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Penner wants to return; will take salary cut to do so

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Old
06-15-2012, 04:21 AM
  #26
CNS
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
I agree about the Wings, but lets face it the Wings might as well be an East Coast team. Puddle jump flights.

Travel is a HUGE deal to East Coast guys.
Travel isn't fun for them heading to us/Ducks/Phoenix/Van. Those are all pretty long flights. To Minny/Chi/CBJ they're not bad but really outside of that, they do get longer flights.

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06-15-2012, 04:50 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by cnshockey View Post
Travel isn't fun for them heading to us/Ducks/Phoenix/Van. Those are all pretty long flights. To Minny/Chi/CBJ they're not bad but really outside of that, they do get longer flights.
Really want I meant to say was; I don't see the Wings remaining a Western Conference team for very much longer.

Their GM and Owner, are really pushing to get out of the West.

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Old
06-15-2012, 05:29 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
Really want I meant to say was; I don't see the Wings remaining a Western Conference team for very much longer.

Their GM and Owner, are really pushing to get out of the West.
Ah. Thought you were saying that at first but wasn't sure. Regardless, I think Detroit will remain a top location for him to land. If they do move east, it's just a bonus.

I'm curious how Dean/Dustin handle this? Will Deano just offer him a conny or will he wait and see what happens July 1 before making his offer? I'm sure if it is the latter, they'll have had talks and have some sort of tentative agreement in place/close to signed. But if Dustin really wants to re-sign, will he push for a contract? If Dean does want to wait for July 1, will Dustin wait as well or will he begin talking to teams right away?

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06-15-2012, 05:36 AM
  #29
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The amount of times DL hugged Stoll at the rally, I would say he would be back. And Penner would be too, Gracias Penner.

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Old
06-15-2012, 06:24 AM
  #30
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I'd say Penner gets 2y/7M and Stoll 2y/6M.

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06-15-2012, 06:59 AM
  #31
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While I support the idea of Penner resigning a low risk contract, you have to take some things into consideration.

Brown has essentially become our top left wing at this point in his career and I don't see any reason that changes. If Penner were to resign, we have a logjam at left wing, with Brown, Gagne, Penner, and King.

If Fraser resigns, as well, you're looking at a consistently scratched Brad Richardson. I don't know if that's good for the team or not, and I don't know if Dean or Daryl would like that, either.

You're also denying a kid a spot. Detroit didn't stay competitive for two decades by resigning the same 12 forwards and 6 defensemen year after year. Their rosters were always evolving, always being supplanted with youth that had paid their dues. Datsyuk was being shuttled around Detroit's bottom six for a few seasons before he had his break through. If we expect to follow that mold, we need to open one or two slots a season to allow a rookie to play his way in. Otherwise, we're just icing the same team, except one year older. I don't know if that's a recipe for perennial success.

I love Penner and Stoll right now just as much as anyone else. Both guys played their way out of fan purgatory with fantastic postseasons. I just don't know if either, much less both on multi-year extensions, is a good route going forward.

Maybe I'm totally wrong. I just wouldn't rule out the possibility of, for example, letting Stoll go, moving Lewis to third line C, and giving a kid like Linden Vey a taste of the pros. Just thinking out loud there, but you get the point.

I would just hate to see Dean try to capture lightning in a bottle two years in a row and have it blow up his face.

Luckily these are decisions for management and all we have to worry about is continuing to celebrate our Cup.

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Old
06-15-2012, 07:20 AM
  #32
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Brown-Kopitar-Williams
Penner-Richards-Carter
King-Stoll-Lewis
Gagne-Fraser-Nolan
Clifford-Richardson-Westgarth

That's 1 too many forwards. Someone won't be back.

