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Offseason Thread 2012 II: Offseason Harder

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Old
06-14-2012, 12:32 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by JABEE View Post
http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Eklun...s-Iggy/1/44944

Eklund is now saying that the Flyers may be trying to move two top 6 forwards for Weber. Who could those top 6 forwards be? JVR and Voracek?
Carle-fans must be shaking in their boots..

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06-14-2012, 12:33 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Top 6 Spaling View Post
As I said above, if Weber tells Poile his plan is to sign a one year deal and then walk for nothing, we'd rather trade him and get assets back.
yeah I could see that. so depending on the timing of that conversation does Nashville focus on keeping Suter instead? or has it gone beyond the pint of no return for Suter and hes not coming back.

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Carle-fans must be shaking in their boots..
no not really. its still Eklund.

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06-14-2012, 12:37 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
Me personally I would give up anyone on the Roster not including Giroux

Probably something like

Couts
Mez
1st
3rd
Even for a signed Weber, I still can't imagine Couturier would be on the table. At that point the Flyers would have no young great defensive centers (we can all argue about what Schenn may become) but at this point he isn't close to an elite defensive level. The Flyers know they will be facing Crosby/Malkin down the middle for the forseeable future, and they need a center to match up with those 2.

If this was the scenario I imagine the Flyers would try to make Schenn the centerpiece of the deal, and add JvR and picks to complete the deal. Both Homer and Snider love Couts, and they both see him as a huge part of our future both defensively and offensively.

Getting an elite #1 defensemen like Weber would be huge and fill a missing piece of the puzzle for the Flyers, but losing Couturier would blow another hole in our roster, as we wouldnt have any big centers capable of shutting down Malkin and Crosby.

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06-14-2012, 12:39 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
yeah I could see that. so depending on the timing of that conversation does Nashville focus on keeping Suter instead? or has it gone beyond the pint of no return for Suter and hes not coming back.
Keep in mind I'm some random dude on the internet with no inside info, just echoing the general consensous of Preds fans.

It look like a 98% chance Suter hits UFA on July 1st, but we believe it will be a little like the Kovalchuk situation. Suter has said he loves Nashville, and we meet his criteria (small town, small market, family friendly, compeititve), but the allure of UFA is hard to resist. Our educated guess is that he hits free agency but keeps Nashville as one of the top 2 or 3 teams on his list.

This Weber situation is basically independent of Suter. I think if Suter stays, Weber is more likely to want to stay, but who knows? Shea Weber is a predator for as long as he wants to be one, but if he wants out, regardless of Suter, we have to recoup assets for him.

I would hope/assume the conversation happens the second we find out for sure about Suter so Weber knows if his All-star D partner is sticking around.

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06-14-2012, 12:39 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
yeah I could see that. so depending on the timing of that conversation does Nashville focus on keeping Suter instead? or has it gone beyond the pint of no return for Suter and hes not coming back.
IMO, it has gone beyond the point of any sort of discount for Nashville. They will be competing with Detroit and whomever else is willing to hit 7+ million a year on a deal.

I don't think I'd eliminate the possibility of him re-signing, but it certainly has to fall into the realm of a toss-up or unlikely at this point.

Suter not resigning, imo, INCREASES the likelihood of a Weber deal, not decreases it. My thinking is that Weber probably is less likely to simply resign than test Free Agency without Suter AND Nashville isn't going to want to get burned twice in consecutive years with no return on Suter, then Weber.

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06-14-2012, 12:41 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Schenn10 View Post
Even for a signed Weber, I still can't imagine Couturier would be on the table. At that point the Flyers would have no young great defensive centers (we can all argue about what Schenn may become) but at this point he isn't close to an elite defensive level. The Flyers know they will be facing Crosby/Malkin down the middle for the forseeable future, and they need a center to match up with those 2.

If this was the scenario I imagine the Flyers would try to make Schenn the centerpiece of the deal, and add JvR and picks to complete the deal. Both Homer and Snider love Couts, and they both see him as a huge part of our future both defensively and offensively.

Getting an elite #1 defensemen like Weber would be huge and fill a missing piece of the puzzle for the Flyers, but losing Couturier would blow another hole in our roster, as we wouldnt have any big centers capable of shutting down Malkin and Crosby.
I agree with what you said, but if Weber does become available, we would probably need to include him. We would be competing against 28 other teams to try to acquire him. Many teams would be willing to give up young talented assets for his services. If they do trade Couts away for Weber, they could always try to sign Gaustad on July 1st to help with that. Weber would also make a huge difference when playing Crosby and Malkin.

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06-14-2012, 12:42 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Top 6 Spaling View Post
Keep in mind I'm some random dude on the internet with no inside info, just echoing the general consensous of Preds fans.

It look like a 98% chance Suter hits UFA on July 1st, but we believe it will be a little like the Kovalchuk situation. Suter has said he loves Nashville, and we meet his criteria (small town, small market, family friendly, compeititve), but the allure of UFA is hard to resist. Our educated guess is that he hits free agency but keeps Nashville as one of the top 2 or 3 teams on his list.

