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Jay McClement’s days with Avalanche likely over

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06-14-2012, 10:41 AM
  #101
Ivan13
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Konopka can't fight, he can hug tough. And apart from faceoffs he's pretty much useless, if he loses the faceoff he loses his man most of the time.

Phalsson will get just as much as McClement and he's a worse and older player.

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06-14-2012, 10:47 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Ivan13 View Post
Konopka can't fight, he can hug tough. And apart from faceoffs he's pretty much useless, if he loses the faceoff he loses his man most of the time.

Phalsson will get just as much as McClement and he's a worse and older player.
I can pretty much guarantee that won't happen UNLESS someone overpays for Pahlsson on July 1st and McClement hires Tomas Vokoun's agent on June 30th and he signs with a team on July 7th.

You guys have really built-up Jay McClement into this unbelieveable, amazing, top 10 defensive players in the league when in reality he's just 'pretty good'. If the Avs end up replacing him with a guy like Halpern or Burish the difference will be negligible.

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06-14-2012, 10:52 AM
  #103
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I can pretty much guarantee that won't happen UNLESS someone overpays for Pahlsson on July 1st and McClement hires Tomas Vokoun's agent on June 30th and he signs with a team on July 7th.

You guys have really built-up Jay McClement into this unbelieveable, amazing, top 10 defensive players in the league when in reality he's just 'pretty good'. If the Avs end up replacing him with a guy like Halpern or Burish the difference will be negligible.
Sami Phalsson was paid 2.65mil this past season and you think he's going to take a big paycut? They'll both going to sign similar deals to the Phalsson's last contract.

And who in the God's name said McClement is a top 10 player defensively?

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06-14-2012, 11:11 AM
  #104
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I'm fine with Stastny playing more on the PK. He is great on faceoffs and I feel he elevates his play when he plays around 20 minutes a game.

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06-14-2012, 11:15 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Ivan13 View Post
Sami Phalsson was paid 2.65mil this past season and you think he's going to take a big paycut? They'll both going to sign similar deals to the Phalsson's last contract.

And who in the God's name said McClement is a top 10 player defensively?
I haven't, but he is. As a specialised defensive forward, there are very few players in the league who're better than him.

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06-14-2012, 11:20 AM
  #106
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Its time for brad malone full time on the avs.

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06-14-2012, 11:20 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Ivan13 View Post
Sami Phalsson was paid 2.65mil this past season and you think he's going to take a big paycut? They'll both going to sign similar deals to the Phalsson's last contract.

And who in the God's name said McClement is a top 10 player defensively?
Basically, anyone who figures a guy who's GOING to play as a 4th line center, be paid as a 3rd line center or anywhere close the figures that have been brought forth.

Pahlson's contract was a bad one and he didn't deliver in Columbus OR in Vancouver. At his age, it might be time to accept the fact that teams will be looking to sign him in a depth defensive role (like Halpern - he's not putting up 40+ points anymore). I would be very surprised if Pahlsson got over $2M unless there are teams out there who believe this guy could be a 3rd line center at this point??? That would be .

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06-14-2012, 11:33 AM
  #108
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Silent Jay should get paid and he should be playing here. Buddy is 29 yrs old why are we acting like hes 39? I want him resigned. Our PK is gonna be crap if we dont sign him imo

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06-14-2012, 12:47 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Bill Peckerskull View Post
What will suck is when he signs with a Western Conference or Division rival.

What will suck even worse is if he signs somewhere else for $2.5M or less, and ends up playing primarily a 4th line role with 3rd spot duty. Then our rationalizations will be out the window (though half the board will then come up with new ones.)

Avs are not going to outgun the top teams 1st lines, so we need to be better than most on 2-4, which is what I felt their plan has been for a few years now. But this is the kind of guy you have to overpay a little bit to keep your edge in depth, especially when injuries take out one of our top 3 centers, Jay is a great option on the 3rd.

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06-14-2012, 03:02 PM
  #110
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A shame to see McClement go, and I don't blame him for testing what most assuredly will be a monstrously inflated market, but there's only so much you should pay for a 3rd/4th line center, no matter how good he is. If he's unwilling to negotiate terms before July 1st, I don't blame management on this one.

Though it might also yield overpayment, I wouldn't mind seeing the Avs pursue Paul Gaustad and/or Jarret Stoll. I think both would be great additions.

