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2012 NHL Entry Draft (All NON-Ranger Prospect Discussion Thread - Part II)

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Old
06-14-2012, 08:26 PM
  #126
Bird Law
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Cory Schneider is just now about to get a starting job in the NHL. #26 in 2004.

Tuuka Rask is just now about to get a starting job in the NHL. #21 in 2005.

Jonathan Bernier is still in a backup role for LA and awaiting a starting job. #11 in 2006.

Riku Helenius just signed a deal with Tampa Bay, who drafted him 15th overall in 2006. Should get every opportunity to start this year.

There are 4 examples that debunk your theory. 3 of whom are considered to be among the elite young goalies in the NHL.
Helenius isn't a great example because he was a huge bust for a while. He's only now starting to turn his career around.

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Old
06-14-2012, 08:27 PM
  #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
If we draft a goaltender in the first round, I'm going to fling feces at my TV.

Especially if Kerdiles is still in the board.
Your Kerdiles love is getting near ODC Lisin love, dude.

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06-14-2012, 08:29 PM
  #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Your Kerdiles love is getting near ODC Lisin love, dude.
Not in the same stratosphere.

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06-14-2012, 08:30 PM
  #129
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Drafting a goaltender in the first round is a waste of pick.

He won't play for this team.

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06-14-2012, 08:36 PM
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Not in the same stratosphere.
Every other post is Kerdiles (keep in mind I'm just kidding around with you).

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06-14-2012, 08:40 PM
  #131
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I would be upset with taking a goalie, purely from a value standpoint.

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06-14-2012, 09:01 PM
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Every other post is Kerdiles (keep in mind I'm just kidding around with you).
I know ur kidding.

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06-14-2012, 09:03 PM
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
I would be upset with taking a goalie, purely from a value standpoint.
Yeah, i just don't see the point in selecting a goaltender in the first round right now.

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06-14-2012, 09:08 PM
  #134
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We need offense.

I haven't read my draft material yet, but I'd like to see us draft a forward with high offensive upside.

Does Kerdiles fit that description?

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06-14-2012, 09:11 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Jabroni1994 View Post
We need offense.

I haven't read my draft material yet, but I'd like to see us draft a forward with high offensive upside.

Does Kerdiles fit that description?
You're going to get mixed opinions on that.

I'm in the camp that believes he does.

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06-14-2012, 09:35 PM
  #136
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We don't know how Gordie and friends rank these guys so they may not be interested in anyone we're talking about here.

But as for the young Russian goalie, we're all looking at it the wrong way. Look, if he's BPA by a mile over guys who will be 3rd liners or average players either offensively or defensively, you take him.

We all love Henrik but he won't be young forever. Who knows what happens with his game, health, desire to stay in NY in his mid-late 30s if he hasn't won a Cup. Is it that bad to have a young cheap backup on an entry level deal in 3-4 years from now who can take over? I'd love another Beezer/Richter (or Giacoman/Villemure) tandem even if it only lasts a few years.

You absolutely do no want to get caught with your pants down especially when it comes to goaltending. If this team has a chance to have a guaranteed next starter until 2025 who is going to be solid or elite, take him and don't look back. Offense can always be acquired, goaltending is a lot harder to get (just look at our buddies in Philly as an example).

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Old
06-14-2012, 09:54 PM
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Cory Schneider is just now about to get a starting job in the NHL. #26 in 2004.

Tuuka Rask is just now about to get a starting job in the NHL. #21 in 2005.

Jonathan Bernier is still in a backup role for LA and awaiting a starting job. #11 in 2006.

Riku Helenius just signed a deal with Tampa Bay, who drafted him 15th overall in 2006. Should get every opportunity to start this year.

There are 4 examples that debunk your theory. 3 of whom are considered to be among the elite young goalies in the NHL.
Smart, astute post. It's takes time to build a goaltender. And just because one 7th round crapshoot worked out well for us it doesn't mean we'll catch lightning in a botle again.

I doube the failure rate on goaltenders in the first round is much different from other positions.

Have looked at a ton of mock drafts and I've seen Subban and Vasilevski both anywhere from 10 to the 2nd round. If one of those guys is on the board at #28, I'm guessing the Rangers will be tempted. If they are both gone and there's no other guy the Rangers are fixated on, I can easily see them trading back into the second round and picking up an additional pick.

