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2012 NHL Draft Thread III (June 22nd-23rd)

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06-14-2012, 01:36 PM
  #701
Mayor Bee
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
And how ironic that many Jackets fans are desperate to get Logan Couture in a Rick Nash trade, when our fool GM passed him over for Voracek? Five years later that draft looks far weaker than all of the prospectfiles were telling us.
Voracek was the #1 prospect for most of the year until about March. Couture had mono and played poorly most of the year, and was a bit more of a risk. Even then, no one had Couture pegged as a future star until he broke through in the AHL in 2009-10.

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06-14-2012, 02:30 PM
  #702
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According Capn excelent logic Maloney is a fool because he didnt draft Couture but Turris...

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06-14-2012, 02:35 PM
  #703
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post

I really don't care. I'm just going to be honest here that the whole fascination with prospects does nothing for me. I don't think I could endure a whole year of [Something that rhymes with MacKinnon] for MacKinnon. If he falls to us, great. But if this team's whole plan is to hope that some balls bounce their way, we see how well that worked out this time. I've had about enough of leaving things to chance. It is time to make things happen now instead of hoping for some dumb luck in the future.
I don't think the team should intentionally plan to draft Mackinnon or Jones. However, I believe the Jackets are far away from being a real good team so I don't see how you make things too much better in the short term. Get a good goalie, a decent return for Nash and maybe the Jackets eke out an 8 seed. More likely they finish in the bottom 6-8. So that being said, I think you develop a strategy to make the team a contender say 3 to 5 years from now. If the plan yields MacKinnon or Jones, great; if not that means progress is being made.

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06-14-2012, 02:42 PM
  #704
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
Voracek was the #1 prospect for most of the year until about March. Couture had mono and played poorly most of the year, and was a bit more of a risk. Even then, no one had Couture pegged as a future star until he broke through in the AHL in 2009-10.
Not just that, but I do believe McDonagh was higher on our list than Couture (Dougie Mac is my source for this, but he said it at the '07 draft, recently after he was fired). With LA going off the board, Jake lasted a little longer than expected, and it was pretty much a no-brainer at the time that he was BPA.

And that scrub of a GM Peter Chiarelli passed on Couture in lieu of... wait for it... Zach Hamill (whose last name slipped my mind, that's how irrelevant he is now). That's just how the draft goes sometimes. Even good GMs make bad picks. Hindsight, 20/20, etc.

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06-14-2012, 02:46 PM
  #705
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Jake was a good pick based on what we knew then.

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06-14-2012, 03:07 PM
  #706
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Porty just said on Edmonton's radio station that the CBJ do NOT have Yakupov at #1 on their board, and that he might fall out of the top 5 if Edmonton passes on him.

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06-14-2012, 03:11 PM
  #707
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBJBrassard16 View Post
Porty just said on Edmonton's radio station that the CBJ do NOT have Yakupov at #1 on their board, and that he might fall out of the top 5 if Edmonton passes on him.
I want a recording, or a written posting on an official news outlet, before I even consider believing that, because I am not in the mood for a ****storm based on hearsay.

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06-14-2012, 03:15 PM
  #708
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
I want a recording, or a written posting on an official news outlet, before I even consider believing that, because I am not in the mood for a ****storm based on hearsay.
Sorry I can't get you that, I'm not the only one who heard it though.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=217

And this tweet from Porty saying he was going on the show.

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06-14-2012, 03:22 PM
  #709
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
I want a recording, or a written posting on an official news outlet, before I even consider believing that, because I am not in the mood for a ****storm based on hearsay.
Doesn't surprise me. Nothing this team does (or doesn't do) surprises me.

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06-14-2012, 03:31 PM
  #710
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Galchenyuk.....say it with me now. Galchenyuk! I hope Yak drops to us at #2 and we flip him to Montreal and take Galchenyuk. I'm not opposed to Yak but I have to stay the course as I have consistently (I hope so ) said we should trade down even it #1

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06-14-2012, 05:05 PM
  #711
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ludicrous Speed View Post
Not just that, but I do believe McDonagh was higher on our list than Couture (Dougie Mac is my source for this, but he said it at the '07 draft, recently after he was fired). With LA going off the board, Jake lasted a little longer than expected, and it was pretty much a no-brainer at the time that he was BPA.

And that scrub of a GM Peter Chiarelli passed on Couture in lieu of... wait for it... Zach Hamill (whose last name slipped my mind, that's how irrelevant he is now). That's just how the draft goes sometimes. Even good GMs make bad picks. Hindsight, 20/20, etc.
At the time, Zach Hamill was thought of as a lower pick also. Couture was mentioned before the season as being a contender for Esposito's #1 overall ranking, but due to his bout of illness, I think there were a lot of concerns as to whether or not it was just hype. Hamill came into the season rated in the top-15. I think everyone expected him to get stronger and work harder on his two-way game, but really he floundered and showed that even his offensive skills were meager at best.

