter beared some responsibility too as has been discussed/argued ad nauseaum.

Carter was a similar case but not as much as Richards. Carter was never going to be Malkin and Richards was never going to be Crosby yet we made them the faces of the franchise like those two. It was not the right way to go about it. They needed to be very good ancillary players like they are in LA but that was hard to do given their contracts and money and how we didn't have much in the way of prospects and cap space. No doubt management bears a great responsibility for how those two were handled but those two players are not without their own faults. Fact is for those two and for management is was time to separate and take different paths. The trades needed to happen for the benefit of everybody...period.

Ironically enough it's worked out better for Carter and Richards thus far but again I give credit to management for waking up and engaging in a paradigm change of sorts. They didn't remain stubborn. This is why I have decided to judge them forward since that fateful trade last summer. I still think the Flyers will be just fine but yes management will need to not regress any further..they took a step back to take a few steps forward in the coming years but a few dumb moves and we can be back to square one. This offseason's moves and next year will dictate whether they can win it by years 4 or 5 in a best case scenario. We shall see.

Other than that point that Holik made..the biggest point is on his head. Never liked the guy and he sounds dorky when he's on NHL network as an analyst. Didn't play dorky though..guy was a moose on the ice.


Last edited by FreshPerspective: 06-14-2012 at 11:11 AM. Reason: clarify
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Old
06-14-2012, 11:06 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Top 6 Spaling View Post
Saw some discussion about the preds losing Weber and Suter, so I thought I'd say where that thought process comes from.

If Suter is really leaving, Poile will likely be asking Weber what his long-term plans are. Weber is an RFA, and if he is going to just sign a 1 year deal, then walk to as a UFA after next season, there is no reason to keep him for a year and lose him for nothing. The idea would be to quick start a rebuild and contend again in three years.

If, and only if, Suter is walking and Weber is planning on doing the same, I 100% approve of trading Weber NOW instead of waiting and letting him go for nothing. I think the Preds should try to get a deal like Couturier+JVR/Voracek so we are back to decency in a few short years.

Wilson-Smith-JVR
Couturier-Fisher-Erat
Bourque-Legwand-SK
Halischuk-Spaling-Latta/Watson

UFA/Trade-Josi
Blum-Ekholm
Ellis-UFA

Rinne

Obviously the best case scenario is keeping Weber, but we would rather trade him for two great players than lose him for nothing.

I truthfully don't think Couturier would be on the table, especially for a RFA Weber. Maybe if he was signed, but even then I'm skeptical of that.

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06-14-2012, 11:12 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sh0otnSc0re View Post
I truthfully don't think Couturier would be on the table, especially for a RFA Weber. Maybe if he was signed, but even then I'm skeptical of that.
Schenn+JVR+Mez?

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06-14-2012, 11:14 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Top 6 Spaling View Post
Saw some discussion about the preds losing Weber and Suter, so I thought I'd say where that thought process comes from.

If Suter is really leaving, Poile will likely be asking Weber what his long-term plans are. Weber is an RFA, and if he is going to just sign a 1 year deal, then walk to as a UFA after next season, there is no reason to keep him for a year and lose him for nothing. The idea would be to quick start a rebuild and contend again in three years.

If, and only if, Suter is walking and Weber is planning on doing the same, I 100% approve of trading Weber NOW instead of waiting and letting him go for nothing. I think the Preds should try to get a deal like Couturier+JVR/Voracek so we are back to decency in a few short years.

Wilson-Smith-JVR
Couturier-Fisher-Erat
Bourque-Legwand-SK
Halischuk-Spaling-Latta/Watson

UFA/Trade-Josi
Blum-Ekholm
Ellis-UFA

Rinne

Obviously the best case scenario is keeping Weber, but we would rather trade him for two great players than lose him for nothing.
I would do Couts+Mez plus two first rounders for Weber in a heart beat. As long as the Flyers are able to discuss and agree on a contract extension before the trade is finalized.

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06-14-2012, 11:15 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Top 6 Spaling View Post
Schenn+JVR+Mez?
Same issue--it is too much to give up for RFA Weber. If he's willing to give the Flyers a number (presumably one that Nashville woulnd't be comfortable with themselves) than it might work as a framework for a deal--though it seems a bit heavy--three (young) roster players.

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06-14-2012, 11:17 AM
  #39
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Young NHL ready guys are much more preferable than picks. The core of Josi, Wilson, Ellis, Smith, Blum, Bourque, Ekhlolm, etc. Is going to hit their prime in 2-3 years, just like JVR/Voracek/Schenn/Couturier, but a pick, even a 1st, wont hit prime for about 5-6

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06-14-2012, 11:17 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Top 6 Spaling View Post
Schenn+JVR+Mez?
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
I would do Couts+Mez plus two first rounders for Weber in a heart beat. As long as the Flyers are able to discuss and agree on a contract extension before the trade is finalized.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
Same issue--it is too much to give up for RFA Weber. If he's willing to give the Flyers a number (presumably one that Nashville woulnd't be comfortable with themselves) than it might work as a framework for a deal--though it seems a bit heavy--three (young) roster players.
Just going to go ahead and say, Jeh put it very well once more. There's really no way possible I see Schenn or Couts in a deal if it's just for the rights of Weber.

