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Here's why the B's do not draft goalies in the 1st round.

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Old
06-14-2012, 01:08 PM
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Son of Donegal
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Here's why the B's do not draft goalies in the 1st round.

Interesting read from Hockey's Future after the 2002 draft - They really hit the nail on the head with their prediction of Hannu Toivonen's demise as an NHL goalie.

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...the2002_draft/

I guess it's safe to say, the B's do not draft Malcom Subban this year!

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06-14-2012, 01:17 PM
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WBC8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Donegal View Post
Interesting read from Hockey's Future after the 2002 draft - They really hit the nail on the head with their prediction of Hannu Toivonen's demise as an NHL goalie.

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...the2002_draft/

I guess it's safe to say, the B's do not draft Malcom Subban this year!
I know the Bruins were already to draft Martin Brodeur as I think I read a story he was all set to be a Bruin the night before after a meeting with them.

Goalies take so long to develop so if you spend a one on them you better get it right, but you also better be patient..

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06-14-2012, 01:22 PM
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Lost Horizons
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The biggest thing that happened to Toivonen development was the shrinking of the goalie equipment post lockout. He never adapted to smaller equipment. He relied to much on big pads to stop the puck and never developed the quickness you need to play goal. He kept dropping into the butterfly for every shot even on shots from the point thinking they would just hit him in the shoulder like they used to but they were going in. He was a big equipment goalie. Raycroft was too.

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06-14-2012, 01:24 PM
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Kaoz
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What a horrible draft Boston had that year.

And the only asset I believe they have left over from it would be Carl Soderberg. Duncan Keith was taken 54th that year Duncan Keith.

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06-14-2012, 01:26 PM
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Lost Horizons
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What a horrible draft Boston had that year.

And the only asset I believe they have left over from it would be Carl Soderberg. Duncan Keith was taken 54th that year Duncan Keith.
The b's had bad drafts from 98-02 and that killed them post lockout out. They had no young homegrown,cheap talent ready to play in the nhl

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06-14-2012, 01:42 PM
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If only we could have drafted Kiril Koltsov or Denis Grot!

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06-14-2012, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost Horizons View Post
The biggest thing that happened to Toivonen development was the shrinking of the goalie equipment post lockout. He never adapted to smaller equipment. He relied to much on big pads to stop the puck and never developed the quickness you need to play goal. He kept dropping into the butterfly for every shot even on shots from the point thinking they would just hit him in the shoulder like they used to but they were going in. He was a big equipment goalie. Raycroft was too.
I think that was a bigger issue for Raycroft than Toivonen.

Toivonen had that bad ankle injury, missed most of a year, and was rusty when he came back. Rather than get him playing time I recall he spent most of the year getting jerked around being 3rd goalie in Boston, down to Prov for a weekend, and so on with no regular action. He then got traded to St. Louis, who more or less did the same exact thing with him the next year. Not exactly Plan A for developing a goaltender.

What killed Toivonen's NHL future is probably not as simple as one thing, whether it was a ankle that was never quite the same, lost development or confidence due to mismanagement following that injury by both Boston and St. Louis, management change and a team in disarray in Boston 2006, or changes to the game and equipment...probably all played a piece of the puzzle. My main point here is prior to the ankle injury, all signs were pointing to Toivonen being a NHL starter. Two consecutive strong seasons in Providence were followed by a good start to NHL action that was derailed by the season ending injury after just 20 games.

Both he and Raycroft were systems based/positional goalies, but Toivonen had both better size and athleticism and was in my mind a more talented goalie from the get go.

Also, to the OP...Ryabchinkov is why the Bruins don't draft goalies in the 1st round.

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06-14-2012, 01:52 PM
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Kind of goes for a lot of teams though. Goalies are so hard to gauge at that age.

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06-14-2012, 01:59 PM
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Our upcoming starting goalie was a first round draft pick...granted it was with the leafs but still...

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06-14-2012, 02:02 PM
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Lost Horizons
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dead_golem View Post
I think that was a bigger issue for Raycroft than Toivonen.

Toivonen had that bad ankle injury, missed most of a year, and was rusty when he came back. Rather than get him playing time I recall he spent most of the year getting jerked around being 3rd goalie in Boston, down to Prov for a weekend, and so on with no regular action. He then got traded to St. Louis, who more or less did the same exact thing with him the next year. Not exactly Plan A for developing a goaltender.

What killed Toivonen's NHL future is probably not as simple as one thing, whether it was a ankle that was never quite the same, lost development or confidence due to mismanagement following that injury by both Boston and St. Louis, management change and a team in disarray in Boston 2006, or changes to the game and equipment...probably all played a piece of the puzzle. My main point here is prior to the ankle injury, all signs were pointing to Toivonen being a NHL starter. Two consecutive strong seasons in Providence were followed by a good start to NHL action that was derailed by the season ending injury after just 20 games.

Both he and Raycroft were systems based/positional goalies, but Toivonen had both better size and athleticism and was in my mind a more talented goalie from the get go.

Also, to the OP...Ryabchinkov is why the Bruins don't draft goalies in the 1st round.
The ankle is what might have killed off his career but before that teams had the book on him:shoot high and that's where a lot the goals went. His good years in Prov were pre lockout with big equipment. His numbers after the lockout no matter the year aren't good. His best year he had a .914 which isn't bad but it's not great either and it's all down hill from there.

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06-14-2012, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost Horizons View Post
The biggest thing that happened to Toivonen development was the shrinking of the goalie equipment post lockout. He never adapted to smaller equipment. He relied to much on big pads to stop the puck and never developed the quickness you need to play goal. He kept dropping into the butterfly for every shot even on shots from the point thinking they would just hit him in the shoulder like they used to but they were going in. He was a big equipment goalie. Raycroft was too.
I'd say that he never fully recovered from that High Ankle Sprain. That is one of the worst injuries for a hockey player, especially a goalie.

