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Old
06-13-2012, 11:34 PM
  #101
Lonny Bohonos
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Originally Posted by ahmon View Post
I still think the main problem with kesler is that the line lacks a good playmaker.

The second a player is able to give and go with him a bit and he will come out of his "commando" style.

And its no surprise once kesler/burrows don't get the results they lose their cool and do stupid stuff.

Lack of leadership. And lack of maturity on the part of burrows/kesler,

Do people not find it the least bit concerning we are constantly looking for the "right fit" for Kesler?

As for leadership Kelser is supposed to be one of the leaders. We shouldnt have to worry about whether kesler is mature or not. Its expected as a leader.

I was in the camp thining Kesler would be a better leader than Hank, when it came to choosing the C. Not so anymore. Hank proved me wrong.

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06-13-2012, 11:43 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Lonny Bohonos View Post
Do people not find it the least bit concerning we are constantly looking for the "right fit" for Kesler?

As for leadership Kelser is supposed to be one of the leaders. We shouldnt have to worry about whether kesler is mature or not. Its expected as a leader.

I was in the camp thining Kesler would be a better leader than Hank, when it came to choosing the C. Not so anymore. Hank proved me wrong.
Its a bit concerning, but conventionally your center is usually the playmaker.

if you look at kesler, hes a better scorer than a playmaker.

We are constantly looking for the right fit for him. But yet we are constantly recycling guys like raymond, higgins, booth, sammuelsson, tambellini etc. Really when was the last time Kesler played with even an upper level playmaker?

Sundin/demitra- and kesler excelled on the wing with those guys.

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06-13-2012, 11:55 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by ahmon View Post
Its a bit concerning, but conventionally your center is usually the playmaker.

if you look at kesler, hes a better scorer than a playmaker.

We are constantly looking for the right fit for him. But yet we are constantly recycling guys like raymond, higgins, booth, sammuelsson, tambellini etc. Really when was the last time Kesler played with even an upper level playmaker?

Sundin/demitra- and kesler excelled on the wing with those guys.
Whens the last time Kelser made others around him better?

The issue as I see it is not that hes not a "playmaker" but that he always seems to have issue meshing with others.

As the leader its your job to make that happen. Its your job to tweak your game and communicate what is needed so that others can tweak their game.


We went through the same process of finding wingers for the Sedins but they have had much more success at making others around them better.

The Sedins rely much much less on the "I'll do it my bloody self" attitude that Kesler seems to struggle with.

A team is about trusting your team mates. In order for someone to prove to you that you can trust them you first have to let go a trust them.

Kesler seems to have a short "fuse" when it comes to trusting others. Who knows why?


AV was probably referring to this when he commented on Kesler using his linemates better. To which Kesler takes offense to it.


There is a lot of myth related to Kesler not the least which is Beast Mode. How many times have we seen beast mode?

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06-14-2012, 12:03 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Lonny Bohonos View Post
Whens the last time Kelser made others around him better?

The issue as I see it is not that hes not a "playmaker" but that he always seems to have issue meshing with others.

As the leader its your job to make that happen. Its your job to tweak your game and communicate what is needed so that others can tweak their game.


We went through the same process of finding wingers for the Sedins but they have had much more success at making others around them better.

The Sedins rely much much less on the "I'll do it my bloody self" attitude that Kesler seems to struggle with.

A team is about trusting your team mates. In order for someone to prove to you that you can trust them you first have to let go a trust them.

Kesler seems to have a short "fuse" when it comes to trusting others. Who knows why?


AV was probably referring to this when he commented on Kesler using his linemates better. To which Kesler takes offense to it.


There is a lot of myth related to Kesler not the least which is Beast Mode. How many times have we seen beast mode?

I don't see kesler not trusting the sedins on the pp. He doesn't take bad shots, and he allows the twins to make their plays.

At the end of the day, kesler is a scorer and the twins are playmakers.


If your linemate is booth, and all he does is speed down the wing and take shots that hit the goalies logo, what is kesler suppose to do? Especially if kesler does not have elite vision.

Sedins are a totally different story. Both Danny/Hank are great playmakers. Of course they don't have that "ill do it myself". Hank has actually pass up open nets. If anything, if they have more of that selfish attitude, their games would be even more dynamic.

If the team brings in an elite playmaker with kesler, and he still does not trust the guy, then I agree with you.

So far, it hasn't happened yet.

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06-14-2012, 12:22 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by ahmon View Post
I don't see kesler not trusting the sedins on the pp. He doesn't take bad shots, and he allows the twins to make their plays.

At the end of the day, kesler is a scorer and the twins are playmakers.


If your linemate is booth, and all he does is speed down the wing and take shots that hit the goalies logo, what is kesler suppose to do? Especially if kesler does not have elite vision.

