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Mogilny out for 10-12 weeks.

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11-26-2003, 05:51 PM
  #1
Rand
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Mogilny out for 10-12 weeks.

Linky

Or at least so says SportsNet.
Ouch, nearly 3 months that definitely hurts big time.

We'll survive though, and as long as he's back in plenty of time for the playoffs I'm not too worried.
Apparently he's in Pittsburgh seeing Mario Lemieux's hip specialist.

Article also praises Reichel for his surprising play thus far this season.

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11-26-2003, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rand
Linky

Or at least so says SportsNet.
Ouch, nearly 3 months that definitely hurts big time.

We'll survive though, and as long as he's back in plenty of time for the playoffs I'm not too worried.
Apparently he's in Pittsburgh seeing Mario Lemieux's hip specialist.

Article also praises Reichel for his surprising play thus far this season.
And Quinn mentions that Antropov is still a while away..

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11-26-2003, 06:04 PM
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Well, all I can say is, that's really bad...

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11-26-2003, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rand
Linky

Apparently he's in Pittsburgh seeing Mario Lemieux's hip specialist.
Lately that doesn't give me cause for optimism...when was the last game Mario played?

 
Old
11-26-2003, 07:50 PM
  #5
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This is the weakness that Quinn has created in the Leafs (one of them). Sure they have some very skilled players like Mogilny, but because he shipped out all the young up-and-comers during his time as GM when they get hurt (which is becoming more and more often) there is no 24-28/30 year old players to replace them.

Now Ferguson not only needs to find this team a #1 defenseman but also a foward to help carry this team while Mogilny, Nieuwendyk and Antropov are out (Comrie?). Hopefully if those Jagr to NY rumors are true and Lindros and/or Carter will become avaible for trade very soon, while not the picture perfect fowards they would suit the Leafs needs right now.

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11-27-2003, 02:57 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sluggo
Now Ferguson not only needs to find this team a #1 defenseman but also a foward to help carry this team while Mogilny, Nieuwendyk and Antropov are out (Comrie?). Hopefully if those Jagr to NY rumors are true and Lindros and/or Carter will become avaible for trade very soon, while not the picture perfect fowards they would suit the Leafs needs right now.
They are not going to pick up Comrie or anyone else to fill in for 89 while he's out. Nieuwendyk may be back tonight, Nik is 2-3 weeks away and they've got lots up front to carry the load until then. This shouldn't change their focus from finding a stud for the blue line.

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11-27-2003, 03:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rand
Linky

Or at least so says SportsNet.
Ouch, nearly 3 months that definitely hurts big time.

We'll survive though, and as long as he's back in plenty of time for the playoffs I'm not too worried.
Apparently he's in Pittsburgh seeing Mario Lemieux's hip specialist.

Article also praises Reichel for his surprising play thus far this season.
I sucks Mogs is going to be out that long but the Leafs have been playing good the last 2 games and may tighten up a bit becoming a better team in his absence. I also doubt this forces the leafs to go out and panic to pick up someone to fill his spot I could see it if we didn't have Nolan but all in all I think the leafs will be alright. They seem to play there best hockey when injuries happen for some reason.

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Old
11-27-2003, 04:02 AM
  #8
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It sucks that Mogilny's out, but I honestly don't think it's going to be a huge problem. Now if this happened right before the playoffs, that would be a different story.

The important thing is that he's getting his hip fixed and he'll be back likely by late January or early February.

In games that Mogilny has missed this year, the Leafs are 5-1-1.

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Old
11-27-2003, 05:02 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sluggo
This is the weakness that Quinn has created in the Leafs (one of them). Sure they have some very skilled players like Mogilny, but because he shipped out all the young up-and-comers during his time as GM when they get hurt (which is becoming more and more often) there is no 24-28/30 year old players to replace them.

Now Ferguson not only needs to find this team a #1 defenseman but also a foward to help carry this team while Mogilny, Nieuwendyk and Antropov are out (Comrie?). Hopefully if those Jagr to NY rumors are true and Lindros and/or Carter will become avaible for trade very soon, while not the picture perfect fowards they would suit the Leafs needs right now.

sluggo, do you blame Quinn for the rain too? or world hunger?

