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Gomez: What's Being Done?

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Old
06-15-2012, 09:09 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
Well, we've hit the opening of the buyout period, anyway. Not that there is any big expectation that a buyout would be the answer, but if that's the way management was leaning they could get on it now. We'll soon be able to cross that option off the list, if nothing else.
I think there is a second one in August, which may get delayed due to the CBA.

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06-15-2012, 09:28 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I think there is a second one in August, which may get delayed due to the CBA.
Isn't that related to the arbritration process though?

As far as dealing with big G, I believe we should just stick it out for one more year and buyout his last year if no other option arises.

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06-15-2012, 09:32 AM
  #53
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I don't think it's as big of a deal is Gomez is on the books next year. It's the NEXT year, 2013/14 where we really need cap room for a wave of great incoming entry-level contracts. That's when Gomez MUST be gone. For this year, obviously, it would be better to move him, but I don't see that happening. So the likely scenario is having him back for one more year and making the best of it. A healthy Gomez -- remember, he was injured for most of last season -- can be a decent third-line forward, much to everyone's shock. Then, by mid-season, once he's demonstrated a semblance of ability, we can shop him around with a straight face. 2012/13 is a rebuilding year anyway, and most of the pieces we need for the future are in the minors or yet to be drafted. Gomez's contract doesn't cripple us right now since that money isn't going to be spent on a big UFA contract next month (Parise and Suter aren't coming - sorry). Gomez has absolutely zero value to any other team right now, so I can see the Habs letting him play and polishing him up for a future deal, which becomes possible if he's healthy and his unhealthy contract expires a year later.

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06-15-2012, 09:42 AM
  #54
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I think we call all agree that last year was a complete mess for the team and for Gomez. It's no excuse but between the injuries to himself and his linemates, the pressure of his contract, the coaching and management circus and the demotion to the 4th line with wingers like Staubitz and Weber, it wasn't a great situation for Gomez.

If Gomez would be effective on the wing, he could be a decent option. But that's the problem. He can't play wing at all. So he's either on the 4th line or they have to move Eller to the wing if Gomez is to stay on the team. Both options aren't good.

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06-15-2012, 10:13 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I think there is a second one in August, which may get delayed due to the CBA.
Yeah, only if you have arbitration hearing awards, though. They wanted to give teams an out in case they were saddled with any unexpectedly large arbitration rulings. I don't know if any of our players are going to go that way or not. Price is the only significant candidate, I believe? But we'll know if he files at around the same time as this buyout window closes. If he doesn't file, then for sure Gomez won't be bought out. But I'd think that if management was seriously considering the buyout option, they'd be looking at this window anyway, since our cap situation probably isn't so tight that it's going to be affected much by arbitration anyway.

If this window closes, then I think it would really signify that the other options are far and away the leading candidates... (i.e. they are going to exile him, and/or give him a chance to make the team in camp, or they are just going to wait and see if the new CBA brings in any compliance buyout options first.)

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06-15-2012, 10:16 AM
  #56
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There is no rush in the case of Gomez.

The season starts in four months, and the new CBA (or lockout) will dictate where Gomez gonna play (or not) next season.

Anything can happen, but I am not expecting it's gonna be in a near future.

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06-15-2012, 10:21 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
Yeah, only if you have arbitration hearing awards, though. They wanted to give teams an out in case they were saddled with any unexpectedly large arbitration rulings. I don't know if any of our players are going to go that way or not. Price is the only significant candidate, I believe? But we'll know if he files at around the same time as this buyout window closes. If he doesn't file, then for sure Gomez won't be bought out. But I'd think that if management was seriously considering the buyout option, they'd be looking at this window anyway, since our cap situation probably isn't so tight that it's going to be affected much by arbitration anyway.

If this window closes, then I think it would really signify that the other options are far and away the leading candidates... (i.e. they are going to exile him, and/or give him a chance to make the team in camp, or they are just going to wait and see if the new CBA brings in any compliance buyout options first.)
I don't think bringing him to camp and giving him a shot is a realistic option unless they have no good candidates to spend 7 mil cap space on.