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06-14-2012, 09:56 PM
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
If we draft a goaltender in the first round, I'm going to fling feces at my TV.

Especially if Kerdiles is still in the board.
I bet you can't stand Craig Button.

(not in his top 60)

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06-14-2012, 09:59 PM
  #139
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Not excited about any of the forwards that'll probably be available.

Wouldn't mind a 'tender, I guess. I really wish we'd trade the pick though.

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06-14-2012, 10:24 PM
  #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
Not excited about any of the forwards that'll probably be available.

Wouldn't mind a 'tender, I guess. I really wish we'd trade the pick though.
You have to find a taker which isn't necessarily that easy for a late 1st rounder. But yeah, if the talent level between 25 and 50 isn't that much different I'm fine moving #28 for two seconds.

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06-14-2012, 10:30 PM
  #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
Not excited about any of the forwards that'll probably be available.

Wouldn't mind a 'tender, I guess. I really wish we'd trade the pick though.
As in trade down or trade it away completely?

Have to disagree if you mean the latter. Need to keep the cupboard stocked so that we can keep bringing in young guys. The only way I'd want it moved would be for a young-ish scorer on a good contract (which would cost a hell of a lot more than the #28 pick).

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Old
06-15-2012, 12:33 AM
  #142
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A goalie in the 1st round would be a waste of a pick with Lundqvist only being 30 years old. I wouldn't mind taking one, but not that high.

I want one of Kerdiles, Matteau, or Pearson, my favorite being Pearson because he has the most pure skill whereas Kerdiles and Matteau are bangers.

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06-15-2012, 01:56 AM
  #143
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I would not mind taking a goalie if they move back into the 2nd round and get another 2nd rounder back in return.

Columbus (31 and 45), Buffalo (42 and 44), and Tampa (3) (37, 40 and 50) have multiple 2nd rounder. I can see something like this:

Rangers 28th selection to Tampa for their 37th and 40 selections. Yzerman is still retooling that team and another player they like 11 picks higher than where they pick is available, especially one of the goalies, might make him want to move up and grab the goalie before NJ gets their hands on his guy.

Same goes for Columbus. They need a young goalie as well.

Also, for people thinking goalies have less value than skaters: a big time netminder can get you places and is one the ice all game. That big forward might be out there for 1/3 of it. Cory Schnieder and Jonathan Bernier would bring back large returns for their team if they are traded at some point.

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06-15-2012, 02:46 AM
  #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
A goalie in the 1st round would be a waste of a pick with Lundqvist only being 30 years old.
Why? As was noted earlier, Goalies generally take 6-8 years to develop before they can take over as a starter. Now is the perfect time to get a blue chip goalie in the pipeline.

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06-15-2012, 03:40 AM
  #145
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How about Little creativeness?

We trade our number 28 to Carolina for their picks 38 and 47 (which was originally San Jose's pick that was then Used to acquire Ian White),

We trade our 47 plus the rights for Zuccarello to San Jose for defenseman Douglas Murray ( one year left at 2,5 M)

Essentially San Jose would be trading Murray for The rental of White and the RFA rights to Zuccarello. Maybe they balk here? Seems like their fans are asking for a 2nd plus for him on some boards though, this seems to fit that bill...

Murray is a big rugged experienced defender (479 NHl games - 32 years old) that imo would be perfect on the 3rd D-pairing that can play either side (lefty). He is tough as nails with a mean streak too and would be a nice stopgap until Big Mac (eventually) shows up. An excellent fighter, shotblocker, crease clearer and I am sure the garden would love the ugly SOB with the Sasquatch look (6'3" and 245 lbs).

We then have picks 38 (as opposed to 28) and 59 with one problem solved on defense. Especially if there are indications Schultz will resign elsewhere. Even if Schultz signs with us this makes the defensive depth a lot stronger.

We eventually use one pick on a goalie (depending who is left and when) and one on a home run fwd.

Or we offer them our 59 and a prospect/rights to Zuccarello straight up? And still trade down...

Maybe we also trade down our 4th rounder/#119 to say Dallas for their 2 fifth rounders (134 and 144) to get an extra pick. If there are several picks we like still left then. The Scott trade sure was a doozy

Just thinking....


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Old
06-15-2012, 03:48 AM
  #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
A goalie in the 1st round would be a waste of a pick with Lundqvist only being 30 years old. I wouldn't mind taking one, but not that high.