Sedins are a totally different story. Both Danny/Hank are great playmakers. Of course they don't have that "ill do it myself". Hank has actually pass up open nets. If anything, if they have more of that selfish attitude, their games would be even more dynamic.

If the team brings in an elite playmaker with kesler, and he still does not trust the guy, then I agree with you.

So far, it hasn't happened yet.
I personally don't think that line needs an elite playmaker as much as it needs Kesler to start balancing out his shoot/pass ratio. In 09-10 Kesler was primarily a distributor with Raymond and Samuelsson/Burrows, he had an impressive 50 assists that year, so he's fully capable of making plays he just has to make a conscious effort to hold onto the puck and look for the open man. I think Kesler is a much more dangerous player if he's not trying to be any one thing (ie shooter, playmaker, net presence) but a combination of all of them...far less predictability and much better use of all his talents, not just individual talents.

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06-14-2012, 12:38 AM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahmon View Post
I don't see kesler not trusting the sedins on the pp. He doesn't take bad shots, and he allows the twins to make their plays.

At the end of the day, kesler is a scorer and the twins are playmakers.


If your linemate is booth, and all he does is speed down the wing and take shots that hit the goalies logo, what is kesler suppose to do? Especially if kesler does not have elite vision.

Sedins are a totally different story. Both Danny/Hank are great playmakers. Of course they don't have that "ill do it myself". Hank has actually pass up open nets. If anything, if they have more of that selfish attitude, their games would be even more dynamic.

If the team brings in an elite playmaker with kesler, and he still does not trust the guy, then I agree with you.

So far, it hasn't happened yet.
Adjust his game accordingly. I cant say what exactly he should do since each event of Booth streaking down the wing is unique.


I dont have any issues with Booths game. He is what he is and the nucks and Kesler knew that going into the trade.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Canucker View Post
I personally don't think that line needs an elite playmaker as much as it needs Kesler to start balancing out his shoot/pass ratio. In 09-10 Kesler was primarily a distributor with Raymond and Samuelsson/Burrows, he had an impressive 50 assists that year, so he's fully capable of making plays he just has to make a conscious effort to hold onto the puck and look for the open man. I think Kesler is a much more dangerous player if he's not trying to be any one thing (ie shooter, playmaker, net presence) but a combination of all of them...far less predictability and much better use of all his talents, not just individual talents.
Some would call it going with the flow. lol

But yeah he seems to try to force things too much.

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06-14-2012, 01:18 AM
  #107
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How come we never tried Booth with the Sedins? He could just cherry pick all night.

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06-14-2012, 01:20 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by TedTheTerror View Post
How come we never tried Booth with the Sedins? He could just cherry pick all night.
We did, starting game 2 or 3 of the playoffs. By then, it was too little, too late, but it didn't look too bad.

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06-14-2012, 01:26 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by ahmon View Post
If your linemate is booth, and all he does is speed down the wing and take shots that hit the goalies logo, what is kesler suppose to do? Especially if kesler does not have elite vision.
Something other than speed up the middle and take shots that hit the glass?

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06-14-2012, 01:34 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Canucker View Post
I personally don't think that line needs an elite playmaker as much as it needs Kesler to start balancing out his shoot/pass ratio. In 09-10 Kesler was primarily a distributor with Raymond and Samuelsson/Burrows, he had an impressive 50 assists that year, so he's fully capable of making plays he just has to make a conscious effort to hold onto the puck and look for the open man. I think Kesler is a much more dangerous player if he's not trying to be any one thing (ie shooter, playmaker, net presence) but a combination of all of them...far less predictability and much better use of all his talents, not just individual talents.
I think kesler can still pass ok.

Just that his scoring ability has developed so well that its clearly in my mind superior to his playmaking.

And samuelsson (also a bit of a logo hunter) actually can make some nice plays here and there, on the other hand booth really has tunnel vision.

At the end of the day, even if kesler is willing to pass to booth.

Do we really want booth to take the shot but not kesler?

Much rather have a duo of playmaker(eg tanguay)-kesler than booth-kesler.

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06-14-2012, 01:36 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by MW View Post
Something other than speed up the middle and take shots that hit the glass?
True, but he sure wouldn't pass it to a low percentage scorer like booth, knowing he will not get the puck back.

so he either shoots and kill shin pads, or try to go thru the defense by himself, or plain lose it.

Not saying kesler doesn't deserve some criticisms for forcing things too much, but the personnel on that line simply don't make sense fundamentally.

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06-14-2012, 01:44 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by ahmon View Post
I think kesler can still pass ok.

Just that his scoring ability has developed so well that its clearly in my mind superior to his playmaking.

And samuelsson (also a bit of a logo hunter) actually can make some nice plays here and there, on the other hand booth really has tunnel vision.

At the end of the day, even if kesler is willing to pass to booth.

Do we really want booth to take the shot but not kesler?

