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Offseason Thread 2012 II: Offseason Harder

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Old
06-15-2012, 09:09 AM
  #201
Schenn10
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Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
Interesting article up on hockeybuzz today--the crux:



http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Dan-S...strom/93/44956

The gist of the piece is that the Panthers have been less than thrilled with Markstrom's progression over the past few years--even as they remain enamored with his overall potential. The writer suggests that the organization's desire to keep him in the AHL for another year might alienate Markstrom after next season, when he's RFA.

What about a goalie swap--Bobrovsky for Markstrom? Bob is more NHL ready now, has high-end potential, but has struggled to get consistent starts here. Markstrom is a bit younger, has a slightly lower cap-hit.

In a sense, it is a lateral move--a young, inconsistent Russian goalie for a young, inconsistent Swedish goalie. But Markstrom has a higher ceiling than Bob, IMO, and he should be at least as capable now in his 25-30 starts per year.

We'd likely need to add, though I have no idea how much.

Would it be worth it? I'm not sure. We still have Bryz locked in for the next decade, but injuries happen, and you never know what the team will look like in three years. Markstrom is more likely to be a 1A goalie in the league than Bob, I think.

Thoughts?
There is no way in hell Florida does that trade. League interest is reportedly very low for Bobrovsky right now (and I can see why after the season he just had). Markstrom looked extremely strong not only in the AHL last year, but when he played briefly in the NHL as well. Markstrom is a future stud for Florida, and has way more value than Bobrovsky at this point.

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06-15-2012, 09:09 AM
  #202
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
What about

To phx:
Brayden Schenn
Erik Gustafsson
1st in 2012
Rights to Matt Carle

To phi:
Oliver Ekman-Larsson
3rd round pick in 2012
I like OEL, but he's not worth Schenn, let alone Schenn + 1st.

Pass; quite an easy pass too.

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06-15-2012, 09:11 AM
  #203
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Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
Carle's rights are probably = 3rd. Phoenix is pretty stacked at D, so I don't see why they would use their budget cap space on Carle. They can just promote Gormley, etc.

The rest of the deal comes down to Schenn, Gus, and the 20th for OEL. On the one hand, it seems like an overpayment from us; on the other hand, I'm still not sure Phoenix would do it. At least for their fans, OEL is every bit as untouchable as Couturier--and more. At his best, Couturier is an all-star caliber 2C / 1B sort of player. OEL could be one of the top five or so defenseman in the league in a few years.

I'm really not sure we can pry him our of Phoenix for anything. If we could, it would probably be Couturier + instead of Schenn.

I think Matt Carle's rights are worth basically nothing right now. Teams know he has the terms for an agreement in place with the Flyers, and that he wants to return to Philadelphia, I can't see any team, especially a team like Phoenix which isnt a destination free agents are known to be highly willing to go to, giving anything for Carle's rights.

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06-15-2012, 09:15 AM
  #204
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
I like OEL, but he's not worth Schenn, let alone Schenn + 1st.

Pass; quite an easy pass too.
...what?

I'm not sure how you could think that, to be honest. Not wanting to add a late 1st? Ok, I suppose that makes sense. But do you really think that OEL < Schenn?

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06-15-2012, 09:18 AM
  #205
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Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
Carle's rights are probably = 3rd. Phoenix is pretty stacked at D, so I don't see why they would use their budget cap space on Carle. They can just promote Gormley, etc.

The rest of the deal comes down to Schenn, Gus, and the 20th for OEL. On the one hand, it seems like an overpayment from us; on the other hand, I'm still not sure Phoenix would do it. At least for their fans, OEL is every bit as untouchable as Couturier--and more. At his best, Couturier is an all-star caliber 2C / 1B sort of player. OEL could be one of the top five or so defenseman in the league in a few years.

I'm really not sure we can pry him our of Phoenix for anything. If we could, it would probably be Couturier + instead of Schenn.
Yea, unfortunately for us, I agree.

I think schenn, Gus and the 1st is good value. Probably more than fair value. But that doesn't necessarily mean that Phoenix does it, or even thinks about it.

Man would I love OEL though.

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06-15-2012, 09:18 AM
  #206
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Originally Posted by Schenn10 View Post
There is no way in hell Florida does that trade. League interest is reportedly very low for Bobrovsky right now (and I can see why after the season he just had). Markstrom looked extremely strong not only in the AHL last year, but when he played briefly in the NHL as well. Markstrom is a future stud for Florida, and has way more value than Bobrovsky at this point.
And yet Florida seems reluctant to go with him?

Again, it seems an absurd notion, but if that column is right, and there is a possibility that Markstrom walks after next year (though they control his rights, so I'm not sure precisely what the author was referring to there), then it would seem like they would need to consider their options.

Like I said, the Flyers would need to add--and it isn't really an organizational need at this point.

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06-15-2012, 09:21 AM
  #207
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
I like OEL, but he's not worth Schenn, let alone Schenn + 1st.

Pass; quite an easy pass too.
I'm not quite sure you know who OEL is...