Funny, I remember seeing Zach Hamill's first WHL goal live - a series clinching OT winner as a 15 year old. I also remember the hype machine that came from that

Quote:
Originally Posted by CBJBrassard16 View Post
Porty just said on Edmonton's radio station that the CBJ do NOT have Yakupov at #1 on their board, and that he might fall out of the top 5 if Edmonton passes on him.
Not a chance. If Edmonton passes on him, we'll take him. If we don't take him, Montreal will not pass him up, and we all know that even in that highly unlikely scenario, Brian Burke will be drooling at the thought of picking him. It's all moot though, because he's going in the top-2.

I saw an interesting article over on tsn.ca this morning, thought I would share:

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=398362

Excerpt:

Quote:
In 1993, the Ottawa Senators' abysmal season saw a light at the end of the tunnel with sure-fire prospect Alexandre Daigle. The Victoriaville centre tore up the QMJHL in his final junior season (with 137 points in just 53 games) and was tabbed to be the next great superstar before even stepping out onto an NHL rink.
The reason I share this is because it talks about all of the #1 overall draft "busts" over the years. I hear a lot of the same things said about Yakupov that were said about Daigle ... something that might be concerning if we do end up landing him.

That being said, I think the opportunity is too good to pass up, should it present itself.

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06-14-2012, 05:25 PM
  #712
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBJBrassard16 View Post
Porty just said on Edmonton's radio station that the CBJ do NOT have Yakupov at #1 on their board, and that he might fall out of the top 5 if Edmonton passes on him.
I'd question the way the CBJ scouts rank anyone every year.

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06-14-2012, 05:29 PM
  #713
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The only way I see Yakupov falling out of the top 5 is if there was a reason teams were souring on him. Like he didn't interview well at the Combine or tests showed he really did have a concussion or something. But if there was something like that, it would leak. If the Oilers needed fans to understand why they weren't picking them, they might leak it themselves.

But from a negotiating standpoint, it devalues the #1 pick especially if the Oilers really do want to trade down and get some ridiculous overpayment for Yakupov.

After Yakupov, players could be picked in any order. The Jackets may like Forsberg and Murray, the Oilers Murray and Reinhart, the Canadiens Galy and Grigs, the Islanders Teravainen and Grigs, the Leafs Galy and Forsberg. Teams all have different draft boards and are happy to sit back and get the player they want.

The Oilers could want to trade down and get a huge payoff. The Jackets are essentially saying they don't care about Yakupov, and there's no pressure on any teams lower than them to trade with the Oilers so they can get him before Columbus.

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06-14-2012, 05:38 PM
  #714
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could it also be a way to simply devalue the choice? he went on EDMONTON radio saying that the CBJ don't have the typically consensus #1 pick listed as #1?

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06-14-2012, 05:41 PM
  #715
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post
The reason I share this is because it talks about all of the #1 overall draft "busts" over the years. I hear a lot of the same things said about Yakupov that were said about Daigle ... something that might be concerning if we do end up landing him.

That being said, I think the opportunity is too good to pass up, should it present itself.
Daigle's hype had as much to do with marketing as anything. If he looked like Chris Pronger, would he have had the hype?

In Roy MacGregor's book "Road Games", he spends a lot of time talking about Daigle. Basically, the Senators' scouts wanted Pronger, while the front office and ownership wanted Daigle. They finally tested it by doing a pregame intro mockup for the Jumbotron, with an airbrushed roster pic of Pronger and then of Daigle. It only reinforced how badly they wanted to get Daigle...the idea that he was marketable right off the bat meant they could finally get the Palladium development project off the ground. It had been in limbo for a period of time, and Daigle could provide the impetus to get it moving.

It was also mentioned that Quebec treasured Daigle so much as the next great French-Canadian superstar that they were willing to move Joe Sakic and Owen Nolan, and probably Peter Forsberg (who was still a prospect at that point) to get the #1 pick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timeless Winter View Post
I'd question the way the CBJ scouts rank anyone every year.
I'm sure they eagerly await your input and brilliant insight, and are wondering why you're being coy.

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06-14-2012, 05:50 PM
  #716
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could it also be a way to simply devalue the choice? he went on EDMONTON radio saying that the CBJ don't have the typically consensus #1 pick listed as #1?
It strikes me as clever...if Edmonton wants Murray, they're doing to either have to flip picks or else draft him #1 overall. And if it leaves Yakupov at #2 and Columbus isn't sold on him, suddenly #2 becomes extremely valuable and I'd expect a trade at that point.

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06-14-2012, 06:29 PM
  #717
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
. I don't think I could endure a whole year of [Something that rhymes with MacKinnon] for MacKinnon. .
Not Winnin' for MacKinnon

You heard it here first

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06-14-2012, 06:32 PM
  #718
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If the words that we want to get Murray from our pick is right IMO Edmonton, if they want Murray, must pick him as a number one. In this case we have very good choice of forwards.