The Avs do need to watch out for their PK tumbling back into the abyss. It's taken a very long and frustrating time for them to fix one of the worst PK units in the league. If they don't want to overpay, fine, but they better damn well have a contingency plan in place. And Brad Malone is not a sufficient contingency plan.

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06-14-2012, 03:07 PM
  #111
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4th line C are undervalued. Hopefully we replace him with a good one.

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06-14-2012, 03:09 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Av-merican View Post
A shame to see McClement go, and I don't blame him for testing what most assuredly will be a monstrously inflated market, but there's only so much you should pay for a 3rd/4th line center, no matter how good he is. If he's unwilling to negotiate terms before July 1st, I don't blame management on this one.

Though it might also yield overpayment, I wouldn't mind seeing the Avs pursue Paul Gaustad and/or Jarret Stoll. I think both would be great additions.

The Avs do need to watch out for their PK tumbling back into the abyss. It's taken a very long and frustrating time for them to fix one of the worst PK units in the league. If they don't want to overpay, fine, but they better damn well have a contingency plan in place. And Brad Malone is not a sufficient contingency plan.
Ok, so if you get Gaustad or Stoll, who's sitting? Or are you suggesting we bring back the disaster that was Duchene at LW again?? Neither of those guys are signing with the Avs to play as 4th line center.

Don't forget, PK isn't necessarily all about the forwards, there's TWO Ds out there and a goalie. We've upgraded those two positions significantly to help improve the PK.

I am pretty confident that the Avs will sign a depth guy to specifically play as the 4th line center (Burish or Halpern or a guy like that) and maybe some fans won't like it at first but when they show they can be pretty valuable pieces, most will realize that the Avs did the right thing here.

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06-14-2012, 03:36 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Bender View Post
Ok, so if you get Gaustad or Stoll, who's sitting? Or are you suggesting we bring back the disaster that was Duchene at LW again?? Neither of those guys are signing with the Avs to play as 4th line center.

Don't forget, PK isn't necessarily all about the forwards, there's TWO Ds out there and a goalie. We've upgraded those two positions significantly to help improve the PK.

I am pretty confident that the Avs will sign a depth guy to specifically play as the 4th line center (Burish or Halpern or a guy like that) and maybe some fans won't like it at first but when they show they can be pretty valuable pieces, most will realize that the Avs did the right thing here.
Why wouldn't Gaustad sign as a 4th line center with us? He played that role last year in Buffalo/Nashville. As for Stoll, I envision him doing the same center/wing thing both Duchene and Fleischmann did. When those two were together it didn't really matter who played wing. I realize both are longshots and that my reasoning isn't entirely sound, I just feel like both would be great additions, if not entirely pragmatic.

All I ask is that the Avs get a good 4th line center who can take defensive zone draws if need be and eat PK minutes so ROR isn't as horribly overworked as he was the 2nd half of last season.

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06-14-2012, 03:47 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Av-merican View Post
Why wouldn't Gaustad sign as a 4th line center with us? He played that role last year in Buffalo/Nashville. As for Stoll, I envision him doing the same center/wing thing both Duchene and Fleischmann did. When those two were together it didn't really matter who played wing. I realize both are longshots and that my reasoning isn't entirely sound, I just feel like both would be great additions, if not entirely pragmatic.

All I ask is that the Avs get a good 4th line center who can take defensive zone draws if need be and eat PK minutes so ROR isn't as horribly overworked as he was the 2nd half of last season.
I agree, we need a 4th line center but I'm not sold that he has to be a PK stud as we have a fair amount of players in the top nine that can share PK duties. In addition, as has been mentioned before, the upgrades on D and goalies contributed significantly to our better PK last season...it wasn't just the J Mac show out there.

As for ROR being overworked the 2nd half of last season, a lot of that was how due to how bad Duchene and Stastny (at times prior to the trade deadline) were playing as well as how injured Duchene was when he was playing. That shouldn't be a problem next season as both should be reporting to camp in shape and with good health.

As much as I like Jay, I really don't have a huge problem with him leaving if he gets some stoopid offer (which I'm sure he will get.)

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06-14-2012, 09:41 PM
  #115
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Replacing someone who single-handedly saved the penalty kill, has 553 games of NHL experience and is an alternate captain on the team with Olver would be a disaster.
The replacement of a single 4th line player is really never a disaster.