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06-15-2012, 09:25 AM
  #208
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Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
And yet Florida seems reluctant to go with him?

Again, it seems an absurd notion, but if that column is right, and there is a possibility that Markstrom walks after next year (though they control his rights, so I'm not sure precisely what the author was referring to there), then it would seem like they would need to consider their options.

Like I said, the Flyers would need to add--and it isn't really an organizational need at this point.
Markstrom struggled in his first season in the AHL (2 years ago) and was hampered by injuries. Last year he thrived. They had Theodore and Clemmensen last year. Goalies develop very slowly, and if called up too quickly can lose confidence and have their development stunted.

I expect Markstrom will start between 40 -50 games this year in the NHL in a tandem, and take the full reigns the next year. Make no mistake, this guy is the real deal, I watched him early this year when he got some time due to injuries to Clemmensen and Theodore, he is huge and is unbelievably quick for his size. He was not sent back to the AHL due to poor performance, he was sent back so he could continue to get a full workload when Theodore and Clemmensen returned from injury.

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06-15-2012, 09:27 AM
  #209
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Originally Posted by Schenn10 View Post
Markstrom struggled in his first season in the AHL (2 years ago) and was hampered by injuries. Last year he thrived. They had Theodore and Clemmensen last year. Goalies develop very slowly, and if called up too quickly can lose confidence and have their development stunted.

I expect Markstrom will start between 40 -50 games this year in the NHL in a tandem, and take the full reigns the next year. Make no mistake, this guy is the real deal, I watched him early this year when he got some time due to injuries to Clemmensen and Theodore, he is huge and is unbelievably quick for his size. He was not sent back to the AHL due to poor performance, he was sent back so he could continue to get a full workload when Theodore and Clemmensen returned from injury.
Except this article states that Florida intends to send him back to the AHL again next season...

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06-15-2012, 09:29 AM
  #210
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Originally Posted by Schenn10 View Post
There is no way in hell Florida does that trade. League interest is reportedly very low for Bobrovsky right now (and I can see why after the season he just had). Markstrom looked extremely strong not only in the AHL last year, but when he played briefly in the NHL as well. Markstrom is a future stud for Florida, and has way more value than Bobrovsky at this point.
You know how people say "I'd drive him to the airport"?

I would carry him to the airport, if necessary.

Markstrom is the absolute real deal. If we had Markstrom and an amnesty clause came, I would easily toss Bryz and ride with Markstrom as our number 1 next season.... not even a question. This kid is the closest thing you'll find to a Pekka Rinne at an earlier development stage.

I was actually surprised that Florida didn't go with Markstrom last season.

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06-15-2012, 09:59 AM
  #211
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Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
Except this article states that Florida intends to send him back to the AHL again next season...
Yea I don't get that, unless they promised Theodore something. I don't really understand the point of the article though, Markstrom would be a RFA and would need to be offer sheeted to leave, which could easily be matched by the Panthers.

Hockeybuzz isn't the greatest hockey source, and that article doesn't make a lot of sense.

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06-15-2012, 10:06 AM
  #212
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Originally Posted by Schenn10 View Post
Yea I don't get that, unless they promised Theodore something. I don't really understand the point of the article though, Markstrom would be a RFA and would need to be offer sheeted to leave, which could easily be matched by the Panthers.

Hockeybuzz isn't the greatest hockey source, and that article doesn't make a lot of sense.
It appears to be verified by a thread on the Panthers board from another sources--I guess they want to adopt the Detroit model of "over-ripened" prospects?

Regardless, it seems the situation is more curious than dire for the Panthers with Markstrom. If, however, there is some sort of rift there--e.g., a Cody Hodgson-type scenario--it is something worth exploring...

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06-15-2012, 10:33 AM
  #213
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You know how people say "I'd drive him to the airport"?

I would carry him to the airport, if necessary.

Markstrom is the absolute real deal. If we had Markstrom and an amnesty clause came, I would easily toss Bryz and ride with Markstrom as our number 1 next season.... not even a question. This kid is the closest thing you'll find to a Pekka Rinne at an earlier development stage.

I was actually surprised that Florida didn't go with Markstrom last season.
And you know which team had a chance to select Markstrom at #28 in the first round in 2008 but instead dealt the pick away to the Capitals for Steve ****ing Eminger? (Yes, I know I made a post like this earlier about trading for Eminger instead of drafting John Carlson... I reserve the right to continue my unhealthily ranting and raving about easily the worst, most foolish and ill-advised trade in recent Flyers history.)

/shoots self in the face

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06-15-2012, 10:45 AM
  #214
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And you know which team had a chance to select Markstrom at #28 in the first round in 2008 but instead dealt the pick away to the Capitals for Steve ****ing Eminger? (Yes, I know I made a post like this earlier about trading for Eminger instead of drafting John Carlson... I reserve the right to continue my unhealthily ranting and raving about easily the worst, most foolish and ill-advised trade in recent Flyers history.)