This is exactly what the Leafs actually do need. They always play best when they face adversity. You can blame Quinn for that too - the fact that he is a stubborn, fighting irish man that refuses to give up when facing adversity.

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11-27-2003, 05:05 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sluggo
This is the weakness that Quinn has created in the Leafs (one of them). Sure they have some very skilled players like Mogilny, but because he shipped out all the young up-and-comers during his time as GM when they get hurt (which is becoming more and more often) there is no 24-28/30 year old players to replace them.

Now Ferguson not only needs to find this team a #1 defenseman but also a foward to help carry this team while Mogilny, Nieuwendyk and Antropov are out (Comrie?). Hopefully if those Jagr to NY rumors are true and Lindros and/or Carter will become avaible for trade very soon, while not the picture perfect fowards they would suit the Leafs needs right now.
Another point. It was also Quinn who convinced Leaf management from being perennially a middle of the pack salary spending team to a consistently top 5 spending team.

Because of this, he now has veterans like Nolan, Renberg, Reichel, Tucker, etc. who know how to face adversity and take their game to the next level. And they have the talent to make it happen too.

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11-27-2003, 10:02 AM
  #11
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they'll do alright

roberts sundin renberg
stajan druken nolan
tucker reichel domi

and when 2 more come back:

roberts sundin renberg
antropov nieuwendyk nolan
tucker reichel domi

or whatever
theres enough to go around

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Old
11-27-2003, 10:27 AM
  #12
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Yes the Leafs need a #1 D-man, but that doesn't mean you ignore the other problems too. Hopefully Nieuwendyk will be back soon and won't leave again. Antropov was susposed to be back by the start of Dec and now that looks like its going to be pushed back a week or two, given his history he could very well get hurt again and theirs no guarent of well he'll play (plus hes one of the few players they could move to get that D-man). Mogilny is one of the top 2 point men, if hes going to be out for an extended period they need to replace him, Comrie would add offense now and give them a solid 2nd line center allowing Sundin to move over the win and Nieuwendyk to center the top line. And this team will get hurt before or during hte playoffs, it will happen, it always does with this vet. team. Bringing in a young 23 year old foward like Comrie would give them someone they can count in the playoffs. Injuries have been the excuse for not winning the cup for to long in Toronto, they need to add some players who aren't injury prone.

"Because of this, he now has veterans like Nolan, Renberg, Reichel, Tucker, etc. who know how to face adversity and take their game to the next level. And they have the talent to make it happen too"

And I guess thats evident by all the championships and cups this team has won since Quinn took over?

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11-27-2003, 10:54 AM
  #13
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Berezin anyone?

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Old
11-27-2003, 10:54 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sluggo
Yes the Leafs need a #1 D-man, but that doesn't mean you ignore the other problems too. Hopefully Nieuwendyk will be back soon and won't leave again. Antropov was susposed to be back by the start of Dec and now that looks like its going to be pushed back a week or two, given his history he could very well get hurt again and theirs no guarent of well he'll play (plus hes one of the few players they could move to get that D-man). Mogilny is one of the top 2 point men, if hes going to be out for an extended period they need to replace him, Comrie would add offense now and give them a solid 2nd line center allowing Sundin to move over the win and Nieuwendyk to center the top line. And this team will get hurt before or during hte playoffs, it will happen, it always does with this vet. team. Bringing in a young 23 year old foward like Comrie would give them someone they can count in the playoffs. Injuries have been the excuse for not winning the cup for to long in Toronto, they need to add some players who aren't injury prone.

"Because of this, he now has veterans like Nolan, Renberg, Reichel, Tucker, etc. who know how to face adversity and take their game to the next level. And they have the talent to make it happen too"

And I guess thats evident by all the championships and cups this team has won since Quinn took over?
Joel Quenneville.

Marc Crawford.

Lindy Ruff.

Mike Keenan.

Paul Maurice.

Doug MacLean.

Craig MacTavish.

Jacques Martin.

Glen Sather.

Bobby Francis.

Jacques Lemaire.


Pretty respected group of coaches who have been around for a while. How many cups have they won in the last 5 years?

0

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11-27-2003, 11:10 AM
  #15
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How many of them are totally responsible for putting the team together? And 4 of those coachs have won cups.

