Outsider opinion here. What if the Kings let Stoll and Penner go, move Carter back to centre, and sign Parise? Could end up with 3 pretty potent twosomes on each line 5on5
I was actually talking to a friend about that. That was before I realized the salary cap was supposed to go up so much. The Kings could keep all of them and add Parise with the amount of room the increase to the cap provides. No reason to let Stoll go when you can leave Carter on the wing and he has been effective there.
That will push one of Nolan, King or Clifford to the right side or out of the line up but that is just fine with me.
Outsider opinion here. What if the Kings let Stoll and Penner go, move Carter back to centre, and sign Parise? Could end up with 3 pretty potent twosomes on each line 5on5
So move Carter off of Richards line and to the third center roll? Like this?
Brown - Kopitar - Williams
Parise - Richards - ??
Gagne - Carter -??
Even though it seems like a bit of a waste for all of Carts talents to be relegated to the Third line I think this just really Exposes and highlights Lombardis brilliance in the options that this team has going forward.
Oh, and as one of the only LONG TIME STOLL SUPPORTERS here I want Stoll back.
insofar as Penner is concerened I really like him as a human being but a sign and trade with the addition of Bernier might be the ticket if the cap doesnt go up as much as some think.
If Penner played up to his potential, that second line would be incredibly tough to play against. The first line kinda goes without saying. But that of course is a pipe dream. Kinda like the Kings winning a Stanley ****ing Cup!
Why do you care what he gets paid? The Kings have plenty of Cap room and if it stays at $70M+ (or whatever it is suppose to go up to), where are you going to find a better player for ~$3-4m a year? If the Kings can bring him back on a 2 year deal for around $6m, I think they'll do it. Both he and Stoll will probably take a bit of a discount to stay but you aren't going to pay them peanuts because they do have a bit of leverage with their UFA status.
I'm all for them giving themselves cap space. Ask any Flyer fan what cap space means to them and you'll have an answer. There was a point about 3 years ago where the Flyers had a number of players who were sick/injured but not on LTIR and we had to trade Upshall and a 2nd for Carcillo in order to put Timonen back in the lineup and to keep Giroux from being sent to the AHL. The reason was because Carcillo made less money and because the Flyers were in trouble, they had to include the 2nd.
Those of you who complain about Stoll misjudge his role on the team and his importance to the franchise. Those of you who complain about his play or actions on the ice misjudge his purpose - he is tasked with being a tough defensive forward with speed who creates havoc in the opponents structure and game plan. That entails "dumb" penalties while pushing opponents off their game. His shot and scoring is just something else for their D and goalie to worry about - it's not his main purpose or skill.
I'm just stunned by how much, and how fast, some of us dismiss these intangibles the same week we celebrate our Championship and want to throw away the very thing (camaraderie and battle for each other) that got us the Cup. Stoll and Greene are prime catalysts that changed our locker room over the past three years.
Penner was a beneficiary of that - as were the younger players. Now, we're going to throw that away because of what Penner succeeded at overcoming? So another team can win with him? When all these guys are ready to fight and bleed for each other and we want to split that up? What kind of franchise do we want?
Toronto has been rolling "the best player for the position" and changing their roster over and over, year after year - since 1942. The Wings have had the toughest lineup for a rookie or two year player to crack forever. That's why Detroit are consistently at the top and tough to play against.
Lombardi's not going to let Stoll go unless Stoll asks to leave for career or personal reasons. I suspect the same is true of Penner and Fraser.
Said it before and I'll keep saying it until proven wrong - this team, these players have earned the right to stay together and go for another Cup. The kids not currently on the roster can push their way in when they can - just like Voynov, Martinez, King and Nolan did.
I'm pretty sure the CBA doesn't allow for player or club options nor does it allow for bonuses on anyone except 35+ y/o and players on an ELC. I suppose that could change in the summer but right now I don't believe those exist.
If the Kings can bring back Penner and Stoll for a collective $5-6m a year, they should. That leaves plenty of room for Quick to be re-signed and a pipe dream of Parise. The bottom line is you aren't going to find anyone on the UFA market that has the potential of Penner at his age and the Kings really have nobody in the system on the left side with that skillset. They are best to bring him back as cheaply as possible and make him earn another raise. But I do think both he and Stoll will be able to get 2 year deals if they want them and both will be back. Who knows.. they both might want one year deals ot increase their value for the following summer. I did notice DL with his arms around both Fraser and Penner yesterday during the Rally. I think all 3 will come back and there is no reason to complain if they do. This is a ****ing Championship team and people are still whining about the roster and how much they get paid.
Thanks for the great info. So much for that then... LOL!
Those of you who complain about Stoll misjudge his role on the team and his importance to the franchise. Those of you who complain about his play or actions on the ice misjudge his purpose - he is tasked with being a tough defensive forward with speed who creates havoc in the opponents structure and game plan. That entails "dumb" penalties while pushing opponents off their game. His shot and scoring is just something else for their D and goalie to worry about - it's not his main purpose or skill.
I'm just stunned by how much, and how fast, some of us dismiss these intangibles the same week we celebrate our Championship and want to throw away the very thing (camaraderie and battle for each other) that got us the Cup. Stoll and Greene are prime catalysts that changed our locker room over the past three years.