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06-14-2012, 11:19 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Top 6 Spaling View Post
Young NHL ready guys are much more preferable than picks. The core of Josi, Wilson, Ellis, Smith, Blum, Bourque, Ekhlolm, etc. Is going to hit their prime in 2-3 years, just like JVR/Voracek/Schenn/Couturier, but a pick, even a 1st, wont hit prime for about 5-6
Oh trust me -- we understand. The thing is, if we lose out on Weber & get just the picks for him it set's us back. We can't afford to give up JVR/Schenn or Couts/Mez just for the rights of Weber with no deal in place / permission for a number from him.

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06-14-2012, 11:19 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Sh0otnSc0re View Post
Just going to go ahead and say, Jeh put it very well once more. There's really no way possible I see Schenn or Couts in a deal if it's just for the rights of Weber.
I agree, but if we work a deal with Poile like we did before with Hartnell and Kimmo, then I would be willing to put them into the mix for him.

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06-14-2012, 11:20 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Sh0otnSc0re View Post
I truthfully don't think Couturier would be on the table, especially for a RFA Weber. Maybe if he was signed, but even then I'm skeptical of that.
And if he was traded, why would he be playing left wing?

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06-14-2012, 11:20 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
Same issue--it is too much to give up for RFA Weber. If he's willing to give the Flyers a number (presumably one that Nashville woulnd't be comfortable with themselves) than it might work as a framework for a deal--though it seems a bit heavy--three (young) roster players.
If we were provided a 72 hour negotiating window prior to completing the deal, I would do JVR + Schenn + Mez. At a minimum, you would want assurances that Weber is open to negotiating a new deal before you give up that kind of return.

Weber is easily the most important and valuable piece the Flyers could acquire, especially with the number of young forwards we have on the team right now and the potential of some in the organization (Cousins, Noebels, Akeson, etc).

If we could acquire Weber, it would not surprise me to see the Flyers draft Hertl if he makes it to us. The Flyers success in drafting forwards in the first round over the last decade is simply unparalleled.

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Old
06-14-2012, 11:22 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Sh0otnSc0re View Post
Just going to go ahead and say, Jeh put it very well once more. There's really no way possible I see Schenn or Couts in a deal if it's just for the rights of Weber.
I know sign and trade trades are rare in the NHL but thats what it would take to trade a top end prospect.
I still dont believe Nashville is trading Weber. They too have a ton of cap space. they may have little choice to let Suter walk, but I really will be shocked if both are gone this summer.

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06-14-2012, 11:22 AM
  #46
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And if he was traded, why would he be playing left wing?
I was just throwing together a roster really fast, not thinking too much on it. God knows it would look different than that in 3 years anyways.

I understand the trepidation about Weber being an RFA. Let's hypothetically say Weber is allowed to negotiate first and sign long term. What's the max trade value then?

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06-14-2012, 11:23 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
I know sign and trade trades are rare in the NHL but thats what it would take to trade a top end prospect.
I still dont believe Nashville is trading Weber. They too have a ton of cap space. they may have little choice to let Suter walk, but I really will be shocked if both are gone this summer.
As I said above, if Weber tells Poile his plan is to sign a one year deal and then walk for nothing, we'd rather trade him and get assets back.

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06-14-2012, 11:24 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Top 6 Spaling View Post
I was just thorwing together a roster really fast, not thinking too much on it. God knows it would look different than that in 3 years anyways.

I understand the trepidation about Weber being an RFA. Let's hypothetically say Weber is allowed to negotiate first and sign long term. What's the max trade value then?
Me personally I would give up anyone on the Roster not including Giroux

Probably something like

Couts
Mez
1st
3rd

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06-14-2012, 11:25 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
And if he was traded, why would he be playing left wing?
Didn't even catch onto that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
If we were provided a 72 hour negotiating window prior to completing the deal, I would do JVR + Schenn + Mez. At a minimum, you would want assurances that Weber is open to negotiating a new deal before you give up that kind of return.

Weber is easily the most important and valuable piece the Flyers could acquire, especially with the number of young forwards we have on the team right now and the potential of some in the organization (Cousins, Noebels, Akeson, etc).

If we could acquire Weber, it would not surprise me to see the Flyers draft Hertl if he makes it to us. The Flyers success in drafting forwards in the first round over the last decade is simply unparalleled.
I don't see it as a possible trade with JUST a window. To give up that much, I think I'd want a number/price.

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06-14-2012, 11:31 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
I know sign and trade trades are rare in the NHL but thats what it would take to trade a top end prospect.
I still dont believe Nashville is trading Weber. They too have a ton of cap space. they may have little choice to let Suter walk, but I really will be shocked if both are gone this summer.
Nashville doesn't have a lot of leverage. Weber's qualifying offer is what, 7.5 million? Unlike other RFA's (who have much lower QOs), he doesn't have a huge monetary incentive to sign long-term this year.

I agree with the poster's premise: Nashville cannot allow Suter and Weber to walk in consecutive years. While they could theoretically wait until the trade deadline, that puts them in a trick position in a few ways: 1) if they are in the playoff hunt, as they should be, it would be difficult to trade Weber, even though he could walk two months later; 2) Weber's 7.5 million cap hit (assuming a one-year deal) would be difficult for many teams to take on mid-season.

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