I want one of Kerdiles, Matteau, or Pearson, my favorite being Pearson because he has the most pure skill whereas Kerdiles and Matteau are bangers.
Matteau and Pearson were both gone in our mock draft and no trades are allowed. So, you see the position I was in. My draft preview article, which should be up next week, will go into what I think the Rangers should do more in depth.

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06-15-2012, 05:11 AM
  #147
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This draft is really a crap shoot from like the 15/20 pick to like pick 45ish or so. A lot of the players people want on here may be gone, or someone we never thought would make it to the Rangers may be there.

Looking at the draft order, from picks 20 to 30, I do not see any team needing to select a goalie, with the exception of may be the Devils (who are going to may be give up their 1st this year due to the Kovalchuk debacle).

Looking at the first ten picks in the second round, I can see the Blue Jackets, Oilers, Tampa (they have two picks here so I def think they will take a goalie with one of the two picjs if they don't make any deals), Toronto, and the Ducks possibly takung a goalie.

I am in the thinking that the Rangers need to take a goalie in the next two drafts with high potential. It will take a non-superstar potential goalie an average of 6 years to be ready to be a starter in the NHL. That puts Lundqvist at 36/37.

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06-15-2012, 07:35 AM
  #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
A goalie in the 1st round would be a waste of a pick with Lundqvist only being 30 years old. I wouldn't mind taking one, but not that high.

I want one of Kerdiles, Matteau, or Pearson, my favorite being Pearson because he has the most pure skill whereas Kerdiles and Matteau are bangers.
Kerdiles is not a banger. The same way Miller wasn't a banger.

Just because a guy plays with some grit doesn't mean they're a banger. He's an offensive player.

I don't care where Craig Button listed him. That's not how the draft will play out.

But i agree about drafting a goaltender.

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06-15-2012, 07:37 AM
  #149
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There is a Boston kid from Jeff Gorton's hometown of Reading,Mass. Sam Kurker. He played on the same midget/pee wee hockey team(Valley Jr. Warriors) as Chris Kreider. Massachusetts prep school kid. Going to BU in the fall. He was supposed to attend BU in the fall of 2013. 36th overall by Central Scouting.



http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/h...&position=also



http://hockeyjournal.com/news/prep/2...ep_star_Kurker

http://www.nhl.com/ice/draftprospect...Rank&year=2012
Although he has some nice size/strength and intangibles I'm not a huge fan of Kurker at #28, 2nd rounder.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Drafting a goaltender in the first round is a waste of pick.

He won't play for this team.
This team has wasted picks on some terrible forwards and Dmen, you want me to name them?

You have no idea how Henke's career will end. Richter, who was a well conditioned athelete, could not avoid injury and missed a good amount of his backend career.

Even if he never plays, if he develops he could become a piece of a trade that other teams can't match.


For the record, I'm not a Matteau or Pearson fan.

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06-15-2012, 07:37 AM
  #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UAGoalieGuy View Post
This draft is really a crap shoot from like the 15/20 pick to like pick 45ish or so. A lot of the players people want on here may be gone, or someone we never thought would make it to the Rangers may be there.

Looking at the draft order, from picks 20 to 30, I do not see any team needing to select a goalie, with the exception of may be the Devils (who are going to may be give up their 1st this year due to the Kovalchuk debacle).

Looking at the first ten picks in the second round, I can see the Blue Jackets, Oilers, Tampa (they have two picks here so I def think they will take a goalie with one of the two picjs if they don't make any deals), Toronto, and the Ducks possibly takung a goalie.

I am in the thinking that the Rangers need to take a goalie in the next two drafts with high potential. It will take a non-superstar potential goalie an average of 6 years to be ready to be a starter in the NHL. That puts Lundqvist at 36/37.
Devils are taking their pick this year which is somewhat mystifying but it's been announced--the only reason I can think for them doing so apart from Lou forgetting to inform the league altogether is they want either Subban or Vasilevskiy and that's even thinking they have legit goalie prospects in Kinkaid and Wedgewood and I think there's another guy. They all might turn out good but I think the problem is that none of them are likely to turn out to be Brodeur good. Marty, of course, intends to play next year now but his exit is not too far away and it has to be a concern even with a nice stable of goalie prospects. IMO--they need someone who can be a cut above an ordinary NHL starter.

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