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Old
06-15-2012, 11:16 AM
  #76
tmurfin
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Originally Posted by Medium Rare View Post
very good point, you can pretty much bet Iginla has been encouraged to cheat to create some offensive opportunities
And imo, rightfully so, when Iginla was producing he was playing his game, not Sutters.

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06-15-2012, 11:24 AM
  #77
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You can use stats, such as corsi, to argue statements like "Iginla is always backchecking", but not statements such as "Iginla disregards his defensive duties" because like stewie said, Iginla could be given instructions to do so, among many other variables that stats can't explain.

People should stop using stats as a basis for opinion and then use words like proof and fact.

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06-15-2012, 01:40 PM
  #78
Double Dion
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Originally Posted by HighLifeMan View Post
From the article;


So which is it?

I would say the "top line" as a whole struggled defensively as they were not being played in a way that benefited them to the fullest (IMO).

I dont think he is the worst defensive forward on this team by any stretch, he just looked unmotivated in the defensive end for a number of reasons.
Moss, Glencross, Jokinen, Stempniak, Tanguay, Backlund and Comeau all played tougher minutes than Iginla. Granted, he saw tougher competition than the 4th line and our AHL call ups. I agree with your assessment that the top line struggled as a whole. Whichever line Iginla is on tends to do that. With Moss instead of Iginla, Jokinen and Glencross didn't struggle defensively at all. It was when they were playing with Iggy they had some trouble in their own end.

I agree partially with your second point. It's not that he's incapable of playing good defensive hockey. He generally does play well defensively at the end of tight games. You're correct that he looks unmotivated at the defensive end. I don't see that with any other player on the team other than Cammaleri on occasion. I don't cre what the reason is. I still see him not doing it other than late in the 3rd period.

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06-15-2012, 01:42 PM
  #79
Double Dion
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Originally Posted by Stewie Griffin View Post
Good question, considering the article contradicts the position she has taken in the past.

It's also entirely possible that Iginla is told by the coaching staff to hang around the blue line to wait for an outlet pass. I'm just not sure where in the statistics that shows up.
I'm pretty sure he hasn't. When Sutter talked about "best players" flying the zone early who do you think he was referring to if not Iginla? Possibly under Keenan, no real evidence either way.

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06-15-2012, 01:43 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
You can use stats, such as corsi, to argue statements like "Iginla is always backchecking", but not statements such as "Iginla disregards his defensive duties" because like stewie said, Iginla could be given instructions to do so, among many other variables that stats can't explain.

People should stop using stats as a basis for opinion and then use words like proof and fact.
Do you honestly think Brent Sutter told Iginla to cheat offensively? I mean come on people... So when he talked about players like Yzerman and Modano having to change their game as they aged to be more defensively accountable, you think that meant Iginla should be cheating offensively?

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06-15-2012, 02:33 PM
  #81
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this thread really makes me HATE iggy

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06-15-2012, 03:43 PM
  #82
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Mind explaining why...?

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06-15-2012, 03:55 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Devilspuppet666 View Post
this thread really makes me HATE iggy

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06-15-2012, 04:03 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Tom Brostopolous View Post
Mind explaining why...?
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Originally Posted by Duck Sauce View Post
what these fellers said

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06-15-2012, 05:24 PM
  #85
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A 40 goal scorer who goes hard deep in the offensive zone but doesn't get back quick to backcheck (usually because they're tired) is looked at as a coach's problem, a liability, lazy because their defensive play is not up to snuff.

A 10 goal scorer who hangs back, plays the high forward position, first back on the backcheck, kills penalties, blocks shots, etc. is a coach's dream, hard worker, easy to coach.

Pure offensive players get crapped on too much about their defence. Top defensive forwards don't get crapped on enough about their lack of production.

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06-15-2012, 06:29 PM
  #86
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I think the largest reason for Iginla's alleged defensive struggles last year can be attributed to the disconnect he and Brent had in regards to how they wanted the team (and more specifically Iginla) to play the game.

I understand why Brent made those decisions, I just don't think it was the right call to make. Jarome Iginla has been one of the most successful players in the league over the past decade, you would think he would be given a much larger leash to do what he want's on the ice. More so, I think he was confused as to why the team was consistently changing there game plan on a year to year basis.

1st Season - Defensive System, not a very deep offensive team - 201 GF, 203 GA
2nd Season - Far more uptempo offensive system that allowed for more creativity - 241 GF, 230 GA
3rd Season - Defensive System, Stressed three zone accountability from all players - 199 GF, 217 GA

I can't say I blame the players for not buying into what Brent was selling when it seems he himself had a tough time discovering his own system.

It is truly no coincidence that Hartley was brought in and is being heralded as a great communicator. I think he will do wonder's for Iginla and Tanguay specifically.

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06-15-2012, 07:34 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighLifeMan View Post
I think the largest reason for Iginla's alleged defensive struggles last year can be attributed to the disconnect he and Brent had in regards to how they wanted the team (and more specifically Iginla) to play the game.

