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It is Boyling this time of year. (Offseason Speculation Thread Part IV)

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Old
06-15-2012, 04:58 PM
  #926
hockeyball
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Originally Posted by murdock1116 View Post
I think the biggest problem with trading Marleau is that we for sure won't get equal value nor will it make us a better team...UNLESS its for a bunch of great prospects, but DW is not going to do that cause he's a win now "retool" gm. Not a rebuilder.

We need Marleau for speed, trading him for another speedy skater is a lateral move.

We could trade him to a contender but it's unlikely we'll be able to get two good players back since that team presumably wants the players they have to win.

We can't really trade him to a rebuilder because he's too old to Benifit a team like that.

The only type of team we could trade him too is a fringe playoff team but in all likelihood they'll be getting the best player and better end of the deal.

All and all the only arguable reason I buy into for trading Marleau is the "shake up" theory. But that's hard to rationalize and who knows if there is any merit to it.

Philly did that and maybe they put themselves in a good position for the future. Or maybe they shot themselves in the foot and watched carter/Richards rub it in their faces

Anyway, trade clowe and Murray for stafford and leopold, give it one more go around and if we fail next year. THEN trade everyone
The problem is if you wait till next year most of our players are going to be worth next to nothing since they have NMC's and only one year left on their contracts.

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Old
06-15-2012, 05:01 PM
  #927
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
The problem is if you wait till next year most of our players are going to be worth next to nothing since they have NMC's and only one year left on their contracts.
Trade deadlie rental players usually get good return.

I mean look at DW...Bill Guerin?!?

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06-15-2012, 05:03 PM
  #928
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
The problem is if you wait till next year most of our players are going to be worth next to nothing since they have NMC's and only one year left on their contracts.
Yeah, this is the issue I see... I don't think this team will win the Cup in the next few years so might as well get whatever we can now rather than next offseason.

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Old
06-15-2012, 05:11 PM
  #929
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Originally Posted by murdock1116 View Post
Trade deadlie rental players usually get good return.

I mean look at DW...Bill Guerin?!?
That implies that we won't make the playoffs, or at least be close, I think we will regardless. DW will not go into sell mode near the deadline if he thinks he even has a shot at the playoffs.

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Old
06-15-2012, 05:13 PM
  #930
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EJ Hradek ‏@EJHradek_NHL
Wild GM Chuck Fletcher says he talked to 10 or 12 other managers today. The trade talk around the league is heating up.





Let's get this goin'!

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Old
06-15-2012, 05:24 PM
  #931
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Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
EJ Hradek ‏@EJHradek_NHL
Wild GM Chuck Fletcher says he talked to 10 or 12 other managers today. The trade talk around the league is heating up.





Let's get this goin'!
Seriously. It's going to be a long couple of months so I need more to read about here.

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06-15-2012, 05:46 PM
  #932
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Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
EJ Hradek ‏@EJHradek_NHL
Wild GM Chuck Fletcher says he talked to 10 or 12 other managers today. The trade talk around the league is heating up.





Let's get this goin'!
Wonder if one of those is his ole' buddy Wilson...

Wouldn't mind snatching Clutterbuck from him.

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Old
06-15-2012, 05:54 PM
  #933
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
That implies that we won't make the playoffs, or at least be close, I think we will regardless. DW will not go into sell mode near the deadline if he thinks he even has a shot at the playoffs.
I agree with you in that DW philosophy. Be it now or the trade deadline I don't think DW is ever thinking sell. Marleau just isn't the type of player DW likes trading.

I just don't think he'll get any return he likes for Marleau

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06-15-2012, 06:36 PM
  #934
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Wonder if one of those is his ole' buddy Wilson...

Wouldn't mind snatching Clutterbuck from him.
Hell, I'll take Backstrom

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Old
06-15-2012, 06:39 PM
  #935
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Who said Marleau was "irreplaceable"? I certainly didn't. I think it's funny that you're not allowed to have unconditional support for a guy who has done so much as a Shark, but it's completely okay to have irrational hate towards a guy you don't know.

And if we get Nash, go you really see Pavelski cracking 30 goals again? Because I certainly don't.
no if we get nash i dont see pavelski ever getting 30 again, its awfully hard to score on columbus

lets say we get nash, without trading pavelski, pavelski becomes our #3 center. if he pots 20-25, and Nash gets 35, call me bad at math, but is that not an improvement? handzus/moore/whoever else played 3C, sure as hell didnt combine for 20

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06-15-2012, 06:43 PM
  #936
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no if we get nash i dont see pavelski ever getting 30 again, its awfully hard to score on columbus

lets say we get nash, without trading pavelski, pavelski becomes our #3 center. if he pots 20-25, and Nash gets 35, call me bad at math, but is that not an improvement? handzus/moore/whoever else played 3C, sure as hell didnt combine for 20
I'm talking about the scenario where we trade Marleau+ for Nash. The first line would be Nash-Thornton-Pavelski, and you know which of those guys Thornton is going to be passing too. I don't think Pavelski breaks 20 in that situation.

And besides, with your situation, 30 (Pavelski) + 30 (Marleau) is better than 20 (Pavelski) + 35 (Nash).

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06-15-2012, 06:56 PM
  #937
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Hell, I'll take Backstrom
You sure? Backstrom makes almost $3M more and his career sv% is just .003 greater than Niemi's (.918 vs .915). And he's injury prone.