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Old
06-15-2012, 07:45 AM
  #33
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Penner and Stoll have two options, in my mind, to stay with the Kings:

- Much lower discount for contracts of 2 or more years in length or
- Smaller discounts for one-year contracts

Personally, I hope they choose option 2 and I don't even like offering option 1. Option 2 is only available due to this being the last year in a low cap hit for Quick. It gives them a chance to stay with the team for one year as defending champions and everything that comes with that. It also gives them a chance to play a full season at the level of play expected by what they did in the playoffs. I like seeing the kids come up to the big club too and if they can beat these guys out, great. But for now, I don't mind having one season where there's a little more traffic in their way. That it isn't Moreau or Hunter is even better.

That being said, a one-year contract for guys approaching 30 that aren't going to get long, star-level contracts much longer isn't much security for them. I hope they will stay for the next year but will understand if they make other choices.

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06-15-2012, 08:59 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie10 View Post
While I support the idea of Penner resigning a low risk contract, you have to take some things into consideration.

Brown has essentially become our top left wing at this point in his career and I don't see any reason that changes. If Penner were to resign, we have a logjam at left wing, with Brown, Gagne, Penner, and King.

If Fraser resigns, as well, you're looking at a consistently scratched Brad Richardson. I don't know if that's good for the team or not, and I don't know if Dean or Daryl would like that, either.

You're also denying a kid a spot. Detroit didn't stay competitive for two decades by resigning the same 12 forwards and 6 defensemen year after year. Their rosters were always evolving, always being supplanted with youth that had paid their dues. Datsyuk was being shuttled around Detroit's bottom six for a few seasons before he had his break through. If we expect to follow that mold, we need to open one or two slots a season to allow a rookie to play his way in. Otherwise, we're just icing the same team, except one year older. I don't know if that's a recipe for perennial success.

I love Penner and Stoll right now just as much as anyone else. Both guys played their way out of fan purgatory with fantastic postseasons. I just don't know if either, much less both on multi-year extensions, is a good route going forward.

Maybe I'm totally wrong. I just wouldn't rule out the possibility of, for example, letting Stoll go, moving Lewis to third line C, and giving a kid like Linden Vey a taste of the pros. Just thinking out loud there, but you get the point.

I would just hate to see Dean try to capture lightning in a bottle two years in a row and have it blow up his face.

Luckily these are decisions for management and all we have to worry about is continuing to celebrate our Cup.
I couldn't care less about rookies and their playing time. I want another cup. We should ice the best possible team given the constraints of the salary cap. I suspect the best possible team involves icing the exact same team, exactly a year older. If we were SJ or Det, that would be a problem. As one of the youngest teams in the league, I see no reason to change for the sake of changing for the future.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KingsFan7824 View Post
Brown-Kopitar-Williams
Penner-Richards-Carter
King-Stoll-Lewis
Gagne-Fraser-Nolan
Clifford-Richardson-Westgarth

That's 1 too many forwards. Someone won't be back.

Depth is a good problem to have. Can you honestly count on Gagne to give you a full year? We were extremely lucky with injuries this year, but we still missed Richards, Carter, Stoll, and obviously Gagne for several games.

Having the extra top 6 forward gives flexibility, especially with the number of people who can play multiple positions. If one of the centers goes down, simply shift Carter to C, Gagne up to the top 6, and we'd be fine. Does anyone really want to see Richardson in a Top 6 role ever again?

Injuries happen. Depth is a good thing.


Last edited by driller1: 06-15-2012 at 09:51 AM.
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Old
06-15-2012, 09:30 AM
  #35
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I think the whole divorce thing messed him up big time,

Funny you say that, anyone else noticed he was wearing a wedding ring at the rally?

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Old
06-15-2012, 09:55 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingsFan7824 View Post
Brown-Kopitar-Williams
Penner-Richards-Carter
King-Stoll-Lewis
Gagne-Fraser-Nolan
Clifford-Richardson-Westgarth

That's 1 too many forwards. Someone won't be back.
I say Clifford goes to the AHL to be top line winger and work on some stuff. Its better for Richardson or Westgarth to sit all the time than Clifford.