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06-14-2012, 02:07 PM
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Anybody wonder why, after looking at that draft, the Bruins now predominantly draft North Americans?

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06-14-2012, 02:10 PM
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I'd say that he never fully recovered from that High Ankle Sprain. That is one of the worst injuries for a hockey player, especially a goalie.
I think the ankle healed just his head never did and that's what weighed on him.

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06-14-2012, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrainOfJ View Post
Our upcoming starting goalie was a first round draft pick...granted it was with the leafs but still...
And he got drafted SEVEN years ago...They take a long time to develop...

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06-14-2012, 02:16 PM
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Any team with multiple seconds should draft Anthony Stolarz from Jackson NJ...

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06-14-2012, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by dead_golem View Post
Also, to the OP...Ryabchinkov is why the Bruins don't draft goalies in the 1st round.

Now, THAT was an epic hockey career !!!

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...y.php?pid=6952

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06-14-2012, 02:26 PM
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Now, THAT was an epic hockey career !!!

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...y.php?pid=6952
Truly Daskalakian.

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06-14-2012, 02:31 PM
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What a horrible draft Boston had that year.

And the only asset I believe they have left over from it would be Carl Soderberg. Duncan Keith was taken 54th that year Duncan Keith.
Don't forget that Yan Stastny was part of the deal that helped Boston draft Brad Marchand.

- Boston traded Yan Stastny to Edmonton for their 4th round pick ( 98th overall ) in the 2006 draft.
- Boston then traded that pick plus a 5th round pick ( 126th overall ) to the NYI for their 3rd round pick ( 71st overall ) which was used to pick Marchand.


In case you are curious - the second time that Boston traded Stastny it was to St. Louis for their 5th round pick ( 130th overall ) in the 2007 draft and that pick was used to select Denis Reul.

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06-14-2012, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Lost Horizons View Post
The b's had bad drafts from 98-02 and that killed them post lockout out. They had no young homegrown,cheap talent ready to play in the nhl
To be fair, a lot of teams did .

Drafting sure has come a long way since then, hard to imagine guys like Alfredsson, Datsyuk, and Zetterberg would slip the cracks these days like they did back then.

Quote:
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Don't forget that Yan Stastny was part of the deal that helped Boston draft Brad Marchand.

- Boston traded Yan Stastny to Edmonton for their 4th round pick ( 98th overall ) in the 2006 draft.
- Boston then traded that pick plus a 5th round pick ( 126th overall ) to the NYI for their 3rd round pick ( 71st overall ) which was used to pick Marchand.


In case you are curious - the second time that Boston traded Stastny it was to St. Louis for their 5th round pick ( 130th overall ) in the 2007 draft and that pick was used to select Denis Reul.
Very very nice catch. Poor NYI. They ended up dealing 98 for 108 and 173 for a grand total of Jase Weslosky, Shane Sims, and Stefan Ridderwall


Last edited by Kaoz: 06-14-2012 at 02:45 PM.
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06-14-2012, 02:41 PM
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IIRC the other guy they liked that year was Jim Slater, so even if they passed on Hannu it wouldn't have been that much better.

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06-14-2012, 03:09 PM
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And he got drafted SEVEN years ago...They take a long time to develop...
Of course he was also a dominating NHL goaltender 2 years ago. So it took him 5 years from draft to the point where he was basically as good as anyone in the league at his position.

ANd the Bruins certainly handled him with care never pushing him to rush his development at all

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06-14-2012, 03:45 PM
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To be fair, a lot of teams did .

Drafting sure has come a long way since then, hard to imagine guys like Alfredsson, Datsyuk, and Zetterberg would slip the cracks these days like they did back then.



Very very nice catch. Poor NYI. They ended up dealing 98 for 108 and 173 for a grand total of Jase Weslosky, Shane Sims, and Stefan Ridderwall
Datsyuk probably would. He didn't get drafted until his third year of eligibility, and the year he was drafted, he probably weighed no more than 150 pounds and scored all of three goals and five assists in 24 games for Dynamo Yekaterinburg. The Red Wings scout only saw him because he was looking at Dmitri Kalinin.

Some kids just grow/develop more slowly than others. The Wings look like geniuses for picking Datsyuk, but I'm sure they'd be the first to tell you they took a flyer and got lucky.


Last edited by Artemis: 06-14-2012 at 06:15 PM.
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06-14-2012, 06:33 PM
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Bruins track record of first round goalie selections are shabby at best, but this mocker thinks the bruins could try it again.

http://flames.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=633248

Thoughts ?

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06-14-2012, 06:42 PM
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Bruins track record of first round goalie selections are shabby at best, but this mocker thinks the bruins could try it again.

http://flames.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=633248

Thoughts ?
With Koekkoek still on the board? Nah.

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06-14-2012, 06:44 PM
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Kaoz
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Datsyuk probably would. He didn't get drafted until his third year of eligibility, and the year he was drafted, he probably weighed no more than 150 pounds and scored all of three goals and five assists in 24 games for Dynamo Yekaterinburg. The Red Wings scout only saw him because he was looking at Dmitri Kalinin.

Some kids just grow/develop more slowly than others. The Wings look like geniuses for picking Datsyuk, but I'm sure they'd be the first to tell you they took a flyer and got lucky.
Just some added perspective however, that paltry number tied him for the team lead in scoring. Now a days, he likely would have went in his first year as a 17 year old playing in the RSL and not looking out of place. Most kids holding their own in the KHL are locks for the first or second round now a days, even with the Russian issue. He most certainly would have gone in his second year as an 18 year old and succeeding at the very least, he was getting quite a bit of recognition by this point.

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