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Old
06-15-2012, 07:42 PM
  #938
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I agree. I find it a bit polarizing with Marleau's attitude because when I play sports or am involved in any sort of competition I am more vocal and passionate.. but this isn't my criticism here with Marleau, however odd I find it.

As you have pointed out, my criticism is that the effort is lacking, not that he isn't calling out his teammates and being vocal and looking pissed off (which again, totally weird).

He can be as quiet and unflappable as he wants if the all out effort/drive/determination/grit/sacrifice is there. It hasn't been, which makes his lackadaisical attitude stick out even more.
And how do you know that the effort isn't there? How is his effort not there but Thornton's is when Marleau had over twice as many hits as Thornton? When he had more blocked shots than Thornton?

To be quite honest, most people here don't know how to properly gauge effort level and certainly not give it the proper context because effort is shown differently in the role you play on the ice. If you're Marleau playing with Thornton and Pavelski, you're seeing the puck a lot less and you're forced to play the more defensive role which means less getting involved down low and less getting involved in front of the net because you have to make up for the fact that Thornton and Pavelski cannot play transition defense to save their life in the positions they are in with the speed they have.

There is simply no way that this team can get better by trading Marleau. None. If they want to move him to move on, that's fine but you might as well do the complete rebuild or there's just no point. But anyone thinking that Marleau can be moved in a way that would improve our chances next season is dreaming. Heatley for Havlat worked because our team speed improved but even that had its drawbacks. There's no way to make an improvement where this team needs it the most by trading Marleau.

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Old
06-15-2012, 09:00 PM
  #939
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
The first line would be Nash-Thornton-Pavelski, and you know which of those guys Thornton is going to be passing too.
But I thought Thornton ignores the left handed shooter and focuses solely on the right.

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06-15-2012, 09:13 PM
  #940
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
There is simply no way that this team can get better by trading Marleau. None.
Hypothetically, if you traded Marleau for a package similar to Mike Richards (less, but you get the idea), and then proceeded to sign Parise, the team would technically be better.
At worst, the Marleau to Parise flip is a lateral move (I'd argue Parise is better if not simply because of the age factor). Both are good defensively. Marleau has size and is more physical. Parise is a better forechecker and is more crafty.

Unrealistic yes, but it's not like one of those ridiculous impossible scenarios like trading Marleau for Giroux/Crosby (which also would make the team better).

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06-15-2012, 10:06 PM
  #941
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Rumor on the main board is that Kane doesn't want to resign with Winnipeg. Wouldn't mind trading for him!

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06-15-2012, 10:06 PM
  #942
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And how do you know that the effort isn't there? How is his effort not there but Thornton's is when Marleau had over twice as many hits as Thornton? When he had more blocked shots than Thornton?
I guess I can only go by my eyeballs' estimation where I notice Marleau floating a lot.

And it's hard for Thornton to hit and block shots when he has the puck, duh

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Old
06-15-2012, 10:28 PM
  #943
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Rumor on the main board is that Kane doesn't want to resign with Winnipeg. Wouldn't mind trading for him!
Maybe I'm reading him completely wrong, but I always got the impression that he has motivation issues (boy, do I like him when he's firing on all cylinders). I'm not sure we've got the best kind of staff to squeeze every ounce of effort out of guys.

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Old
06-15-2012, 10:35 PM
  #944
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Maybe I'm reading him completely wrong, but I always got the impression that he has motivation issues (boy, do I like him when he's firing on all cylinders). I'm not sure we've got the best kind of staff to squeeze every ounce of effort out of guys.
If Kane's available, I'd send them Pavelski+, that's the kind of trade I would move Pavelski for.

They would want Couture though, and I wouldn't do that. Couture is too versatile.

I'd send them Marleau too, if he'd waive for them (doubtful). Marleau for Kane makes the Sharks a better team imo, now and long term.

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Old
06-15-2012, 10:49 PM
  #945
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Will Stuart wear #7 again?

Yep, you guessed it, I'm bored

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Old
06-15-2012, 11:02 PM
  #946
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Will Stuart wear #7 again?

Yep, you guessed it, I'm bored
#77 book it.

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06-15-2012, 11:09 PM
  #947
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#77 book it.
that'd be kind of cool I suppose

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06-15-2012, 11:10 PM
  #948
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Look Marleau probably has eight good years left. Sure he is replaceable. Developing a franchise D man has escaped the Sharks. A trade involving Marleau had better get a return of one of those.

And for the nit pickers... no I'm not saying a trade only involving Marleau

However I'd rather trade Thornton or Boyle... The original question was among the big three.

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Old
06-15-2012, 11:13 PM
  #949
Hatrick Marleau
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that'd be kind of cool I suppose
Yeah

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Old
06-15-2012, 11:15 PM
  #950
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I'm talking about the scenario where we trade Marleau+ for Nash. The first line would be Nash-Thornton-Pavelski, and you know which of those guys Thornton is going to be passing too. I don't think Pavelski breaks 20 in that situation.
I dont buy this at all. If Joe plays with Nash and Pavs, he will pass to the one who has a better chance to score the goal at that moment.
If other teams put heavier coverage on Nash than Pavs which is very likely, i can see pavs scoring 30 with nash maybe scoring 35-40

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