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06-15-2012, 10:28 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie10 View Post
You're also denying a kid a spot. Detroit didn't stay competitive for two decades by resigning the same 12 forwards and 6 defensemen year after year. Their rosters were always evolving, always being supplanted with youth that had paid their dues. Datsyuk was being shuttled around Detroit's bottom six for a few seasons before he had his break through. If we expect to follow that mold, we need to open one or two slots a season to allow a rookie to play his way in. Otherwise, we're just icing the same team, except one year older. I don't know if that's a recipe for perennial success.
Not saying you don't have a point here, but I think you're using a bad example. Detroit is a team that consistently choose veterans to play instead of their kids. They even let Kyle Quincey go for free in order to keep Chelios in his last season, then later traded a first rounder to get Quincey back. They use guys like Draper, McCarty, Osgood, Modano and so on all the time in favor of young guys, and they're always one of the oldest teams in the league.

I don't think icing the same team one year older when you're one of the youngest teams in the league is a terrible thing. Besides, I can't really think of any high end prospects in the organization that are knocking the door down after paying their dues. The closest thing would be Holloway but he didn't stick with it.

I think Fraser should stay. Remember how much the fourth line struggled to have an identity before he came on board? He really brought that grit and mentality needed for that line, even though he's not exactly big contributor in other ways. I say we keep him around, worst case scenario you waive him and let some team pick him up as a two time stanley cup champ and mentor for their young guys and you let Cliche take his spot.

As far as Penner and Stoll go, I'd bring them back on shorter term if they'd agree to take a paycut. I really think Penner has turned a corner. The problem is now we've gotta fit Gagne in somehow, and with the emergence of King it's gonna be crowded. I certainly don't wanna split Brown and Kopitar up as a LW-C pairing, so where does that leave us?

Brown-Kopitar-Williams
Penner-Richards-Carter
King-Stoll-Lewis
Gagne-Fraser-Nolan
Clifford-Richardson-Westgarth

It sucks to have Clifford and Richardson as scratches, they both deserve better. I guess having Cliffy play the AHL wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

It's gonna be interesting to see what direction the Kings choose to go. I'm guessing at least a few pieces are gonna be traded to make up for some of the lost draft picks. I really think we should hang on to Clifford, he had a sophomore slump but he's gonna be a key component going forward I think. King has struggled with consistency in the past and that was always the knock on him as a prospect. I wouldn't be surprised to see him struggle now that he's gonna have to start over from scratch after the rush of first joining the NHL team, then going to the playoffs then winning the cup. It might be challenging for him to keep his play up from the start of a brand new, long season.

And I don't think Lewis replacing Stoll is a great idea, first of all Lewis has been great at wing. Then there's faceoffs, you're almost going from 60% to 40% and for a puck possession line like the third line was, at least in the playoffs, that's a huge negative.

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06-15-2012, 10:42 AM
  #38
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Really the article says he was "asked if he would settle for something different." Maybe he's going to play for flapjacks!


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Old
06-15-2012, 10:43 AM
  #39
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I can see a 2yr 6-6.5

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06-15-2012, 10:46 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Oilmageddon View Post
He will get a minumum of 3 million book it.
My opinion is the same. 3 to 3.5 is fair.

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Old
06-15-2012, 10:57 AM
  #41
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Unfortunately its about the bottom line $ for agent and if the Kings are going to offer less then I can see the agent dragging this to July 1st and have higher offers pouring in. Then we shall see how committed Penner really is to the Kings

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06-15-2012, 10:58 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by cnshockey View Post
God I hope you're kidding. At MOST, one year, $2M. He wants more, don't let the door hit your fat ass on the way out. He was good in the playoffs but he sucked when we first traded for him, sucked in the playoffs last year, sucked this regular season. 20 game good stretch for us. You can't just forget that he was bad before this playoffs. If he wants that deal, I'm all for it. But anymore than $2M or $2.5M TOPS, I'd be very upset with.
Why do you care what he gets paid? The Kings have plenty of Cap room and if it stays at $70M+ (or whatever it is suppose to go up to), where are you going to find a better player for ~$3-4m a year? If the Kings can bring him back on a 2 year deal for around $6m, I think they'll do it. Both he and Stoll will probably take a bit of a discount to stay but you aren't going to pay them peanuts because they do have a bit of leverage with their UFA status.

