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06-12-2012, 05:59 PM
  #26
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This was a complete team win. Every line contributed to get this win. Carter and Richards are no exception. They have playoff experience, great character, are good team players, played in all situations, and contributed. We just won the Stanley Cup

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06-12-2012, 06:10 PM
  #27
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Grats on the cup. So the feeling is your roster was not good enough without Carter to be in contention for this?
I felt the kings had the roster to be the #1 seed, and 10/11 season showed this.
Obviously there was underachieving at times...bit even if you had not aquired Carter I thought you would contend.

both those guys helped a team win the cup...I don't think they carried it (some flyer fans at acting this way).

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06-12-2012, 06:15 PM
  #28
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Carter showed a lot of guts, skill, and poise in both the WCF and SCF. He had his big hat trick game against Phoenix in game two, putting us up 2-0 in the series. He had the monster overtime goal in game two against NJ, another important goal in game three, and of course the eventual Cup clinching goal in game six.

There are periods where he looks invisible offensively, but that's probably the nature of his game. He is solid in his own end, can kill penalties, and more than anything, provides that lethal shot the Kings SORELY needed. I mean, four goals in six games in the SCF. What more can you ask for?

Richards was everything as advertised. Without his god mode game one against Vancouver, who knows how that series turns out. Richards single handedly got under the Canucks' skin, drew all their attention, and paved the way for Brown to take over that series. He set a very clear tone, along with Brown, for how the Kings were going to play in the playoffs. Hard hitting, hard working, in-your-face, get-under-your-skin hockey, with the skill to finish the job. That's how the Kings played the entire postseason, and Richards set that blueprint in game one.

Both were key elements to the Kings winning, even if they didn't necessarily lead the charge. Like I said in another thread, this team is, was, and forever will be Kopitar and Brown's, but Richards and Carter were absolutely crucial in their supporting roles.

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06-12-2012, 06:21 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by achdumeingute View Post
Grats on the cup. So the feeling is your roster was not good enough without Carter to be in contention for this?
I felt the kings had the roster to be the #1 seed, and 10/11 season showed this.
Obviously there was underachieving at times...bit even if you had not aquired Carter I thought you would contend.

both those guys helped a team win the cup...I don't think they carried it (some flyer fans at acting this way).
I know what it looks like on paper, but something was missing without Carter. Even with Sutter, the Kings were out of the playoffs. Like others have said, when Carter was acquired, it opened up the ice for the 1st line and the 2nd line became almost as dangerous.

We needed Carter and Richards to make the playoffs and make the run to the playoffs. They didn't carry the team, I don't believe anyone did. But the Kings do not win the Cup without Carter/Richards.

Carter scored the cup winning goal. There's no denying this. It's hard to say what the team would've been done without certain guys, but when you look at the Kings before the Carter trade and after, the offense is night and day.

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06-12-2012, 06:23 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Richie10 View Post
Carter showed a lot of guts, skill, and poise in both the WCF and SCF. He had his big hat trick game against Phoenix in game two, putting us up 2-0 in the series. He had the monster overtime goal in game two against NJ, another important goal in game three, and of course the eventual Cup clinching goal in game six.

There are periods where he looks invisible offensively, but that's probably the nature of his game. He is solid in his own end, can kill penalties, and more than anything, provides that lethal shot the Kings SORELY needed. I mean, four goals in six games in the SCF. What more can you ask for?

Richards was everything as advertised. Without his god mode game one against Vancouver, who knows how that series turns out. Richards single handedly got under the Canucks' skin, drew all their attention, and paved the way for Brown to take over that series. He set a very clear tone, along with Brown, for how the Kings were going to play in the playoffs. Hard hitting, hard working, in-your-face, get-under-your-skin hockey, with the skill to finish the job. That's how the Kings played the entire postseason, and Richards set that blueprint in game one.

Both were key elements to the Kings winning, even if they didn't necessarily lead the charge. Like I said in another thread, this team is, was, and forever will be Kopitar and Brown's, but Richards and Carter were absolutely crucial in their supporting roles.
As an outsider, I agree with this. I believe 10/77 are excellent 2nd liners. We played them like 1sts, and marketed them like the faces of the franchise.
Stoll certainly wasn't a #2, but he's one of the best #3s in the league...