This Weber situation is basically independent of Suter. I think if Suter stays, Weber is more likely to want to stay, but who knows? Shea Weber is a predator for as long as he wants to be one, but if he wants out, regardless of Suter, we have to recoup assets for him.

I would hope/assume the conversation happens the second we find out for sure about Suter so Weber knows if his All-star D partner is sticking around.
This is my take as an independent fan with the exception that I disagree that Suter and Weber are completely unlinked. Weber has to look at Suter's situation as a comparable for his own. If Suter walks, I think that absolutely impacts Weber's sense of the what he's going to do.

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06-14-2012, 12:45 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
I agree with what you said, but if Weber does become available, we would probably need to include him. We would be competing against 28 other teams to try to acquire him. Many teams would be willing to give up young talented assets for his services. If they do trade Couts away for Weber, they could always try to sign Gaustad on July 1st to help with that. Weber would also make a huge difference when playing Crosby and Malkin.
I agree with this. Couturier is only tradeable for like 5-8 players in the entire league and a signed Weber is one of them imo. I push like hell for it to be Schenn if it comes to that, but at the end of the day, if it's a deal breaker for Couturier to be included, I take a couple of shots and pull the trigger.

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06-14-2012, 12:46 PM
  #59
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Suter could be just setting the market and resigning with NSH in the end anyway.

He holds all the control...and always has.

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06-14-2012, 12:46 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
IMO, it has gone beyond the point of any sort of discount for Nashville. They will be competing with Detroit and whomever else is willing to hit 7+ million a year on a deal.

I don't think I'd eliminate the possibility of him re-signing, but it certainly has to fall into the realm of a toss-up or unlikely at this point.

Suter not resigning, imo, INCREASES the likelihood of a Weber deal, not decreases it. My thinking is that Weber probably is less likely to simply resign than test Free Agency without Suter AND Nashville isn't going to want to get burned twice in consecutive years with no return on Suter, then Weber.
well you also have to find out what Weber wants going forward with regards to free agency. If he is 100 percent deadset on testing UFA next offseason there is no way I am trading players like JVR,Schenn and multiple draft picks so I can take a chance at talking him out of it. I would want a long term deal signed this summer.

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06-14-2012, 12:50 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
This is my take as an independent fan with the exception that I disagree that Suter and Weber are completely unlinked. Weber has to look at Suter's situation as a comparable for his own. If Suter walks, I think that absolutely impacts Weber's sense of the what he's going to do.
I agree with that. What I meant was Nashville's handling of Weber's decision doesn't change if Suter re-signs or not. Suter abosultely affects Weber's mind, but if Weber wants out, Nashville will try to get assets no matter what Suter does.

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06-14-2012, 12:51 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
I agree with what you said, but if Weber does become available, we would probably need to include him. We would be competing against 28 other teams to try to acquire him. Many teams would be willing to give up young talented assets for his services. If they do trade Couts away for Weber, they could always try to sign Gaustad on July 1st to help with that. Weber would also make a huge difference when playing Crosby and Malkin.
I dont think we would be competing with nearly as many as 28 teams (thats very different than saying 28 other teams would be very interested, which 100% would be true), teams would need to meet very specific criteria to compete:

1) Have enough cap space to fit a likely 7.5+ million cap hit
2) Have enough money to pay 7.5 million + into the future
3) Have young assets they could and would part with

I think those 3 criteria would eliminate a fair amount of teams. Not to mention that its not like Schenn is a slouch himself. He is still considered a top 5 prospect in all the NHL (according to HFboards) and we'd include JvR as well, a guy with 30 goal potential signed long term and was a 2nd overall draft pick, and picks. Alot of teams would have a hard time matching that offer.

Couturier is obviously a guy any team would love to have, but I think the Flyers taking him off the table doesn't necessarily cancel trade negotiations. We have enough young talent that we could still beat every team's offer.

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06-14-2012, 12:54 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Flyerfan4life View Post
Carle-fans must be shaking in their boots..
I thought Carle fans were like unicorns...mythical creatures?

Everyone's biggest argument about keeping Carle is his ability to log big minutes. I am sorry quantity means nothing if it's not quality. It's more of an argument against keeping him. The more often your biggest liability is on the ice; the more opportunity for mistakes.

I will pack and drive Carle to the airport

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06-14-2012, 12:54 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
well you also have to find out what Weber wants going forward with regards to free agency. If he is 100 percent deadset on testing UFA next offseason there is no way I am trading players like JVR,Schenn and multiple draft picks so I can take a chance at talking him out of it. I would want a long term deal signed this summer.
Definitely. This situation absolutely parallels the Pronger signing for me. If anyone thinks that it's happenstance that Pronger signed a contract with the Flyers no more than 10 days after the trade, they're crazy.

