It's crazy that we're even discussing this but if I had to choose between Penner and Stoll at similiar contracts I take Penner. Penner has a better chance of outproducing his contract. Stoll is safer.
Keep them both.
I was really having a hard time with Stoll during the season. But they guy really came through in the playoffs...he regained his face-off touch and was just balls to the wall on face-offs in the Final.
Penner became better in the regular season under Sutter. We all saw it even if the points weren't there yet. He didn't just turn it on once the playoffs started - it's just that his play finally started to pay off in points.
Let's do the math and find out what's realistic. The Kings have $54.3M in committed contracts next season. Let's assume the cap is raised to $70.3M. That leaves $16M in cap space. Let's also assume that Quick's contract is extended and I'd say an annual cap hit of $7M is a fair deal (Rinne money), starting next year. That would scrape $5 million off the top, which would leave us with $11M in cap space. King is an RFA, and let's round his cap hit off to $1M. That leaves $10M as an estimate of cap flexibility.
UFAs: Stoll, Penner, Fraser, Parse.
The first line comes back intact. Assuming Gagne doesn't retire, let's pencil him in on the 2nd line. Top 6 is loosely set, but we all know injuries are likely to occur.
If the Kings sign no one, they could run with an ultra cheap bottom 6 and still have boatloads of money left for a deadline deal:
King - Loktionov - Nolan (successful line in Manchester)
Clifford - Lewis - Richardson
With $10M, that leaves room to sign Parise ($7M too?), but likely means the end of one or both of Stoll and Penner.
As much as I'd like to sign Parise, I think somehow prying Doan out of the desert is a better option; the combination of Brown and Doan on the same team means non-stop hitting (let's get Clutterbuck too!) and he'll add a goal-scoring touch to a 3rd line. Signing Doan makes the possible return of Penner, Stoll, and Fraser (hell, maybe Parse too) that much more realistic. NO ONE would want to play with Kings with their size and physicality. Problem is, signing Doan for less than $4M would be a long shot, so Stoll and Penner would have to take very team-friendly deals, and likely means there isn't enough cap space for Fraser (unless Loktionov or Clifford's cap hit are in Manchester) or Parse.
Penner (2-3M) - Stoll (2-3M) - Doan (4M)
King - Lewis - Nolan
Richardson
This would pretty much max us out and salary would have to go the other way in a deadline or offseason deal. (Bernier?)
Now, even though this is my ideal scenario (love to have Fraser back too), I think Lombardi plays it relatively quiet on the UFA market and focuses on bringing the team back.
Brown - Kopitar - Williams
Gagne - Richards - Carter
Penner (3M)- Stoll (3M) - Lewis
King - Fraser (1.5M) - Nolan
Richardson, Westgarth
I predict that Loktionov and Clifford will start the season in Manchester (-2M), which will leave the Kings with $5M going into next season.
That leaves Manchester's lineup pretty good. Toffoli, Weal, Vey, Kozun, all 100 point scorers in junior. Add in Loktionov, Andreoff, Clifford, and the recent play of Azevedo, and that's a crafty bunch.
Azevedo left for europe. Also, they probably won't be operating under the assumption that the cap will be 70.3, as it will likely come down with the new CBA.
Are you people crazy?! Trade Clifford?! Send Clifford to the AHL?! What are you people smoking?
He got injured in the playoffs & lost his spot to somebody who was healthy (Richardson). And then Sutter didn't want to change things up for reasons of chemistry.
In the long run, Clifford will be a much, much better player than Richardson. Clifford played almost the entire season. Meanwhile, Richardson watched half the season from the press box.
WTF are you people thinking?
Christ, sometimes I'll be reading a thread & wonder what board I'm really looking at!
I find it interesting that so many people are enthralled with Clifford. What value does he bring? He's not a goal scorer. He's not a good enforcer. He's already had 2 concussions. He's a good kid, but Richardson provides far more roster flexibility than Clifford.
Clifford has 26 points in 157 games. In any game, there's a 17% chance he records a point. He's also a combined -15 with 264 PIMs. To generally break that down: he's doesn't score, he's no defensive stopper, he takes penalties, and he's concussion ridden. Am I missing something, or are we dealing with a Jack Johnson double standard with the plus/minus?
Last edited by Crowne Royale: 06-15-2012 at 01:22 PM.
Reason: Stats
I remember when Mike Gillis acquired Zack Kassian and he was saying there are about 5-6 players of Kassian's caliber that teams are always interested in but are untouchable by GMs. Kyle Clifford was one of them, this guy is invaluable to a team, there's absolutely no way we trade him lol.
Quote:
4. In the March 6 edition of this blog, I mentioned that Vancouver "targeted" a few players in a possible Cody Hodgson deal. Zack Kassian was one, obviously. I also noted Brandon Sutter, who the Carolina Hurricanes love, and made an educated guess at John Carlson (which appears to be true). Canucks GM Mike Gillis said Tuesday there were six players. According to a couple of sources, sounds like the fourth was Erik Gudbranson and the fifth Kyle Clifford. No. 6? Not sure.
I find it interesting that so many people are enthralled with Clifford. What value does he bring? He's not a goal scorer. He's not a good enforcer. He's already had 2 concussions. He's a good kid, but Richardson provides far more roster flexibility than Clifford.