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06-12-2012, 06:29 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Buddy The Elf View Post
What I still don't get and probably will never understand is why the Flyers fans are bitter or dislike players that were traded away to which they had no control over. What exactly are the Flyers fans mad about?
That we now have won the Cup and they're stuck with a goalie making $8M a year that can implode at any time. They do have Simmonds, Schenn, Voracek and Coutourier but hey..

A Cup in hand is better than two in your dreams...


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06-12-2012, 07:28 PM
  #32
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Los Angeles went 29-9-3 after the Carter deal.

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06-12-2012, 07:34 PM
  #33
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Turns out the key to keeping the key Flyers players healthy into the playoffs was to have them on other teams. Richards always limped into the playoffs, then carter would break a bone in his foot every year. The Kings stayed pretty healthy and even got gagne back in the playoffs. I'm glad he got a cup with all that he's been through. Thanks for not letting the Devils win though

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06-12-2012, 09:37 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by kicksave27 View Post
Turns out the key to keeping the key Flyers players healthy into the playoffs was to have them on other teams. Richards always limped into the playoffs, then carter would break a bone in his foot every year. The Kings stayed pretty healthy and even got gagne back in the playoffs. I'm glad he got a cup with all that he's been through. Thanks for not letting the Devils win though
Carter was injured going into the playoffs but like always, he played through it. You could tell he was feeling better as the playoffs went on because his skating was so powerful.

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06-12-2012, 10:55 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
First of all, congrats from a Flyers fan!

Now, down to business. I have been assured by some Flyers fans that Richards and Carter had little to do with your team's victory. In fact, they say Carter was bad most of the time and pretty much invisible. They tell me that the Kings could have made the playoffs without them and contended, and had nothing to do with the Cup victory. I am told that they were inconsequential.

This confuses me, because I was under the impression (what with all the games I watched) that this is the opposite of what is true. So what is it Kings fans? Were Richards and Carter vital contributors? Or were they passengers, lucky to be allowed to ride the coattails of Quick, Brown, Doughty and Kopitar?
This is absurd. Even the most overtly biased fan will never had said this. I guarantee you there is not more than one goofball out there that said this. They changed every aspect about the Kings. The second Carter was aquired the Kings practically became unbeatable.

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06-13-2012, 12:00 PM
  #36
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Wow, imagine that, bitter Flyers fans trash talking Richards and Carter to make themselves feel better because they're not around anymore- what a shock...

I live in Philly and it's just sad to see some fans reduce themselves to that.

Carter was vital, we call saw that, from the time he arrived it changed the complexion of the team in an all upward arrow. He's good for 35 goals a year, and with Sutter, who I think has changed his game for the better, he's a much more facted player now, more aggresive than he was in Philly, I think he'll have his best year next year. (Imagine if him and Kopi hit 40 goals each)

Richards, there are very few players that have the intensity, desire and big dose of nasty he has. Basically, his high hockey IQ, being part wolervine and playing all balls and heart gives every team he's on a huge advantage-esp in the playoffs. If he wasn't hurt (I suspect Doan bouncing himn on his head with that filthy knee and skate move in the faceoff circle) he'd have contributed more.

Richards had been a leader who gotten the job done: since 2008, he's helped lead teams to 3 conference finals and 2 Cup finals.
Memorial Cup-Calder Cup - World Juniors Gold-Olympic Gold-Stanley Cup- no other player in the NHL has achieved that.
Dean Lombarid said it best the day of the trade, 'this kid's a pure winner'

And I think slotting behind Kopi is good for both of them. Richards taking the tough minutes will take the pressure off Kopi and give him a lot more freedom on the ice.
Richards loves playing defense (started out as D guy until he as about 12 when the other players got a lot bigger and the coach switched him to C) and if you listen to him, he always goes back to stressing keeping goals out, defending the zone, that's his game, and PK-he's a demon.