Penner was a beneficiary of that - as were the younger players. Now, we're going to throw that away because of what Penner succeeded at overcoming? So another team can win with him? When all these guys are ready to fight and bleed for each other and we want to split that up? What kind of franchise do we want?
Toronto has been rolling "the best player for the position" and changing their roster over and over, year after year - since 1942. The Wings have had the toughest lineup for a rookie or two year player to crack forever. That's why Detroit are consistently at the top and tough to play against.
Lombardi's not going to let Stoll go unless Stoll asks to leave for career or personal reasons. I suspect the same is true of Penner and Fraser.
Said it before and I'll keep saying it until proven wrong - this team, these players have earned the right to stay together and go for another Cup. The kids not currently on the roster can push their way in when they can - just like Voynov, Martinez, King and Nolan did.
I've thought about moving Carter to center, as well. Whether it's 2nd or 3rd line C is irrelevant. Label it whatever you want. This would only work with a high end winger brought in, like Parise. And also, in this situation, we're all of a sudden missing a top six RW, or we have to move Brown back to RW.
That lineup looks strange, but it could be incredibly potent, with three potential scoring lines.
Meh. I like Carter on the wing.
Edit: Also, if Stoll's role on this team is to run around, "cause havoc", and take dumb penalties, then what you're describing is a fourth line center and he should be paid as such.
King-Stoll-Nolan would be one of the best "fourth lines" in the league.
I was actually talking to a friend about that. That was before I realized the salary cap was supposed to go up so much. The Kings could keep all of them and add Parise with the amount of room the increase to the cap provides. No reason to let Stoll go when you can leave Carter on the wing and he has been effective there.
That will push one of Nolan, King or Clifford to the right side or out of the line up but that is just fine with me.
The cap number is not even official yet and even if it is set at 70.3M It'll more than likely go down after the new CBA, better to keep it safe and not spend too much than to spend too much and risk losing someone.
If the Kings bring Penner and Stoll back at a cap hit of $3M a piece and Fraser re-signs for about $850K (which is a $25K raise for him), the Kings will save $1,825,000 in cap space.
They also have to re-sign Dwight King who was earning a little less than $600K. I imagine he'll get a bump up to about $800K to $900K. Let's go with the higher number since he'll be the 3rd line LW.
The adjusted numbers with the cap decreases to Penner and Stoll would lower LA's cap hit from $63,671,201 in 2011-12 to $61,995,227 in 2012-13. And that is with 24 players listed on the roster with Richardson, Clifford, Westgarth and Drewiske as the spare players on the roster. The rest of the lineup would be exactly the same as it was during these playoffs with Gagne on the fourth line.
With Quick due for a raise in 2013-14, I don't think we should expect the Kings to be active in making any outside additions to the roster.
I would only want Penner back below 3.5. In a perfect world a 3 year 9 million dollar contract works. Similar to Justin Williams money.
I want Stoll back. Hopefully we can sign him for Handzus money at 2.5?
I don't know if the Kings can sign Parise. Obviously they have the money to do so. If they were able to sign Parise my lines would look something like this.
Parise - Kopitar - Brown
Penner - Richards - Carter
Gagne - Stoll - Williams
King - Lewis - Nolan
EXTRA - Clifford
Team has no need for Westgarth as great as he is in the locker room. I think Denver Wilson replaces what Westgarth brings. Clifford, Nolan, King can handle the fighting aspect of things as well.
Stoll and Brown never worked well together. I can't see the Kings breaking up the top line of Brown-Kopitar-Williams. They work too well together to split them apart.
There you go. And on top of that we've got three or four months of next season to make changes. Assuming any are needed.
If your not getting better/moving forward you are getting worse/falling back. Stoll is a classic example of a player getting lots of fluff for a decent yet overrated playoff run. I mean he was outscored by each of his linemates, hell even Greene outscored him. While he has certain aspects of him game that are nice, outside of the faceoffs they can all be replicated. Especially by Lewis. (who had a better playoff imo with half the hype)
If your not getting better/moving forward you are getting worse/falling back. Stoll is a classic example of a player getting lots of fluff for a decent yet overrated playoff run. I mean he was outscored by each of his linemates, hell even Greene outscored him. While he has certain aspects of him game that are nice, outside of the faceoffs they can all be replicated. Especially by Lewis. (who had a better playoff imo with half the hype)
well ... you'd be Wrong ... but hey
also ... to anyone breaking up Bro-pitar ... what are you stupid ? seriously ... they thrive off of each other and have great chemistry, they stay together.
IF ... and it's a BIG IF we land Zach ... he played RW when the devils used him and Kovalchuk together didn't they, or did Ilya move over ? so ...
Brown - Kopitar - Parise
Gagne - Richards - Carter
Penner - Stoll - Williams
King - Lewis - Clifford
EXTRAs - Nolan, Richardson
I think Stoll & Penner both takes discounts and stay, you let Fraser walk unless he comes cheap, Lewis can do what Fraser did. Richardson maybe gets traded or waived ?