You have to build your roster pretty much by August 1st, that gives you the next 6 weeks to sign your RFA's UFA and other UFA's or make trades. If you want to get a winger and a stay at home d-man to plug holes, you can't wait until October to see how Gomez looks to sign somebody because by then all the good buys are gone. In the cap world you build 90% your NHL team from mid June to August 1st and tweak the other 46 weeks of the year.

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06-15-2012, 10:25 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gillyguzzler View Post
I think we call all agree that last year was a complete mess for the team and for Gomez. It's no excuse but between the injuries to himself and his linemates, the pressure of his contract, the coaching and management circus and the demotion to the 4th line with wingers like Staubitz and Weber, it wasn't a great situation for Gomez.

If Gomez would be effective on the wing, he could be a decent option. But that's the problem. He can't play wing at all. So he's either on the 4th line or they have to move Eller to the wing if Gomez is to stay on the team. Both options aren't good.
At face value you're right. Gomez did practically nothing. But then again, neither did Bourque, or Cammalleri before he was traded. Then you have all the walking wounded whose face-value performance was dismal: Gionta, Markov, White. Bottom line: the entire season was one huge slow-start that turned out to be the only start they had. If there was ever a reason to pull a "Dallas" (the TV show, not the team) and dismiss the entire year as a bad dream, this was it. So yeah, I'm willing to gamble that Gomez was a symbol of everything else that went wrong, and that maybe - just maybe - Therrien can find something left in his tank. If Bobby Ewing can return from the dead in the 80s and then return for a new series in 2012, the least Gomez can do is put the damn puck in the net a few more times in 2013.

When all other options are closed, the new guy screaming to head up ice might be the only path he has left.

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06-15-2012, 10:36 AM
  #59
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IMO, the Gomez decision says a lot about Geoff Molson and his intentions with this franchise.

If he is committed to a winning product, he will dump gomez in the minors.


No Buyout, no 4th line NHL time..

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06-15-2012, 10:51 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by cjbhab View Post
IMO, the Gomez decision says a lot about Geoff Molson and his intentions with this franchise.

If he is committed to a winning product, he will dump gomez in the minors.


No Buyout, no 4th line NHL time..
Yup, that pretty much sums it up.

If he is willing to saddle his rookie GM with 7 or 8 mil of dead cap space the next two years with a buyout or re-entry waivers just to save a few bucks then he is not committed to winning.

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06-15-2012, 11:14 AM
  #61
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Won't be back .

My bet he will play in Europe next year. If he have a good season a team might take a chance on him the year after

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06-15-2012, 11:31 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I don't think bringing him to camp and giving him a shot is a realistic option unless they have no good candidates to spend 7 mil cap space on.

You have to build your roster pretty much by August 1st, that gives you the next 6 weeks to sign your RFA's UFA and other UFA's or make trades. If you want to get a winger and a stay at home d-man to plug holes, you can't wait until October to see how Gomez looks to sign somebody because by then all the good buys are gone. In the cap world you build 90% your NHL team from mid June to August 1st and tweak the other 46 weeks of the year.
Well, even if Gomez is ultimately going to be the victim of a compliance buyout (post Sept. 15th) or demotion to the minors (Sept/Oct), he's going to be on our cap until then. (Unless bought out NOW).

So I don't see how it affects things either way. I'd *try* to improve the team by using the 10% allowance to spend over the cap on July 1st. If I can succeed with that, great, if not, yikes - bad news for our team for the upcoming season. But either way, we still have Gomez. And you can't just ban him from attending training camp if he's there on a legit NHL contract and there isn't a work stoppage due to the CBA issue.

But hey, at least maybe we can lure extra quality free agents again... guys, we have the legendary Scott Gomez on our team, come and sign with us. Some people think that worked in the past, maybe it can work for us again. Although maybe we have to change the sales pitch... "see what a great organization we are, how well we pay our players, and keep paying them even after they underachieve... we didn't even buy out Scott Gomez... sign here, we have excellent benefits and offer superb job security... "

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06-15-2012, 11:35 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habitue View Post
There is no rush in the case of Gomez.

