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Old
06-15-2012, 01:28 PM
  #26
Ludicrous Speed
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
Columbus has three big assets right now (Nash, Johansen, 2nd overall), and I'm strongly opposed to moving two in one deal unless there's a ton coming back.
100% this. Our needs include a minute-eating defenseman to compliment JJ, scoring forwards (especially if Nash is dealt), and a goalie.

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Old
06-15-2012, 01:29 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
Enstrom (1 year til UFA) + 9th is an overpayment for the 2nd, but not by much.

Johansen is significantly more valuable than Little.
I have nothing against Johansen, but where I can see him having more value than Little, I don't see him with significantly more value than Little. I think he has more value in terms of age and years under team control (which is probably more valuable to Columbus), but Little is the better player right now, and did put up bigger numbers in junior than Johansen. Johansen may end up being better than Little, and he might not.

I'm not saying that the deal works for Columbus age and contract wise, but IMO the value is close. You obviously disagree and that's fine.

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Old
06-15-2012, 01:33 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
I wouldn't do that...I'd be looking at one of Burmistrov or Enstrom plus 9th overall to move up to 2nd.

Columbus has three big assets right now (Nash, Johansen, 2nd overall), and I'm strongly opposed to moving two in one deal unless there's a ton coming back.
Burmistrov and the 9th is crazy overpayment.

Enstrom and the 9th for 2nd is a possibility if Yakupov is there, but that is only because Enstrom is being discounted due to his upcoming UFA status. I wouldn't trade a signed Enstrom plus the 9th for 2nd.

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06-15-2012, 01:42 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viper0220 View Post
The reason for this Proposal was because Ryan Johansen an Evander Kane would make a good wing and center. If you trade one for the other, it does not make sense.
I suspected that was the objective, which is why my counterproposals have been dancing around that issue.

The problem is that our NHL-ready center depth is such that we can't afford to give up Johansen as is. If we do trade him away, we'd have to draft someone similar with the 2nd overall. If we give away both, we're basically ****ed unless giving away both got us someone like, I dunno, Pavelski or something. We've got a lot of nice prospects (Chaput and Jenner have folks thinking happy thoughts), but they're just ready to start in the AHL, not the NHL.

So an attempt to acquire Johansen by Winnipeg really isn't going to work very well. We'd be better off discussing trade-up options so Winnipeg can draft someone like Galchenyuk or Grigorenko.

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Old
06-15-2012, 01:44 PM
  #30
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Are Blue Jackets fans seriously claiming Enstrom isn't worth the 2nd overall?



I can't even come up with a witty retort. Thats just plain stupid. Really. There are no other words.

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Old
06-15-2012, 01:54 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian North View Post
Are Blue Jackets fans seriously claiming Enstrom isn't worth the 2nd overall?



I can't even come up with a witty retort. Thats just plain stupid. Really. There are no other words.
I'm quite impressed with how thoroughly you tore that strawman to pieces, but the debate's over here, not there.

Nobody has claimed such or even come close to claiming such, on either side.

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Old
06-15-2012, 02:00 PM
  #32
Jack de la Hoya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian North View Post
Are Blue Jackets fans seriously claiming Enstrom isn't worth the 2nd overall?



I can't even come up with a witty retort. Thats just plain stupid. Really. There are no other words.
What am I missing? Enstrom is not worth the 2nd overall.

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Old
06-15-2012, 02:18 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
What am I missing? Enstrom is not worth the 2nd overall.
Debatable. I wouldn't do such a deal only because we have that skillset elsewhere and in abundance, but in a vacuum, I'd say he would be.

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Old
06-15-2012, 02:36 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
What am I missing? Enstrom is not worth the 2nd overall.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Debatable. I wouldn't do such a deal only because we have that skillset elsewhere and in abundance, but in a vacuum, I'd say he would be.
Like Viqsi states, his value should be close. His contract is not helping him, so a team that has that low of a pick is most likely not in a position to want a soon to be UFA, and some teams may not need his skillset, but his value is close to that.

But you have to admit that you are not as high on him as most others:
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...1&postcount=10

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Old
06-15-2012, 02:40 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huffer View Post
Like Viqsi states, his value should be close. His contract is not helping him, so a team that has that low of a pick is most likely not in a position to want a soon to be UFA, and some teams may not need his skillset, but his value is close to that.

But you have to admit that you are not as high on him as most others:
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...1&postcount=10
I'm not as high on him, but I'm also placing more emphasis on his contract status.

If Enstrom was signed long-term, on a cap-friendly deal, then I think it is a reasonable debate. But as a one-year rental, I don't think he's worth anything close to the 2nd overall--particularly for a non-contending team like the Blue Jackets.

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Old
06-15-2012, 02:41 PM
  #36
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7.8m per is going to scare lots of teams away from Nash. A cap hit that high could cripple teams. I'm willing to guess Nash is top-5 in terms of salary, where does he fall in terms of points? Another words does his production match his paycheck?

No doubt Nash is talented, but I think Jacket fans that are expecting the moon in return for him will be left a tad dissapointed.

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Old
06-15-2012, 02:44 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian North View Post
Are Blue Jackets fans seriously claiming Enstrom isn't worth the 2nd overall?



I can't even come up with a witty retort. Thats just plain stupid. Really. There are no other words.
Enstrom is not worth 2nd overall!!

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Old
06-15-2012, 03:00 PM
  #38
Hank Chinaski
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke49 View Post
Doubt WPG wants that contract.
Furthermore, would CBJ management be able to sell him on Wpg. Just to add to your point, his contract is hefty, however I don't think it would be that much of a concern for Winnipeg. Hainsey and Antropov are UFAs at the end of next season, that opens up a big chunk of salary. Even with that contract and extensions for Little, Bogo and Wheeler, Jets would still be hovering around mid-cap territory.