Where the leafs stand - Not a bad team. The defense is weak and needs a #1 guy, but as we've seen when (and unfortunatly its not all the time) the fowards get back and help the defense isn't as weak as it is on its own. The offense is good when everyone is healthy with but with 5 of their top six (Sundin, Mogilny, Roberts, Nieuwendyk, Nolan, Antropov) between 31-37 and 4 of them bring injury prone (and who knows how long ROberts shoulders will hold up). Out of the bottom 6 4 are over 31 years old (Reichel, Fitzgerald, Domi, Renberg) and Renberg is also very injury prone. Stajan is playing well but hes also a 19 year old and shouldn't/can't be expected to help carry the team at this point.

The Leafs are missing young, healthy top fowards that can "go" for 60 minutes a night and when those older guys get hurt who can pick up the slack. And right now the need for that kind of player is amplied because Mogilny is out. For the last 2-3 years now its been the same story for the Leafs going into the playoffs - "We had a good team with a real chance at winning, but injuries hurt us". A player like Comrie is the type of player the Leafs need, not just right now but for the rest of the season and the future.

Just because the Leafs need a D-man doesn't mean can/should ignore their holes and weaknesses up front.

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Old
11-27-2003, 11:15 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sluggo
How many of them are totally responsible for putting the team together? And 4 of those coachs have won cups.

Where the leafs stand - Not a bad team. The defense is weak and needs a #1 guy, but as we've seen when (and unfortunatly its not all the time) the fowards get back and help the defense isn't as weak as it is on its own. The offense is good when everyone is healthy with but with 5 of their top six (Sundin, Mogilny, Roberts, Nieuwendyk, Nolan, Antropov) between 31-37 and 4 of them bring injury prone (and who knows how long ROberts shoulders will hold up). Out of the bottom 6 4 are over 31 years old (Reichel, Fitzgerald, Domi, Renberg) and Renberg is also very injury prone. Stajan is playing well but hes also a 19 year old and shouldn't/can't be expected to help carry the team at this point.

The Leafs are missing young, healthy top fowards that can "go" for 60 minutes a night and when those older guys get hurt who can pick up the slack. And right now the need for that kind of player is amplied because Mogilny is out. For the last 2-3 years now its been the same story for the Leafs going into the playoffs - "We had a good team with a real chance at winning, but injuries hurt us". A player like Comrie is the type of player the Leafs need, not just right now but for the rest of the season and the future.

Just because the Leafs need a D-man doesn't mean can/should ignore their holes and weaknesses up front.
"the young healthy guys who can go up front" were McCaulay, Berezin, Johnson, Perrault, Sullivan, Modin, Mair, maybe I am forgetting 1 or 2.

Should Quinn get them back? Would that make them a champion?

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11-27-2003, 11:26 AM
  #17
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You can't get rid of the vets hes brought in, but Quinn forgot about the need for young players as well. If they had a good young foward who doesn't have injury problemssomeone like Sullivan, who can get you 60-65 points a year (like Comrie) who can play on your second line and step up when need be then when people get hurt in the playoffs it won't hurt the team as much.

Look at the Red Wings (another older team). They have Datysuk and Zetterberg, two players in their early 20's who don't have injury problems (and getting your leg broke by a slash isn't an injury problem). Same with the Avs (Tanguay) etc.... The Leafs had guys like that in their system and Quinn trades/gave them away for vets (in same cases they were good moves) but those vets constantly get hurt in and before the playoffs and as we see now, are having trouble playing a whole season. Comrie is avaible and solve those problems the Leafs have, its not hard to see getting him makes sense.

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11-27-2003, 11:29 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p.l.f.
they'll do alright

roberts sundin renberg
stajan druken nolan
tucker reichel domi

All I can say about that is "ugh".. oh and Reichel would be the 2nd line centre not Druken.. well I would hope anyway

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11-27-2003, 11:39 AM
  #19
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And getting Comrie wouldn't only be a "now" move, it would help improve the team once everyone is healthy, if you bring him in you're looking at something like this as your possible lines

Sundin/Nieuwendyk/Mogilny
Roberts/Comrie/Nolan
Tucker/Reichel/Stajan
Renberg/Fitgerald/Domi


(I didn't include Antropov because if you bring in Comries - whos more proven the Antorpov and doesn't have the injury problems - then I would image Antropov is moved for a defenseman).