-AB

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06-14-2012, 09:43 PM
  #116
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You guys have really built-up Jay McClement into this unbelieveable, amazing, top 10 defensive players in the league when in reality he's just 'pretty good'.
Well said.

-AB

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06-14-2012, 10:25 PM
  #117
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Ok, so if you get Gaustad or Stoll, who's sitting? Or are you suggesting we bring back the disaster that was Duchene at LW again??
The whole reason people have made losing Jay McClement an issue is Matt Duchene's inability to handle big minutes last season. If Duchene steps up, then playing Paul Stastny and Ryan O'Reilly in more defensive situations makes all the sense in the world because of how good they are in their own zone.

If Duchene doesn't step up, then they need to trade him. Because if he plays like he did last year, a 1-2-3 punch of O'Reill-Stastny-Stoll is way better than Colorado's current trio. Especially if we see the horrid Mueller-Duchene-Hejduk line re-united...yuk.

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06-14-2012, 10:57 PM
  #118
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The whole reason people have made losing Jay McClement an issue is Matt Duchene's inability to handle big minutes last season. If Duchene steps up, then playing Paul Stastny and Ryan O'Reilly in more defensive situations makes all the sense in the world because of how good they are in their own zone.

If Duchene doesn't step up, then they need to trade him. Because if he plays like he did last year, a 1-2-3 punch of O'Reill-Stastny-Stoll is way better than Colorado's current trio. Especially if we see the horrid Mueller-Duchene-Hejduk line re-united...yuk.
But they played so well together..........for 20 games.........2 years ago

Sacco better not throw some combination of Duchene/Mueller/Hejduk/Olver out there together.

Landeskog-Duchene-Hejduk or Mueller-Duchene-Downie

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06-14-2012, 11:13 PM
  #119
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Sacco needs butt buddy Duchene and Mueller the way he has Lando and Radar as well as McG/Jones and Staz.

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06-14-2012, 11:50 PM
  #120
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Agree strongly with the notion that our top forwards will benefit from playing more minutes. Dutchy obviously needs to bounce back but even then we don't need him to shoulder the load. O'reilly and Staz have looked better at around 20 minutes. If our centers in some order each play something in the realm of 20, 18 and 16 mins per game that only leaves about about 6 mins for the 4th line. Obviously its not that simple as guys will overlap on the PP and PK but you get the idea.

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06-14-2012, 11:58 PM
  #121
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If these dudes are really going to be paid $5-$6M per year down the line they should be able to pony up some PK mins.

We shouldn't have to pay a specialist $3M to do it for them.

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06-15-2012, 07:07 AM
  #122
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I thought burish was a winger in chicago? Did he play center last year on the stars? Halpren and pahlsson seemed cooked last year in the playoffs. Halpren hardly played.

Sherm should trade a draft pick for a guy like jay beagle. Clutch playoff faceoff guy this past post season.

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06-15-2012, 07:24 AM
  #123
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We signed McLeod+Hunwick but not Jay? **** off. I would've been fine giving the combined cap hit of Hunwick and McLeod for this guy, he was a solid 3rd line option for us and these types aren't a dime a dozen unlike McLeod.
McLeod, Hunwick, Jones and not Jay? lolled for sure.

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06-15-2012, 07:35 AM
  #124
Ivan13
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I thought burish was a winger in chicago? Did he play center last year on the stars? Halpren and pahlsson seemed cooked last year in the playoffs. Halpren hardly played.

Sherm should trade a draft pick for a guy like jay beagle. Clutch playoff faceoff guy this past post season.
Burish is a RW if I'm not mistaken, but he's a great faceoff taker with 55.8% (most on Dallas) of them won, he and Ott (another winger) led their team in faceoff wins percantage by almost 5% infront of their best center (Fiddler).

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06-15-2012, 09:10 AM
  #125
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Burish is a RW if I'm not mistaken, but he's a great faceoff taker with 55.8% (most on Dallas) of them won, he and Ott (another winger) led their team in faceoff wins percantage by almost 5% infront of their best center (Fiddler).
You are right, he is a winger...I'm not sure why I thought he was a center, I must be confusing him with someone else.

He did take quite a few faceoffs and did quite well must have been filling in due to injury.

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