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Old
06-15-2012, 11:08 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingsFan7824 View Post
Brown-Kopitar-Williams
Penner-Richards-Carter
King-Stoll-Lewis
Gagne-Fraser-Nolan
Clifford-Richardson-Westgarth

That's 1 too many forwards. Someone won't be back.
Richardson won't be back, Westgarth is probably gone.

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06-15-2012, 11:31 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by BerniernextRoy View Post
Richardson won't be back, Westgarth is probably gone.
Richardson has one more year on his contract

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06-15-2012, 11:37 AM
  #45
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On Penner
.Option A
1 yr deal with an option of another year
- 3 million
- 3.75 based on his performance in the previous year.

Option B
2 year deal of $3 million per year but is incentive driven to a max of $3.75 million based on performance.

If he resigns the players likely to be traded or bought out is a player or two or four of them.
- Gagne
- Richardson
- Loktionov
- Westgarth

On Stoll, I really like him. But, we can get a 3rd line center at $2.5 million. In retrospect, I will put Lewis as our 3rd line center and let Stoll walk or trade his rights on draft day.

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06-15-2012, 11:48 AM
  #46
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Richardson has one more year on his contract
Traded at the draft is my guess.

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Old
06-15-2012, 12:00 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingsFan7824 View Post
Brown-Kopitar-Williams
Penner-Richards-Carter
King-Stoll-Lewis
Gagne-Fraser-Nolan
Clifford-Richardson-Westgarth

That's 1 too many forwards. Someone won't be back.
Well... Sutter's made it clear he doesn't think Enforcers should exist so if Westgarth doesn't re-remember his hockey skills it's going to be him.

Richardson perfect. Has enough skill to fill-in if needed on anywhere. No reason not to have him on the team.

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Old
06-15-2012, 12:12 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by TonySCV View Post
Penner said of the chances of returning to the Stanley Cup champions, "I'd say they're pretty good. I want to be back." Asked if he would settle for something different in regards to his salary, he said yes."
Because he is expecting more.

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Old
06-15-2012, 12:13 PM
  #49
Buddy The Elf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Judge View Post
On Penner
.Option A
1 yr deal with an option of another year
- 3 million
- 3.75 based on his performance in the previous year.

Option B
2 year deal of $3 million per year but is incentive driven to a max of $3.75 million based on performance.

If he resigns the players likely to be traded or bought out is a player or two or four of them.
- Gagne
- Richardson
- Loktionov
- Westgarth

On Stoll, I really like him. But, we can get a 3rd line center at $2.5 million. In retrospect, I will put Lewis as our 3rd line center and let Stoll walk or trade his rights on draft day.
I'm pretty sure the CBA doesn't allow for player or club options nor does it allow for bonuses on anyone except 35+ y/o and players on an ELC. I suppose that could change in the summer but right now I don't believe those exist.

If the Kings can bring back Penner and Stoll for a collective $5-6m a year, they should. That leaves plenty of room for Quick to be re-signed and a pipe dream of Parise. The bottom line is you aren't going to find anyone on the UFA market that has the potential of Penner at his age and the Kings really have nobody in the system on the left side with that skillset. They are best to bring him back as cheaply as possible and make him earn another raise. But I do think both he and Stoll will be able to get 2 year deals if they want them and both will be back. Who knows.. they both might want one year deals ot increase their value for the following summer. I did notice DL with his arms around both Fraser and Penner yesterday during the Rally. I think all 3 will come back and there is no reason to complain if they do. This is a ****ing Championship team and people are still whining about the roster and how much they get paid.

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Old
06-15-2012, 12:15 PM
  #50
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Outsider opinion here. What if the Kings let Stoll and Penner go, move Carter back to centre, and sign Parise? Could end up with 3 pretty potent twosomes on each line 5on5

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