Individuals can win games, but it takes a team to win a championship. The Kings are one solid, very good team. And they are (or seem to be) very very close, they all speak of how tight they are and I think that showed on the ice. They're young (ave. age 26) and and having the core players signed and a GM that is not afraid to spend $$ to improve bodes well for the future

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06-13-2012, 12:07 PM
  #37
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We would not have made the playoffs without Richards and Carter. That says everything. They make us incredibly potent, without them we would be in dire straights when it comes to scoring and defense. We know all too well what it is like having fringe wingers and Stoll as a second line center. I don't see how anyone can doubt their significance, Carter was tied for the goal scoring lead with Brown and Kopitar, and Richards was spectacular, they both put up solid and very important point totals for us and saved a few goals against in the process. Vital.

But I go back to my previous point, we would not even be in the playoffs if not for them.

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06-13-2012, 12:23 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by deeshamrock View Post
Wow, imagine that, bitter Flyers fans trash talking Richards and Carter to make themselves feel better because they're not around anymore- what a shock...

I live in Philly and it's just sad to see some fans reduce themselves to that.
I don't know why I even bother arguing. Where is this different direction that the Flyers keep talking about? They traded Carter and Richards for younger guys that could become like Carter and Richards. They essentially hit the reset button. How is this 5 year run going to be any different from the last 5 year run? Because now they have Bryzgalov? Lol, ok.

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06-13-2012, 01:56 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by TruKingFan View Post
That we now have won the Cup and they're stuck with a goalie making $8M a year that can implode at any time. They do have Simmonds, Schenn, Voracek and Coutourier but hey..

A Cup in hand is better than two in your dreams...
They should be mad at the GM then.

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Originally Posted by jml87 View Post
I don't know why I even bother arguing. Where is this different direction that the Flyers keep talking about? They traded Carter and Richards for younger guys that could become like Carter and Richards. They essentially hit the reset button. How is this 5 year run going to be any different from the last 5 year run? Because now they have Bryzgalov? Lol, ok.
Yeah what I don't get and in addition to my post above, I don't understand why the GM didn't trade for some top end defensive prospects instead of forwards At the very least, I would think they would have moved one of Carter and Richards for a defensive equivalent of Schenn, Courterier or Voracek.

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06-14-2012, 12:34 PM
  #40
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Must read article written by Bobby Holik.
http://holikonhockey.com/bobby-blog/...ut-the-flyers/
Quote:
How can the media not call out the Flyers for trading these guys? After all, it was a sudden shift from when they drafted them, nurtured them, and then built a Stanley Cup Final team around these players. Two years later, they got rid of them, and they go on to win. I respect the media, but they need to question Paul Holmgren and Ed Snider, because it shows a deficiency in the way the Flyers conduct their business.

I have written in past blogs, the Flyers have been great at finding great skilled and character players. These kinds of players exist in abundance, but the hard part is maximizing their potential. If one looks back in the last two decades, you would find many players who were put in a tough spot by the organization. They put unreasonable expectations on some of these young men (Lindros) or sign them to ridiculous contracts as far term goes (Richards or Carter) and think their work is done. It’s not.

These players need nurturing, good management, and great coaching to become winners, because very few of them are born that way. Many Flyers fans might disagree, but the writing is not on the wall…it is going to be engraved on the Stanley Cup.

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06-14-2012, 01:06 PM
  #41
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I gotta say I thought it was a bad idea to play Carter on Richards' wing, because it never really worked in Philly and because that negates Carter's excellent face-off skills, but to me (biased as I am) Carter was your best forward during the Finals. Would you guys agree with that or am I wearing orange tinted glasses?

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06-14-2012, 01:13 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Bryz4shiz View Post
I gotta say I thought it was a bad idea to play Carter on Richards' wing, because it never really worked in Philly and because that negates Carter's excellent face-off skills, but to me (biased as I am) Carter was your best forward during the Finals. Would you guys agree with that or am I wearing orange tinted glasses?
Brown was the best forward. Kopitar #2. Then you get to guys like Carter, Richards, Penner and Williams. The best players were the best players, bottom line.