/shoots self in the face
That move was completely uncalled for when it was made. I remember it to this day..I was pretty livid when they announced it. I was even more livid with Holmgren's rationale and explanation. Used that simpleton logic that it was a late pick (practically a 2nd) and they were trading for a more known commodity! Um yeah so having one good series against you but pretty much underachieving for most of the season made him a known commodity???


Last edited by FreshPerspective: 06-15-2012 at 10:50 AM. Reason: engrish corrections
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06-15-2012, 10:48 AM
  #215
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That move was completely uncalled for when it was made. I remember it to this day..I was pretty livid when they announced it. I was even more livid with Holmgren's rationale and explanation. Used that simpleton logic that it was a late pick (practically a 2nd) and they we're trading for a more known commodity! Um yeah so having one good series against you but pretty much underachieving for most of the seaon made him a known commodity???


Those 2 goals must have made a really big impression on Holmgren.

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06-15-2012, 10:53 AM
  #216
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Those 2 goals must have made a really big impression on Holmgren.
Shelley was Clarke's bright idea if you look back at all the discussion about that dumb acquisition..of course Holmgren had to agree with him. The Flyers and Rangers really outdid themselves in that episode of "Who can pay the most for the biggest goon."

Edit: Actually the logic used for getting Eminger if I recall more correctly was that we were acquiring a first rounder for essentially a second rounder but he also said the gibberish about already being a known commodity and some other alien ramblings. Ugh!

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06-15-2012, 11:06 AM
  #217
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With every single bad move Homer has made, you can point out good moves also. This is accurate for every GM in the league. Every trade or acquisition made by our GM will not be perfect, but he tries to improve the team as much as he can.

It's going to happen, you can not be right all the time.

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06-15-2012, 11:06 AM
  #218
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That move was completely uncalled for when it was made. I remember it to this day..I was pretty livid when they announced it. I was even more livid with Holmgren's rationale and explanation. Used that simpleton logic that it was a late pick (practically a 2nd) and they were trading for a more known commodity! Um yeah so having one good series against you but pretty much underachieving for most of the season made him a known commodity???
I wonder if McPhee could even stifle his laughter on the phone when Homer agreed to the deal.

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06-15-2012, 11:08 AM
  #219
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Shelley was Clarke's bright idea if you look back at all the discussion about that dumb acquisition..of course Holmgren had to agree with him. The Flyers and Rangers really outdid themselves in that episode of "Who can pay the most for the biggest goon."

Edit: Actually the logic used for getting Eminger if I recall more correctly was that we were acquiring a first rounder for essentially a second rounder but he also said the gibberish about already being a known commodity and some other alien ramblings. Ugh!
Yeah, known to be terrible and a bottom-pair/reserve NHL defenseman at best.

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06-15-2012, 11:15 AM
  #220
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
With every single bad move Homer has made, you can point out good moves also. This is accurate for every GM in the league. Every trade or acquisition made by our GM will not be perfect, but he tries to improve the team as much as he can.

It's going to happen, you can not be right all the time.
True, but Holmgren's bad moves tend to be dumb and/or mostly avoidable, which makes them extra annoying.

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06-15-2012, 11:18 AM
  #221
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Hey he was right handed

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06-15-2012, 11:25 AM
  #222
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True, but Holmgren's bad moves tend to be dumb and/or mostly avoidable, which makes them extra annoying.
Every bad move somebody makes is always easily avoidable and dumb(in real life and not just in sports)in hindsight. I just honestly think this fan base is too pessimistic and negative. I have always been a guy who sees the glass half full. Yes we traded for Eminger and signed Shelley, but we as a fan base need to move beyond those bad moves. Homer has, he doesn't sit and dwell on what could have been, he imagines what this team can be.

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06-15-2012, 11:27 AM
  #223
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Also who reported that Suter would only play out west? I can't freakin find it and I am getting frustrated.

Micheal Russo has stated he talked to Suter's agent and no list has ever been made. I just want to know because Micheal Russo is one of the more respected journalist in the business. I take his word over plenty of media out there, including all of ours

EDIT: It was Panotch lol Oh Christ, I take Russo's word over anything Panotch has said then.


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06-15-2012, 11:33 AM
  #224
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
Every bad move somebody makes is always easily avoidable and dumb(in real life and not just in sports)in hindsight. I just honestly think this fan base is too pessimistic and negative. I have always been a guy who sees the glass half full. Yes we traded for Eminger and signed Shelley, but we as a fan base need to move beyond those bad moves. Homer has, he doesn't sit and dwell on what could have been, he imagines what this team can be.
I'm not talking about hindsight though. There have been moves, for example Eminger and Shelley, where lots of people said, "Wow that's dumb," right away.

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06-15-2012, 11:38 AM
  #225
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I like OEL, but he's not worth Schenn, let alone Schenn + 1st.

Pass; quite an easy pass too.
Chris, you're not serious, are you? I would trade Schenn + 1st in a heartbeat, every day of the week, twice on sundays. He's just THAT good. To say he isn't worth Schenn is laughable, IMHO.


Last edited by Jray42: 06-15-2012 at 11:52 AM.
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