The season starts in four months, and the new CBA (or lockout) will dictate where Gomez gonna play (or not) next season.

Anything can happen, but I am not expecting it's gonna be in a near future.
agreed. I think the Habs will be aggressive on the trade front in the next 3 weeks as well as on July 1st. If moves can be done and additions from UFA, then the Habs will make the decision of sending him down, if not I sadly expect him to start the year in Montreal

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06-15-2012, 12:34 PM
  #64
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if the team completely strikes out in the UFA market and in attempts at making a trade, I could see Gomez being brought back and given one last shot at being a useful top-9 player... with the very clear idea that if he falters in camp or early in the season, he's got a one-way ticket to Hamilton for the rest of the year (barring unlikely trade).


If, however, any other alternatives to improve the team this summer are available and require some of his cap space, then it's off to Hamilton if no takers are found.


buy-out (unless an amnesty situation) should not be an option, period.


In an ideal world, the cap goes up significantly (and the cap floor with it), and one of the lower budget teams decides to take a shot at him finding his game with a change of scenery, and is willing to risk the 10M$ owed to him to find out (benefiting in the process of the extra ~5M$ cap hit that he comes with to help them navigate the cap floor).

i really don't think it's such a far fetched idea that some team is willing to take him off our hands for "free", or perhaps with us throwing in a token late draft pick or prospect that doesn't fit into our plans.

quite a few teams with internal budgets have a need at Centre, and if the cap floor goes up again this year, taking a risk on Gomez in a situation where his cap hit is actually a bonus, could make a lot of sense

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06-15-2012, 01:46 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
...
In an ideal world, the cap goes up significantly (and the cap floor with it), and one of the lower budget teams decides to take a shot at him finding his game with a change of scenery, and is willing to risk the 10M$ owed to him to find out (benefiting in the process of the extra ~5M$ cap hit that he comes with to help them navigate the cap floor).

i really don't think it's such a far fetched idea that some team is willing to take him off our hands for "free", or perhaps with us throwing in a token late draft pick or prospect that doesn't fit into our plans.

quite a few teams with internal budgets have a need at Centre, and if the cap floor goes up again this year, taking a risk on Gomez in a situation where his cap hit is actually a bonus, could make a lot of sense
They aren't exactly revealing a lot about the details of forthcoming CBA sticking points, but I think there are two relevant "possibilities" here... that the league will want to reduce the player %age down towards 50%, and that the players will want to get the escrow out of the way. If the player % goes down, then that's likely to be a mechanism for reducing the cap in the new CBA, not making it larger. I mean, as the league has proven over the course of this current CBA, revenues will still likely continue to climb annually, and the players will make it back to the same net earnings in a relatively short timeframe. But in the most immediate sense, it seems more likely that the cap will go down than up.

At the same time, it is arguably an area of concern that the revenue sharing system is not working too well, and that the cap range is a little too tight to fit the practical realities of the NHL franchise landscape. They could end up tweaking some elements of that, and expanding the range to better accommodate the disparities between the have and have-not markets. A $16M range may become something bigger, effectively lowering the cap floor, and thereby again impacting any hypothetical value Gomez might have to a floor team.

All conjecture, of course. The bright side of a cap reduction, however, is indeed the increased likelihood that it would almost *have* to be packaged with some form of compliance buyout provision.

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06-15-2012, 02:25 PM
  #66
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With the new management in place, I would be shocked if Gomez were on the roster regardless of the new CBA. With the thorough house cleaning in the management ranks, the organization clearly wants to turn the page on the recent dismal past.

Going forward with Gomez in the fold makes no sense from any psychological standpoint. Gomez is rightfully associated with failure-on so many levels. The Canadiens are extremely financially successful, so while sucking up Gomez' $15m remaining cap hit (I'm assuming the team spends to the cap) is not cheap, it's an extremely doable option.

The Wade Redden situation has already created a precedent for a respectable organization to bury a high-priced albatross in the minors. Why wouldn't the Canadiens wouldn't follow this established blue print?