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06-14-2012, 02:28 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Bryz4shiz View Post
I gotta say I thought it was a bad idea to play Carter on Richards' wing, because it never really worked in Philly and because that negates Carter's excellent face-off skills, but to me (biased as I am) Carter was your best forward during the Finals. Would you guys agree with that or am I wearing orange tinted glasses?
I thought the same originally. It still drives me nuts sometimes, but I think they worked it out for the most part. Plus they were able to use Carter's faceoff skills by switching off between the left and right faceoff circles.

He wasn't the best but I'd say Carter and Richards were right behind Kopitar and Brown.

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06-14-2012, 02:40 PM
  #44
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Brown was the best forward. Kopitar #2. Then you get to guys like Carter, Richards, Penner and Williams. The best players were the best players, bottom line.
That's what was fantastic about this team, and also made guys like Carter and Richards better....they weren't the top tier players...and they really weren't expected to be given their roles on the team.

Top Tier - Kopitar, Brown, Doughty, Quick
2nd Tier - Richards, Carter, Penner, Williams, Mitchell, Stoll


and here is where the Kings cleaned up

3rd tier - King, Lewis, Voynov, Martinez, Fraser, Greene, Scuderi, Nolan, Richardson, Gagne (No one expected much because of the injury)


If you break it down

Top Tier - 56 points
2nd tier - 62 points
3rd tier - 37 points

The way the team was structured...unlike Philly...we didn't ask Carter and Richards to lead the team. We merely asked them to support the top players. And when you break it down like that, that's exactly what they did.

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06-14-2012, 04:10 PM
  #45
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I though tCarter for the most part was in the right place at the right time, but did not have a very strong post season through the first three rounds. But man did he show up in the finals. I will always be a JMFJ supporter, but watching the kings raise the cup made me conntent with that trade (I know I am late to that party).
I couldn't help but wonder if Smyth sent any congratulaiton texts or calls to any players.

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06-14-2012, 05:46 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Bryz4shiz View Post
I gotta say I thought it was a bad idea to play Carter on Richards' wing, because it never really worked in Philly and because that negates Carter's excellent face-off skills, but to me (biased as I am) Carter was your best forward during the Finals. Would you guys agree with that or am I wearing orange tinted glasses?
Outside of the goals he had a very understated, excellent playoffs and got stronger as the games got bigger. We always say Richards does all the little things right but Carter was right there, especially in penalty killing. I found that he used to stick check a lot but this season he was using his body more, he's never going to be a guy that puts a big hit on someone since that's never been part of his game, but he's consistently improving. I don't think he's quite hit his ceiling yet.

Also with Philly, he and Richards were playing against the Hawks in the final series and they shut down Toews' line and vice versa. Early last season they played together for a while before he was put on Giroux's line and Richie had the usual crappy players with him. Now they've had several months together and it really clicked from the start, and how great a luxury is it to have both of them be able to take face offs depending on the situation?

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06-14-2012, 09:14 PM
  #47
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Outside of the goals he had a very understated, excellent playoffs and got stronger as the games got bigger. We always say Richards does all the little things right but Carter was right there, especially in penalty killing. I found that he used to stick check a lot but this season he was using his body more, he's never going to be a guy that puts a big hit on someone since that's never been part of his game, but he's consistently improving. I don't think he's quite hit his ceiling yet.
I watched him for 6 years in Philly and he never played as complete a game, using his size and reach, as much as he's done since March. He never skated hard to beat an icing or chase down an opponet like he has now. He's definately a much better, more complete player. I think that is due to him realizing he would have to adapt to his new role on the team but mostly, I think it's Sutter. Sutter is the type of coach that if you don't play 200 feet of hockey, you don't play. And he's not beneath benching any player to get his point across. I think Sutter has shown he has the ability to bring out the best in each player individually and also as a team. THese players really seem to want to work hard for him, that standing Ovation they gave Sutter today at the Rally was genuine.