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06-14-2012, 07:24 PM
  #719
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
Voracek was the #1 prospect for most of the year until about March. Couture had mono and played poorly most of the year, and was a bit more of a risk. Even then, no one had Couture pegged as a future star until he broke through in the AHL in 2009-10.
I recall several posters on this very board who were very much in the Couture camp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ludicrous Speed View Post
Not just that, but I do believe McDonagh was higher on our list than Couture (Dougie Mac is my source for this, but he said it at the '07 draft, recently after he was fired). With LA going off the board, Jake lasted a little longer than expected, and it was pretty much a no-brainer at the time that he was BPA.

And that scrub of a GM Peter Chiarelli passed on Couture in lieu of... wait for it... Zach Hamill (whose last name slipped my mind, that's how irrelevant he is now). That's just how the draft goes sometimes. Even good GMs make bad picks. Hindsight, 20/20, etc.
Others on here have questioned Chiarelli's draft prowess. You can be a good GM and still weak at parts of your job. Some are better at team building and free agency. Some are better at the draft, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post
At the time, Zach Hamill was thought of as a lower pick also. Couture was mentioned before the season as being a contender for Esposito's #1 overall ranking, but due to his bout of illness, I think there were a lot of concerns as to whether or not it was just hype. Hamill came into the season rated in the top-15. I think everyone expected him to get stronger and work harder on his two-way game, but really he floundered and showed that even his offensive skills were meager at best.

Funny, I remember seeing Zach Hamill's first WHL goal live - a series clinching OT winner as a 15 year old. I also remember the hype machine that came from that


Not a chance. If Edmonton passes on him, we'll take him. If we don't take him, Montreal will not pass him up, and we all know that even in that highly unlikely scenario, Brian Burke will be drooling at the thought of picking him. It's all moot though, because he's going in the top-2.
How foolish, when you think about it, to discount Couture over a bout with mono. Then again, Steve Mason would have been better if he had just continued to have it.

I'll be honest, I'm not sure Burke is drooling over Yakupov. That has been the press reports lately, but I sense a misdirect. Burke is generally anti-Russian. If he wants a kid with a Russian name, it is Galchenyuk--Burke loves American kids and could use another center.

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06-14-2012, 07:39 PM
  #720
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Yakupov's twitter. Connor Murphy was talking to him about going to Columbus.

https://twitter.com/#!/Nail10_1993

Connor Murphy ‏@Cmurphy5

@Nail10_1993 it's good thanks. Have fun at the draft! Do your best to end up in Columbus so you can come visit

2h Наиль Якупов Наиль Якупов ‏@Nail10_1993

@Cmurphy5 Thanks man)))) I can come to visit u anyways In sarnia - or everywhere

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06-14-2012, 07:58 PM
  #721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
I recall several posters on this very board who were very much in the Couture camp.
I'll take your word for it; I wasn't around.

Quote:
How foolish, when you think about it, to discount Couture over a bout with mono. Then again, Steve Mason would have been better if he had just continued to have it.
Mono would, in theory, be the same as any other injury or any other circumstance that leads to losing a developmental season. Svitov lost an entire year due to his forced conscription, and some would say he was never the same because of that.

I think the reason it has any impact is because it may mask the player not being as good as he was projected to be the year prior. This time last year, plenty of people in the know were talking about Ryan Murray and Nick Ebert being the two best defensemen in the draft. If Ebert had been injured like Galchenyuk or sick like Couture, someone undoubtedly would take him in the top-10 and regret it for the rest of their careers.

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06-14-2012, 08:47 PM
  #722
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I think the reason it has any impact is because it may mask the player not being as good as he was projected to be the year prior. This time last year, plenty of people in the know were talking about Ryan Murray and Nick Ebert being the two best defensemen in the draft. If Ebert had been injured like Galchenyuk or sick like Couture, someone undoubtedly would take him in the top-10 and regret it for the rest of their careers.
Excellent point. There is absolutely no way to argue that.

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06-14-2012, 08:56 PM
  #723
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Quote:
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I think the reason it has any impact is because it may mask the player not being as good as he was projected to be the year prior. This time last year, plenty of people in the know were talking about Ryan Murray and Nick Ebert being the two best defensemen in the draft. If Ebert had been injured like Galchenyuk or sick like Couture, someone undoubtedly would take him in the top-10 and regret it for the rest of their careers.
That's a very good point. Ebert looks like nothing special without Ryan Ellis.

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06-14-2012, 09:12 PM
  #724
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Assuming Yakupov goes #1, Howson could really impress me by taking Grigorenko, if he does he can honestly say he took the best player available. If it's Murray that's fine too, but picking Grigorenko would really show some balls.

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06-14-2012, 09:44 PM
  #725
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Here's a link to that Portzline interview: http://www.630ched.com/Podcasts/Episodes.aspx?PID=2254

Question: How many Blue Jackets scoops does he usually have? Is he known as a news breaker?

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