Have to say, as much as these Columbus-Winnipeg trade proposals have been very civil and reasonable, I'm not sure we're the best trading partners. Winnipeg has a slight surplus of offensively skilled defensemen, gaps at C and RW in the top 6, and lacks overall team size. That seems to be about the same as Columbus.

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Old
06-15-2012, 03:04 PM
  #39
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It doesnt seem likely that Nash would even waive his NTC for Winnipeg

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Old
06-15-2012, 03:11 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viper0220 View Post
It could be a three way deal.
I'm all for a 3-way as long as no other dudes are involved.

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Old
06-15-2012, 03:55 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
I'm quite impressed with how thoroughly you tore that strawman to pieces, but the debate's over here, not there.

Nobody has claimed such or even come close to claiming such, on either side.
Canadian north is the biggest enstrom homer in our boards. just so you know

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Old
06-15-2012, 03:57 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
I'm not as high on him, but I'm also placing more emphasis on his contract status.

If Enstrom was signed long-term, on a cap-friendly deal, then I think it is a reasonable debate. But as a one-year rental, I don't think he's worth anything close to the 2nd overall--particularly for a non-contending team like the Blue Jackets.
I agree in regards to his contract and relative value to the Blue Jackets. That's why I mentioned it maybe not making a lot of sense to a team that's not contending and could easily use the 2nd overall to add to their young talent.

I think it's kind of a catch 22. I think Enstrom is worth the 2nd overall in a vacuum, but with 1 year to UFA he's not going to be worth it to the type of team picking 2nd overall.

Does that make sense?

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Old
06-15-2012, 03:59 PM
  #43
Viqsi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski View Post
Furthermore, would CBJ management be able to sell him on Wpg. Just to add to your point, his contract is hefty, however I don't think it would be that much of a concern for Winnipeg. Hainsey and Antropov are UFAs at the end of next season, that opens up a big chunk of salary. Even with that contract and extensions for Little, Bogo and Wheeler, Jets would still be hovering around mid-cap territory.

Have to say, as much as these Columbus-Winnipeg trade proposals have been very civil and reasonable, I'm not sure we're the best trading partners. Winnipeg has a slight surplus of offensively skilled defensemen, gaps at C and RW in the top 6, and lacks overall team size. That seems to be about the same as Columbus.
Pretty close, except that we're pretty decent on size. Well, except for a goodly portion of our quality scoring prospects.

I don't think we even have any defensemen below 6'.

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Old
06-15-2012, 04:00 PM
  #44
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This is the opposite of what Columbus should be doing.

They should be move Nash for one great young player, a good young player, and a 1st.

They should trade Wiz for whatever they can get, and then spend that money on a better scouting and player development staff, because that's what's killed them over the year.

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Old
06-15-2012, 04:25 PM
  #45
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The Jets absolutely do not want Nash's contract, nor should any team not committed to immediately spending to the cap. Columbus absolutely should not be giving up young assets or picks for Enstrom due to his pending UFA status. Also, there's no way Johansen is worth significantly more than Little, although he's worth slightly more at least due to age and certainly more to Columbus for that reason.

I just don't see these teams being good trading partners at all. Although the Jets are far less futile than CBJ, they're both building (sans the 're' prefix) teams that will primarily be looking to trade older players for prospects and picks. I'm also convinced the Jets will get a good prospect at 9th overall and that since there's no great prospect available at 2nd, such as when Malkin or Seguin went 2nd and were considered for first overall for much of their draft years, it's simply not worth whatever the price would be to move up the 7 spots.

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Old
06-15-2012, 05:10 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by speik View Post
Canadian north is the biggest enstrom homer in our boards. just so you know
You're seriously telling me you'd take Murray over Enstrom?

Enstrom is what Murray should be aiming to be. I doubt he's ever as good as a healthy Enstrom.

Jets fans know nothing of Enstrom's talent. He was playing injured all year. Just watch a couple games from previous seasons. He's easily a top 10 defenseman in this league. At times, he's been top 5.

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Old
06-15-2012, 05:15 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian North View Post
Are Blue Jackets fans seriously claiming Enstrom isn't worth the 2nd overall?



I can't even come up with a witty retort. Thats just plain stupid. Really. There are no other words.

Sorry man I know you love Enstrom but I gotta agree with these CBJ fans Enstrom straight up for 2nd overall won't happen well have to add to that

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Old
06-15-2012, 05:42 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by JetNation View Post
Sorry man I know you love Enstrom but I gotta agree with these CBJ fans Enstrom straight up for 2nd overall won't happen well have to add to that
Only because of his upcoming UFA status. A signed Enstrom is easily worth that.

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Old
06-15-2012, 06:14 PM
  #49
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I dont know if the jets would do this
I am not totally sold on johansen

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Old
06-15-2012, 06:50 PM
  #50
Bryzard of Oz
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Originally Posted by Huffer View Post
Only because of his upcoming UFA status. A signed Enstrom is easily worth that.
To 99% of teams who would be picking second, he's not.

If you're a team (like Boston was) with the second pick obtained through a trade, a need for a PMD, and if that hole is filled they will be strong contenders for the next couple years, moving it for a mid/late 20s player is a good trade.

If you're a rebuilding team like Columbus (or pretty much everyone picking second), lots of holes, looking to liquidate their top mid/late 20s asset(s) for young players, and a good 3 or 4 years from being a playoff team, that trade is awful.

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