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Old
06-13-2012, 07:29 PM
  #26
blankall
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A non-Vancouver fan posted a deal where they ask for Ballard/Raymond

Mind = blown

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Old
06-13-2012, 07:31 PM
  #27
KeninsFan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
Ballard is redundant in Vancouver but Kaberle is a pp specialist (at worst) which is exactly what Van needs since Ehrhoff left and Salo could be leaving as well.
Our PP has been fine.

Henrik ran/runs our PP not Ehrhoff.

What we miss is his lightning quick transition game (skating/passing).

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Old
06-13-2012, 09:14 PM
  #28
ProstheticConscience
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
I'd imagine Raymond would get in same range as bourque anyway so I don't see a conflict for cap.
Probably not. Raymond's got a long road ahead of him to start qualifying for raises again. Of course, it's entirely not his fault he got derailed so badly by a broken back and it's great he's been able to come back as far as he has, but the 25 goal scorer who finally figured out how to do something other than skate round and round the perimeter in the offensive zone really fast then fall down or turn the puck over needs to come back before he's getting a bump imho. Still good defensively and good on the PK, though. I'd really like to give him the chance to rediscover his game after a full offseason healthy, but I did slightly covet Borque from afar when he was in Calgary. Canucks need to get bigger and meaner, too.

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Old
06-14-2012, 03:23 PM
  #29
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As a fan of both teams, I'd do this trade. I don't know much about Grenier, but if he's on the same level as Avtsin, that's cool.

The others players all need a scenary change (maybe not Bourque, he hasn't really had enough time to fit in). The only thing that might be hard is the salary. What did Raymond make last year?

Kaberle is better than Ballard. Neither are great defensively (at least in their current situations) but Kaberle can still put up crazy points.

The Bourque from MTL is not quite as effective as Raymond, but the Bourque from Calgary is better.

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Old
06-14-2012, 04:28 PM
  #30
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I have mixed feelings about this deal.

I don't like Bourque or his contract cap hit/term, but I like Raymond less.

Kaberle is better than Ballard especially since I think he'd mesh fantastically with the Sedins on the power play as they're all smart passers. The difference isn't much but definitely an upgrade for the Nucks.

I like Grenier though, and don't know much about Avtsin.

Would you still do this deal if we scratched Grenier and Avtsin from it?

I'm not entirely sure I would but I think I *might* pull the trigger.

Bourque is a LW though so he'd be behind Daniel and Booth on the depth chart and I don't want to put neither Booth nor Bourque on their off-wing.

$3.333/year for a 3rd line LW is a rough price too.


I think actually that it's more optimal to trade Raymond elsewhere. Bourque's contract is just too heavy to make the slight upgrade from Ballard to Kaberle worth it. Can't stomach Bourque at $3.33 for 4 years.

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Old
06-14-2012, 04:50 PM
  #31
LyricalLyricist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GCM View Post
I have mixed feelings about this deal.

I don't like Bourque or his contract cap hit/term, but I like Raymond less.

Kaberle is better than Ballard especially since I think he'd mesh fantastically with the Sedins on the power play as they're all smart passers. The difference isn't much but definitely an upgrade for the Nucks.

I like Grenier though, and don't know much about Avtsin.

Would you still do this deal if we scratched Grenier and Avtsin from it?

I'm not entirely sure I would but I think I *might* pull the trigger.

Bourque is a LW though so he'd be behind Daniel and Booth on the depth chart and I don't want to put neither Booth nor Bourque on their off-wing.

$3.333/year for a 3rd line LW is a rough price too.


I think actually that it's more optimal to trade Raymond elsewhere. Bourque's contract is just too heavy to make the slight upgrade from Ballard to Kaberle worth it. Can't stomach Bourque at $3.33 for 4 years.
Doubt you'd find a better UFA for 3.33 a year tbh but I understand.

As for Grenier/Avtsin. Meh, I'd personally want it part of the deal. Habs need some incentive to downgrade and Grenier/Avtsin isn't so bad but Grenier is a local kid with size who should be knocking on the AHL door soon. In light of that, seems logical for me to suggest habs trade Avtsin(who isn't half bad, but not working out) for Grenier who may even end up worse. They're same age except Avtsin already has 2 years AHL experience.

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Old
06-14-2012, 04:53 PM
  #32
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I don't like Bourque - I think he is a poor defensive player who takes stupid penalties - and I don't think the Canucks need to "dump" Raymond (ie. if they can't make a better deal and they don't want him I'm sure they could send him to another team for an AHL contract).

I really, really don't like Kaberle - and if Keith Ballard doesn't fit here Tomas Kaberle fits even less. I think Ballard is improving and will be worth his contract before the end of it, with Kabs it seems like things are headed in the opposite direction (not to mention the fact that he is pillowy soft).

Grenier for Avtsyn, sure, whatever. But the NHL players in the deal, I would honestly rather trade for nothing than either of them - which may not be fair to Bourque but I just don't like him, personally.

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Old
06-14-2012, 04:55 PM
  #33
RespectYourEdlers
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I would do this deal too.
One of the better proposals on hfboards

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Old
06-14-2012, 07:13 PM
  #34
Vankiller Whale
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Although Grenier is 6'5 with a reasonable chance at being useful. For a team that wants to get "bigger and younger," I don't see why we'd trade him(unless Avtsin is of similar size)

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Old
06-14-2012, 07:25 PM
  #35
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2 bad contracts for 1, and we get older
ppl forget Ballard is not yet 30
pass, bigtime

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Old
06-14-2012, 10:54 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Although Grenier is 6'5 with a reasonable chance at being useful. For a team that wants to get "bigger and younger," I don't see why we'd trade him(unless Avtsin is of similar size)
Avtsin actually is close to Grenier in terms of height (6'3 vs 6'5) and age (6-7 months difference at worst), but he seems to be more of a 'long-term/high-upside' project than Grenier at this point (IMO) as he is still very raw and it is unlikely he makes the NHL in the next 2-4 few years.

That being said, if Avtsin develops well in the AHL and manages to put all of his great tools together, he could be a very good top-six forward in the NHL.

Right now, in his first two years in the AHL and on the smaller ice surface, Avtsin has posted unimpressive numbers, 34 points in 121 games, with the Hamilton Bulldogs.

Despite those underwhelming results, he has shown overall improvement on his hockey fundamentals and has, by some accounts, started to adapt to North America in general (learning the language, going out more, etc.), which could be potentially foreshadowing a later breakout on his part.

And so, I'd be hesitant to trade Avtsin and would rather we trade you a pick to balance the deal.

Kaberle
Bourque
4th (maybe low third)

Vs

Ballard
Raymond
Grenier
(7th round pick if we give up a third)

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Old
06-14-2012, 11:07 PM
  #37
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I'd do Bourque for Raymond, swap prospects if you want.

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Old
06-14-2012, 11:25 PM
  #38
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I like it. Always been a big Bourque fan. LOL I remember when Calgary fans were saying Bourque>Burrows

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Old
06-14-2012, 11:27 PM
  #39
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If the Canucks didn't have Booth I'd take a flyer on Bourque, but I don't think there's room really for both guys.

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