And Stevens did a good job when Carter was with the Phantoms and later whenStevens came to the Flyers teaching him how to use his size and reach to check. I thnk Carter has always been a good defensive player and Stevens has a lot to do with that.
I too, was surprised that he and Richie found chemsitry. I think the more they play, the better they;'ll be and esp PK next year. They really were (I felt) a great PK team these last couple of months.
Who knows, mayber Carter and Kopi each pot 40 goals next year...

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06-14-2012, 10:34 PM
  #48
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Richards and Carter were absolutely vital in the Cup run.

The addition of Richards bumped Stoll down to the third line, which suited him perfectly, and brought not only a playmaker on offense, but a great two way center, a leader, and a glue guy in the locker room who people will get behind and follow. It also "lengthed" the Kings forward depth, as now opponents could not just focus solely on taking Kopitar out of the game with their checking line.

Carter was instrumental as well, scoring some huge goals for the Kings, especially in the Finals. He will always have his critics -- people will say he does not throw his body around enough for a guy with his size, people will say he doesn't play "balls to the wall" enough like Richards does, people will say he too often builds stats up against weaker teams and fades against the top tier teams.

Be that as it may, Carter still brought something the Kings sorely needed: speed and finish on the wing. His versatility to play wing and center is a bonus. But if he's going to be a 30-40 goal scorer with a cap hit of 5.2 million, you can live with the fact that he doesn't throw his body around enough and sometimes appears to be coasting. For all the criticism he gets, the guy has tremendous speed, an excellent wrist shot, and plays in all situations (even strength, PP, PK).

That being said, both deals have DEFINITELY worked out for Philly. Schenn, Simmonds, Voracek, Couturier are all awesome players. I think Voracek is well on his way to being a better player than Carter, and when you consider that the Flyers also got Couturier in that deal, it was a big success. I disagreed with the Flyers when they dealt Richards, but they got some damn good players in return. Simmonds added some much needed help on the wing and Schenn is your "Mike Richards of the Future" as Bob McKenzie compared him to Mike Richards during the NHL Draft.

If you're a Flyers fan, you have Giroux, Briere, Schenn, Talbot and Couturier as guys that can give you great production at center. You're extremely deep at center. You have a good deal of talent on the wings with Hartnell, Voracek, Simmonds, JVR, Read, etc. It hurts seeing Richards and Carter raise the Cup right after you dealt them, but you have to be ecstatic about what you're building on offense.

Your offense was not the reason you lost. Your defense and goaltending were the reasons you lost. You missed guys like Pronger and Meszaros badly. Your D was all banged up. The guys on D that you were forced to play struggled a great deal vs the Devils aggressive-board-sealing forecheck. You never knew what you were going to get from Bryz.

If you guys had a healthier defense, I'm pretty sure you would've been the ones playing LA in the Cup.

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06-14-2012, 11:57 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
First of all, congrats from a Flyers fan!

Now, down to business. I have been assured by some Flyers fans that Richards and Carter had little to do with your team's victory. In fact, they say Carter was bad most of the time and pretty much invisible. They tell me that the Kings could have made the playoffs without them and contended, and had nothing to do with the Cup victory. I am told that they were inconsequential.

This confuses me, because I was under the impression (what with all the games I watched) that this is the opposite of what is true. So what is it Kings fans? Were Richards and Carter vital contributors? Or were they passengers, lucky to be allowed to ride the coattails of Quick, Brown, Doughty and Kopitar?
You are clowning, right?

Anyone who is paying attention knows how important both Richards and Carter were.

Hell, anyone who watched the FINALS knows this...Carter got the game-winning goal in OT after a beautiful move, and then got an important PP goal in game 3, and two more goals in the clincher.

Please.

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06-15-2012, 12:17 AM
  #50
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All the vital points have already been discussed, so I see no need in repeating them. Anyone who thinks Richards and Carter were not vital members of this Kings team either didn't watch the games or is lying to themselves.

With that said, I'm just personally so happy that these two ended up together on the Kings. The bromance lives on and we Kings fans will appreciate them forever for what they helped contribute to.

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