He isn't an "enforcer" and he is also what.. 20/21 y/o? The kid has potential to be a Wayne Simmonds type of player. I think he had 4 goals in last year's first round. He is tough and can be an effective player but he needs to develop a little more and it is going to be hard for him to crack the line up with the amount of depth the Kings have. It probably wouldn't hurt him to play in Manchester next year and be a call up when needed.
I find it interesting that so many people are enthralled with Clifford. What value does he bring? He's not a goal scorer. He's not a good enforcer. He's already had 2 concussions. He's a good kid, but Richardson provides far more roster flexibility than Clifford.
Two things.....
1) No way Dean gives Penner $3 million.
2) Dean will offer Fraser $1.1 million. However, 29 teams will offer Fraser $1.5 million or more. Fraser moves on. Richardson takes Fraser's spot. Clifford takes Richardson's spot. It's that simple.
I find it interesting that so many people are enthralled with Clifford. What value does he bring? He's not a goal scorer. He's not a good enforcer. He's already had 2 concussions. He's a good kid, but Richardson provides far more roster flexibility than Clifford.
I absolutely disagree with this thinking...
I'd take Clifford over Richardson easily...
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That answer is inextricably contingent upon the type of life being led... and, of course, the quality of the pancakes.
Doan isn't going anywhere and would never sign with LA. Kings have a better chance at Parise.
My argument is that Doan is far more difficult to play against, especially in a 7 game series. I think Doan was much more impactful on the game in the Phoenix series than Parise was in the New Jersey series.
Signing Parise is the sexy idea and he'll pot more goals than Doan, but this team is constructed to win in the playoffs, not in the regular season. Sure Parise scored 8, but he was also a -7 or -8 and Doan is a physical force that can also score at a Brownian rate (without the help of a center with the skill of Kopitar).
My argument is that Doan is far more difficult to play against, especially in a 7 game series. I think Doan was much more impactful on the game in the Phoenix series than Parise was in the New Jersey series.
Signing Parise is the sexy idea and he'll pot more goals than Doan, but this team is constructed to win in the playoffs, not in the regular season. Sure Parise scored 8, but he was also a -7 or -8 and Doan is a physical force that can also score at a Brownian rate (without the help of a center with the skill of Kopitar).
Only way Doan finds a new team is if Phoenix moves, or has the chance to move. Doan may become a late free agency gem to some team.
Because Clifford and play center or wing, right? Or how about 1-4 line duties...
Shaking my head...
Don't take our word for it. Go ask 29 other fanbases who they'd rather trade for: Richardson or Clifford. You'll get 29 consensuses that Clifford is more valuable. If, perchance, there happens to be a GM that finds Richardson more valuable than Clifford, then maybe we'll be able to get our 2nd round pick back!
I posted this on page 3 but then page 4 came right along and I'm afraid it might have gotten lost. Really interested in knowing the answer...anybody know?
Quote:
Under a new CBA, if the salary cap is reduced, do they also reduce current salaries by whatever percentage is required to get them to fit under the new cap? Isn't that always a big sticking point in the negotiation of the new CBA? I seem to remember this being a case in the previous lockout.
I ask because I'm wondering about how important it really is for DL to consider what the new cap might be in determining what he offers to any FA. Doesn't he really just have to be concerned with the current salary cap?
I posted this on page 3 but then page 4 came right along and I'm afraid it might have gotten lost. Really interested in knowing the answer...anybody know?
I don't have an answer to your question except that I do remember salaries were rolled back (I think 25%) when the CBA was agreed to in 2005.
If we can trade Richardson or Bernier for Clutterbuck we'd have some amazing forecheck. Honestly, I think we have enough talent to score, but adding a guy like Clutterbuck to the 3rd or 4th line would be amazing. He has good character from what i've seen, he's got a decent touch, and he's a pretty good skater, and a damn good hitter. Parise, no. Keep penner and stoll, trade for clutterbuck. Bam, amazing 4 lines. Oh and Doan would never come here, hell he'd probably join Anaheim just to piss us off.
I think Penner and Stoll resign. I think Bernier and Richardson are traded. I think Fraser signs somewhere else. I think we take a shot a Parise but miss. I think we land some FA because people are gonna want to come to LA. Also, who is the odd man out? Penner, Brown, Gagne all being top 6 players on the LW. Who gets the third line?
My argument is that Doan is far more difficult to play against, especially in a 7 game series. I think Doan was much more impactful on the game in the Phoenix series than Parise was in the New Jersey series.
Signing Parise is the sexy idea and he'll pot more goals than Doan, but this team is constructed to win in the playoffs, not in the regular season. Sure Parise scored 8, but he was also a -7 or -8 and Doan is a physical force that can also score at a Brownian rate (without the help of a center with the skill of Kopitar).
Yep, I would take Doan over Parise in a heart beat.
Are you people crazy?! Trade Clifford?! Send Clifford to the AHL?! What are you people smoking?
He got injured in the playoffs & lost his spot to somebody who was healthy (Richardson). And then Sutter didn't want to change things up for reasons of chemistry.
In the long run, Clifford will be a much, much better player than Richardson. Clifford played almost the entire season. Meanwhile, Richardson watched half the season from the press box.
WTF are you people thinking?
Christ, sometimes I'll be reading a thread & wonder what board I'm really looking at!
I'd rather see Clifford play top line minutes in the AHL than be a possible scratch. Keeping Richardson means we have an extra forward whose development we don't really care about.
Then Clifford can be a call up if/when Gagne gets hurt.