Much rather have a duo of playmaker(eg tanguay)-kesler than booth-kesler.
I think Booth has a good shot and I don't care which of them is shooting provided the one taking the shot is in a better shooting position. If Kesler is holding onto the puck and driving wide, Booth is crashing the net and taking a defender or two to create some space and traffic I think it opens up a lot of options. Put the puck at the net with traffic, look for the other winger up high or a sneaking defenseman...or if Kesler has a clean shot he's got that option too.

I do agree that Booth is a very limited player when it comes to creativity, puck handling and passing but that can be mitigated with another quality winger with some vision and some savvy.

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06-14-2012, 01:47 AM
  #113
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True, but he sure wouldn't pass it to a low percentage scorer like booth, knowing he will not get the puck back.

so he either shoots and kill shin pads, or try to go thru the defense by himself, or plain lose it.

Not saying kesler doesn't deserve some criticisms for forcing things too much, but the personnel on that line simply don't make sense fundamentally.
Assuming - and I think it's a safe assumption - AV doesn't tell him "yeah don't bother passing to those guys," the bolded bit is completely unacceptable.

If you don't think your linemate is going to score, the solution isn't to make things completely predictable every single rush. The solution is sometimes to dish the puck to him and get your ass to the crease.

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06-14-2012, 07:32 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by ahmon View Post

if your linemate is raymond, and all he does is speed down the wing and take shots that hit the goalies logo, what is kesler suppose to do?
fyp.

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06-14-2012, 07:51 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Lonny Bohonos View Post
Do people not find it the least bit concerning we are constantly looking for the "right fit" for Kesler?

As for leadership Kelser is supposed to be one of the leaders. We shouldnt have to worry about whether kesler is mature or not. Its expected as a leader.

I was in the camp thining Kesler would be a better leader than Hank, when it came to choosing the C. Not so anymore. Hank proved me wrong.


As I've said in numerous other threads, Kesler is below average as a playmaking centre, which is what this team would excel with. Kesler's value is in the peripherals that he brings to the game, which are more than made up by committee.

Trade him for value, let him be captain somewhere else.

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06-14-2012, 10:47 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by PRNuck View Post
fyp.
yeah and sadly both booth/raymond were on kesler's wings from time to time. hell both were on his wing at the same time in some games.

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06-14-2012, 11:27 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by MW View Post
Assuming - and I think it's a safe assumption - AV doesn't tell him "yeah don't bother passing to those guys," the bolded bit is completely unacceptable.

If you don't think your linemate is going to score, the solution isn't to make things completely predictable every single rush. The solution is sometimes to dish the puck to him and get your ass to the crease.
Thats kesler character right there, he wants to win and sometimes it hurts him more.

But you got to take the good with the bad. If Kesler wasn't wired liked that, we wouldn't have gotten the nashville performance.


And I've seen Kesler worked well with good playmakers, that make me believe rather than trying to change's kesler personality, we should compliment him with the right pieces. He works well with the twins on the pp, he does the dirty work and defers to them to make plays. When sundin was here, kesler worked his butt off and gave him or demitra the puck.


I find it ironic we are demanding more from already one of our best forward, but a guy who disappeared much more like booth was acceptable?

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06-14-2012, 11:30 AM
  #118
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Take him off the ******* power play. Putting him into front of the net on the first powerplay is a bad idea. That more than anything is what's getting him banged up and he's honestly not that good at it.
This. If one was to evaluate were the holes still are on this team one would be a Holmstrom type guy who can take a beating in front of the net and play in that area. Kesler has been sort of forced in there, and has done an ok job, but given the physicallity of the rest of his game, it seems to be too much wear and tear on his body and he is useless and playing injured by the end of every season.

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06-14-2012, 02:59 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by ahmon View Post
Thats kesler character right there, he wants to win and sometimes it hurts him more.

But you got to take the good with the bad. If Kesler wasn't wired liked that, we wouldn't have gotten the nashville performance.


And I've seen Kesler worked well with good playmakers, that make me believe rather than trying to change's kesler personality, we should compliment him with the right pieces. He works well with the twins on the pp, he does the dirty work and defers to them to make plays. When sundin was here, kesler worked his butt off and gave him or demitra the puck.


I find it ironic we are demanding more from already one of our best forward, but a guy who disappeared much more like booth was acceptable?
Honestly, this past season felt like he watched his highlight reel from that series five times before going to sleep every night. I'm not asking for more from him, I'm asking that he return to what made him most effective.

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06-14-2012, 07:02 PM
  #120
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Just put him with the Twins and sign a stud to play the second line Centre. Teams already aim to shut down the Sedins so why not stack it.

Sedins-Kes
Burr-?Stud signing?-Booth
Raymond-Higgy-Hansen
Weise-Lapp-Kass

BTW Im just shootin in the dark here and Kes is one of my least fav nucks right now.

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