I understand why Brent made those decisions, I just don't think it was the right call to make. Jarome Iginla has been one of the most successful players in the league over the past decade, you would think he would be given a much larger leash to do what he want's on the ice. More so, I think he was confused as to why the team was consistently changing there game plan on a year to year basis.

1st Season - Defensive System, not a very deep offensive team - 201 GF, 203 GA
2nd Season - Far more uptempo offensive system that allowed for more creativity - 241 GF, 230 GA
3rd Season - Defensive System, Stressed three zone accountability from all players - 199 GF, 217 GA

I can't say I blame the players for not buying into what Brent was selling when it seems he himself had a tough time discovering his own system.

It is truly no coincidence that Hartley was brought in and is being heralded as a great communicator. I think he will do wonder's for Iginla and Tanguay specifically.
Yep I agree I don't think anyone is saying that Iginla was our best defensive player or was amazing at it but it was rather clear that he and Tanguay were trying to force the offense as they seemed to not feel that the defensive system was going to work. This is why I think Feaster got Hartley as he loves to play his top players and usually lets them play the way they want to.

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06-15-2012, 08:13 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double Dion View Post
Do you honestly think Brent Sutter told Iginla to cheat offensively? I mean come on people... So when he talked about players like Yzerman and Modano having to change their game as they aged to be more defensively accountable, you think that meant Iginla should be cheating offensively?
Oh ****, this is a fact buddy. All buttered up in mathematical proof. Haven't you heard, the sciences have been taken over by conspiracy theories laid out by homeless junkies?

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Old
06-15-2012, 08:21 PM
  #89
TheHudlinator
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double Dion View Post
Do you honestly think Brent Sutter told Iginla to cheat offensively? I mean come on people... So when he talked about players like Yzerman and Modano having to change their game as they aged to be more defensively accountable, you think that meant Iginla should be cheating offensively?
Yzerman was on a staked team and 28 when he changed is game who else do we have that can score and Iginla is 7 years older he won't be able to be as good as Yzerman can we stop this dumbass comparison.

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06-15-2012, 08:23 PM
  #90
MarkGio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Body Checker View Post
A 40 goal scorer who goes hard deep in the offensive zone but doesn't get back quick to backcheck (usually because they're tired) is looked at as a coach's problem, a liability, lazy because their defensive play is not up to snuff.

A 10 goal scorer who hangs back, plays the high forward position, first back on the backcheck, kills penalties, blocks shots, etc. is a coach's dream, hard worker, easy to coach.

Pure offensive players get crapped on too much about their defence. Top defensive forwards don't get crapped on enough about their lack of production.
This.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HighLifeMan View Post
I think the largest reason for Iginla's alleged defensive struggles last year can be attributed to the disconnect he and Brent had in regards to how they wanted the team (and more specifically Iginla) to play the game.

I understand why Brent made those decisions, I just don't think it was the right call to make. Jarome Iginla has been one of the most successful players in the league over the past decade, you would think he would be given a much larger leash to do what he want's on the ice. More so, I think he was confused as to why the team was consistently changing there game plan on a year to year basis.

1st Season - Defensive System, not a very deep offensive team - 201 GF, 203 GA
2nd Season - Far more uptempo offensive system that allowed for more creativity - 241 GF, 230 GA
3rd Season - Defensive System, Stressed three zone accountability from all players - 199 GF, 217 GA

I can't say I blame the players for not buying into what Brent was selling when it seems he himself had a tough time discovering his own system.

It is truly no coincidence that Hartley was brought in and is being heralded as a great communicator. I think he will do wonder's for Iginla and Tanguay specifically.
And This. God damn you guys are on the ball.

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Old
06-15-2012, 11:48 PM
  #91
TheHudlinator
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double Dion View Post
Do you honestly think Brent Sutter told Iginla to cheat offensively? I mean come on people... So when he talked about players like Yzerman and Modano having to change their game as they aged to be more defensively accountable, you think that meant Iginla should be cheating offensively?
Will this finally shut you up? http://the6thsens.com/PlayerUsageCharts2011-12.pdf

Iginla is listed as a 2 way forward, and ranks above of the following players

Tanguay
Cammy
Comeau
Stempinak
Backlund
Bourque
Tko
Jones
Jackman
Stajan

but he is the worst right?

Also Butler and Jbo played against a higher QoC than Gio showing they are clearly the top pair.

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Old
06-16-2012, 12:36 AM
  #92
MarkGio
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
Will this finally shut you up? http://the6thsens.com/PlayerUsageCharts2011-12.pdf

Iginla is listed as a 2 way forward, and ranks above of the following players

Tanguay
Cammy
Comeau
Stempinak
Backlund
Bourque
Tko
Jones
Jackman
Stajan

but he is the worst right?

Also Butler and Jbo played against a higher QoC than Gio showing they are clearly the top pair.
Oh that's cool. Good job Gleninator!

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