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11-27-2003, 01:09 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sluggo
And getting Comrie wouldn't only be a "now" move, it would help improve the team once everyone is healthy, if you bring him in you're looking at something like this as your possible lines

Sundin/Nieuwendyk/Mogilny
Roberts/Comrie/Nolan
Tucker/Reichel/Stajan
Renberg/Fitgerald/Domi


(I didn't include Antropov because if you bring in Comries - whos more proven the Antorpov and doesn't have the injury problems - then I would image Antropov is moved for a defenseman).
Comrie has stated publicly that he does not like being in the fish bowl of Edmonton. It has been a major issue for him.

How do you think he would adjust to Toronto?

He is a good player on a not so good team kind of guy - much like Sullivan.

Pass.

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11-27-2003, 01:18 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by sluggo
You can't get rid of the vets hes brought in, but Quinn forgot about the need for young players as well. If they had a good young foward who doesn't have injury problemssomeone like Sullivan, who can get you 60-65 points a year (like Comrie) who can play on your second line and step up when need be then when people get hurt in the playoffs it won't hurt the team as much.

Look at the Red Wings (another older team). They have Datysuk and Zetterberg, two players in their early 20's who don't have injury problems (and getting your leg broke by a slash isn't an injury problem). Same with the Avs (Tanguay) etc.... The Leafs had guys like that in their system and Quinn trades/gave them away for vets (in same cases they were good moves) but those vets constantly get hurt in and before the playoffs and as we see now, are having trouble playing a whole season. Comrie is avaible and solve those problems the Leafs have, its not hard to see getting him makes sense.
OK sluggo you are starting to make my own point for me.

Detroit has Datsuk and Zetterberg - both who are well under 25 years old because they were drafted within their own organization. Same for Tanguay. Teams that have players like that coming up in the system almost NEVER trade them unless they are desparate or Mike Millbury.

What has Quinn had to work with?

Luca Cereda? Eric Fichaud? please tell me?

Look at the roster the Leafs had in Quinn's first year. Then look at the second year. How the hell did those teams make the playoffs let alone deep in the playoffs?

Look at the farm system he was given.

Look at the dearth of prospects he has had make his team. But now look at the quality prospects that the Quinn regime has picked.

Now Toronto has Matt Stajan and a pile of D men knocking on the door. Plus a goalie.

The reason why Quinn does not have a bunch of Tanguays, Gagnes, and Zetterbergs on the team is because the screwed up organization he works for did not have any to give him.

So he had to trade and sign free agents.

And guess what?

They are not under 25.

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Old
11-27-2003, 01:20 PM
  #22
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Originally Posted by pinto80
Berezin anyone?
pass...

no wait its Berezin...

he never passes.

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Old
11-27-2003, 02:17 PM
  #23
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wasting time - Comrie didn't like the pressure in Edmonton because thats his hometown. Toronto isn't his home town. And hes never been on a good team, why would you say he can't preform on one? The pressure would be off him (2nd liner instead of 1st), a lot of the time that helps players.

"What has Quinn had to work with?"

Quinn had McCauley, Sullivan and Modin when he took over the Leafs and those are the types of players the need right now - 2nd liners who are in their 20's, can play well, are healthy and can step up when needed. In this time as GM Quinn turned those 3 players (plus Boyes) into Owen Nolan. Quinn only has himself to blame for the lack of young fowards on the Leafs. Quinn put almost the whole team (as they are now) together, he gets credits for its strenghts, but is also responsible for its weaknesses, and a lack of young healthy players is on weakness which he created. And in Quinns time with the Leafs we always hear the same story after they are out of hte playoffs - "We have a good team but the injuries just took their toll on us".

"Look at the roster the Leafs had in Quinn's first year. Then look at the second year. How the hell did those teams make the playoffs let alone deep in the playoffs? "

Cujo. Period.

And Trapp has to be given most (if not all) of the credit for most of the Leafs prospects. Out of their current group Quinn really only drafted Tellqvist.

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