Gomez will be playing in Europe or the AHL this season. The Habs can't start anew with him on the big team.


Last edited by Cyclones Rock: 06-15-2012 at 02:54 PM.
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06-15-2012, 02:44 PM
  #67
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With the new management in place, I would be shocked if Gomez were on the roster regardless of the new CBA. With the thorough house cleaning in the management ranks, the organization clearly wants to turn the page on the recent dismal past.

Going forward with Gomez in the fold makes no sense from any psychological standpoint. Gomez is rightfully associated with failure-on so many levels. The Canadiens are extremely financially successful, so while sucking up Gomez' $15 remaining cap hit (I'm assuming the team spends to the cap) is not cheap, it's an extremely doable option.

The Wade Redden situation has already created a precedent for a respectable organization to bury a high-priced albatross in the minors. Why wouldn't the Canadiens wouldn't follow this established blue print?

Gomez will be playing in Europe or the AHL this season. The Habs can't start anew with him on the big team.
Good news for Molson is that it only costs him 5.5 and 4.5 mil the next two years to "eat" Gomez's 7.35 x 2 cap hits in the minors/Europe.

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06-15-2012, 02:49 PM
  #68
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Good news for Molson is that it only costs him 5.5 and 4.5 mil the next two years to "eat" Gomez's 7.35 x 2 cap hits in the minors/Europe.
True. However, if the Habs spend to the cap-which they seem to always do-the full value of the Gomez cap hits (roughly $14.7 million) will ultimately be spent by the team in new salaries plus the $10 million which Gomez will be paid.

The total cost to the team of spending to the cap and paying Gomez his "off cap" salary will be in the $25 million range over the next two seasons. That's more than Ovechkin costs the Capitals or Stamkos costs the Lightning.

Ouch.

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06-15-2012, 03:00 PM
  #69
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Anyone who thinks Gomez is coming back to thr Habs should give their heads a shake! He is as good as gone! The new regime will not keep thr biggest, most expensive bust in team history in the line up. Where dies he fit anyway? Wing? No! Centre the 3rd line and screwing Eller over? Nope! Gomez is finished in Montreal. Anyone thinking he is coming back just don't wavt to get their hopes high unless he did come back but their is ZERO chance of it

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06-15-2012, 03:03 PM
  #70
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Plus, we need to make room for Damien Brunner

(Note - this is not any kind of a source. It's me taking a wild guess now that it is being reported the two front-runners, Pit and TB, missed out on him.)

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06-15-2012, 03:33 PM
  #71
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Plus, we need to make room for Damien Brunner

(Note - this is not any kind of a source. It's me taking a wild guess now that it is being reported the two front-runners, Pit and TB, missed out on him.)
If we can use the carrot taht we have a 2nd line spot to fill and have his former teammate Diaz here maybe that will help.

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06-15-2012, 03:46 PM
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If we can use the carrot taht we have a 2nd line spot to fill and have his former teammate Diaz here maybe that will help.
For sure. In fairness it does make some sense. We have a dire need for secondary scoring and a Swiss connection. Plus, it was widely reported that Montreal was one of a few teams in the thick of it on Brunner. With TB and Pit out, there's possibly a bit of smoke, but who knows?

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06-15-2012, 03:50 PM
  #73
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For sure. In fairness it does make some sense. We have a dire need for secondary scoring and a Swiss connection. Plus, it was widely reported that Montreal was one of a few teams in the thick of it on Brunner. With TB and Pit out, there's possibly a bit of smoke, but who knows?
Where did you see that Pit and TB are out?

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06-15-2012, 04:12 PM
  #74
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Where did you see that Pit and TB are out?
Reported via twitter in this thread:
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...1190563&page=5

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06-15-2012, 04:19 PM
  #75
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were taking about a Championship team here! How on the world can we add Zach Parise with that crutch on major roster? He's gotta go to the Dogs! No dis-respect to the great steel City , I actually Love Hamilton. Our Neighbours. Our friends!

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