The Flyers communicated with Pronger's agent and Pronge prrior to that trade to get an idea of if, and at what cost, Pronger would sign a longer term deal. I would expect that at least a framework for dollars/years would be a pre-requisite for a trade.... and we all know he'll get that full NMC lol.

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06-14-2012, 12:55 PM
  #65
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I also think if Weber is willing to give a number and term it would take to sign him, we might as well just wait a year and sign him for free and keep Schenn/Couturier

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06-14-2012, 12:59 PM
  #66
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Flyers philosophy has always been to stock centers..they believe in building down the middle unlike the 76ers...although I'm more inclined to believe in building from the net up.

Having said this...I don't think they will trade Couturier or Schenn that easily especially if they are not assured a player like Weber signs.

I still don't see the Flyers trading Couturier though regardless...

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06-14-2012, 01:01 PM
  #67
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I also think if Weber is willing to give a number and term it would take to sign him, we might as well just wait a year and sign him for free and keep Schenn/Couturier
It doesn't work like that. You are buying a year of risk this year, so for me, that dollar number changes after this season.

Basically, with guaranteed contracts, signing a player a year ahead of when is required (UFA), the team transfers a year of liability associated with injury from that player to the team. If the Preds sign Weber tomorrow and he gets seriously injured, the Preds live with the longterm consequences. If Weber goes into the final year of his deal without an extension and suffers that same injury, he loses both dollars and term on his next deal.

Signing Weber tomorrow probably take like 10 years, 75 million. Signing Weber on July 1, 2013 probably costs 10 years, 80 million +.

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06-14-2012, 01:14 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
Definitely. This situation absolutely parallels the Pronger signing for me. If anyone thinks that it's happenstance that Pronger signed a contract with the Flyers no more than 10 days after the trade, they're crazy.

The Flyers communicated with Pronger's agent and Pronge prrior to that trade to get an idea of if, and at what cost, Pronger would sign a longer term deal. I would expect that at least a framework for dollars/years would be a pre-requisite for a trade.... and we all know he'll get that full NMC lol.
Pronger still had a year left on his deal when they traded for him.
Weber will get a full NTC. I agree. He may get a 10 year deal as well.

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06-14-2012, 01:19 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
It doesn't work like that. You are buying a year of risk this year, so for me, that dollar number changes after this season.

Basically, with guaranteed contracts, signing a player a year ahead of when is required (UFA), the team transfers a year of liability associated with injury from that player to the team. If the Preds sign Weber tomorrow and he gets seriously injured, the Preds live with the longterm consequences. If Weber goes into the final year of his deal without an extension and suffers that same injury, he loses both dollars and term on his next deal.

Signing Weber tomorrow probably take like 10 years, 75 million. Signing Weber on July 1, 2013 probably costs 10 years, 80 million +.
I was speaking more along the lines of "if he is willing to indicate the he will sign long-term with the Flyers if the money is right" we might as well wait for the offseason and give up nothing but money for him.

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06-14-2012, 01:21 PM
  #70
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Is Nash a Flyer yet? WHAT IS THE HOLDUP???

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06-14-2012, 01:29 PM
  #71
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From CSN

Quote:
Source: Suter doesn't want to come to Philly
While there are a number of logical reasons why the Flyers would want to pursue Nashville defenseman Ryan Suter, who is headed for unrestricted free agency this summer, the question remains: is Suter interested in them?
*
Recall the Flyers had serious interest in Jay Bouwmeester several summer ago, but it wasn’t reciprocal. As such, they turned their attentions elsewhere by going after Chris Pronger.
*
According to a well-placed source, Suter has a potential list of clubs he would be willing to talk to even if his rights were traded before July 1. Suter is represented by Neil Sheehy.
*
Alas, the Flyers are not one of them.

In fact, the source said, all of Suter’s preferred destinations, should he leave the Predators, are in the Western Conference – not the East.
*
Detroit is generally conceded to be his top choice.

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06-14-2012, 01:30 PM
  #72
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What's hilarious is CSN posting this and Panotch tweeting it. From what I recall, this story was broke what, 2-3 weeks ago?

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06-14-2012, 01:34 PM
  #73
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From CSN
I think it pretty much is a no-brainer that it will be Detroit. They just lost their #1 guy and have gobs of money to toss at him. I would be pretty surprised if he didn't sign there (regardless of whether or not his rights are dealt).

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06-14-2012, 01:39 PM
  #74
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What's hilarious is CSN posting this and Panotch tweeting it. From what I recall, this story was broke what, 2-3 weeks ago?
Precisely. It's sad that 2-3 weeks is usually the average amount of time it takes the Philly media to pick up on stories regarding the flyers or the NHL...

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06-14-2012, 01:39 PM
  #75
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I think it pretty much is a no-brainer that it will be Detroit. They just lost their #1 guy and have gobs of money to toss at him. I would be pretty surprised if he didn't sign there (regardless of whether or not his rights are dealt).
Why would he want to sign in Detroit of all places? I'd rather stay in Nashville.

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