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Old
06-15-2012, 08:18 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by gowings4013 View Post
On a team that won more games in the playoffs than we did he had (among defenseman): the best plus-minus, 2nd most minutes played, 2nd in hits, 2nd in blocked shots, 2nd in points. He is good sized, defensively responsible, and has a bigger slapshot than anyone on our team. I think he could play a role similar to Stuart on the Wings. He could be a solid second pair guy on the Wings, who would contribute on the PP and PK. Flame away people, I'm ready.
Small sample size .

But on a more serious note, how many games did you see him play? Could you see him fitting the system well here and be sure that last year wasn't just a career year for him?

I certainly didn't see him much so really don't know.

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Old
06-15-2012, 08:43 PM
  #77
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I don't think Garrison is so good defensively as some people make him out to be. "Responsible defensively" is a very vague term. He's NOT a Stuart with a better shot, I don't think he's that type of defenseman at all really.

More importantly, Garrison isn't really filling a hole we need at the $ he's gonna demand.

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06-15-2012, 09:07 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by joe89 View Post
I don't think Garrison is so good defensively as some people make him out to be. "Responsible defensively" is a very vague term. He's NOT a Stuart with a better shot, I don't think he's that type of defenseman at all really.

More importantly, Garrison isn't really filling a hole we need at the $ he's gonna demand.
He's early in his development still, he's played less than 3 years. He is more like an Ericsson with a better shot as of right now. Although I think he's grittier than Ericsson. In terms of not a "Stuart type of defenseman", I disagree. He is not as polished yet, but he plays a similar game.

"Might Garrison fit in with the Wings? Absolutely. He'd make up in size and shot-blocking and penalty killing what the Wings lost in Stuart. He's got a big shot that could help rejuvenate the power play. He's young. He might make a very nice partner for Ian White, a smaller, right-handed shot. Garrison learned this past season how to be a go-to guy and got to develop his puck-handling skills, something the Wings look for in a defenseman to help facilitate the transition game."

"Garrison, 27, has very good size at 6-foot-2, 220 pounds. He's got a booming slap shot -- one that helped deliver nine power play goals -- and he's a solid penalty killer. He was second on the Panthers with an average of 23:41 minutes in playing time, and second with 124 blocked shots. He was credited with 127 hits (this, though, is one of the most subjective stats kept by the NHL)."

http://www.freep.com/article/2012061...jason-garrison

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06-15-2012, 09:08 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by joe89 View Post
I don't think Garrison is so good defensively as some people make him out to be. "Responsible defensively" is a very vague term. He's NOT a Stuart with a better shot, I don't think he's that type of defenseman at all really.

More importantly, Garrison isn't really filling a hole we need at the $ he's gonna demand.
I think he would fill a hole on the Wings, but I think he is going to ask for stupid money.

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06-15-2012, 09:23 PM
  #80
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Kronwall is probably a better comparison, grit-wise. Separates his player to make a defensive play, but isn't a bone-crushing or mean defenseman. If you reach a bit skillwise aswell, Garrison is a poor mans Kronwall. Skate, pass, shoot, shot block, semi-gritty, PP, PK. They may not look similar out there, but fill similar roles.

I don't think that is the deal breaker though, I just think Garrison's more PP than PK and not the other way around. In terms of replacing Stuart, we could really use the extra bucks to get a PK specialist and not just another PKer. If we get Suter, it will work itself out though.

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06-15-2012, 09:29 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by kemisti View Post
Small sample size .

But on a more serious note, how many games did you see him play? Could you see him fitting the system well here and be sure that last year wasn't just a career year for him?

I certainly didn't see him much so really don't know.
I have lived in Rochester and Ft Lauderdale over the last few years, so I have seen him quite a bit. He has come a long way, his improvements from last year to this year were impressive, even more drastic than Ericcson's recent transformation. He was given a lot bigger role this year and minutes, and he absolutely thrived. The guy went from undrafted played on the Amerks to top pair defenseman on a Panthers team that went to the playoffs in 3 years.

He is a very late bloomer and has a pretty interesting story:

It is remarkable how far Garrison has come. Throughout his days in the White Rock-area minor system he played all different levels. He was small at "five-foot-six" and considered "the NHL was a far reach." But when he saw his cousin, Elias Godoy, get a hockey scholarship to Umass-Lowell, something inside Garrison clicked.

He increased his work ethic and attained a scholarship, too, like Godoy, who is four years older and now playing in Norway.

It didn't hurt that Garrison experienced a growth spurt and filled out.

"I started living with my cousin and working out with him in the summer," the six-foot-two, 220-pound Garrison said. "I got serious. I learned from him what you had to physically and mentally to become a better player."

Garrison found a spot with Richmond Sockeyes junior-B team as an 18-year-old and it was there that head coach Ron Johnson moved Garrison from forward to defence.

"The shift in position elevated Garrison to the British Columbia Hockey League, the Nanaimo Clippers the following season, and later to the University of Minnesota-Duluth.
It was in Garrison's third season at Duluth that NHL scouts began to take notice of the reliable defenceman.

Now the kid who grew up idolizing Mario Lemieux finds himself in the NHL going up against the opposition's top talent.

"It's a fun role to shutdown the other team's top line," he said. "I look forward to it.""

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/hock...down-role.html

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06-15-2012, 09:33 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by joe89 View Post
Kronwall is probably a better comparison, grit-wise. Separates his player to make a defensive play, but isn't a bone-crushing or mean defenseman. If you reach a bit skillwise aswell, Garrison is a poor mans Kronwall. Skate, pass, shoot, shot block, semi-gritty, PP, PK. They may not look similar out there, but fill similar roles.

I don't think that is the deal breaker though, I just think Garrison's more PP than PK and not the other way around. In terms of replacing Stuart, we could really use the extra bucks to get a PK specialist and not just another PKer. If we get Suter, it will work itself out though.
Garrison's play style is not at all like Kronwall's. He got minutes as a defensive specialist first and developed offensively second.


Last edited by Frk It: 06-15-2012 at 09:50 PM.
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Old
06-23-2012, 06:37 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by gowings4013 View Post
Garrison's play style is not at all like Kronwall's. He got minutes as a defensive specialist first and developed offensively second.
To me it's not really important how you get there, and I'm definitely not comparing their styles because they're not alike. But they do similar things for your team even though Garrison obviously is not as proven. I guess what I'm trying to say is that we'll be paying for Garrison's offensive tools just as much as his defensive tools. That's why he's rumored to be demanding close $5M now, because he thinks he brings both offense and defense. He's not gonna come cheap in free agency and I'd rather pay a little less to just get the defensive side of things straightened out.

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06-23-2012, 10:48 PM
  #84
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FORWARDS
Zach Parise ($7.000m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Alexander Semin ($6.500m)
Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)
Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m) / Calle Jarnkrok ($0.900m) / Damien Brunner ($0.950m)
Justin Abdelkader ($1.550m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Brandon Prust ($1.750m)
Drew Miller ($0.838m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Ryan Suter ($7.000m) / Ian White ($2.875m)
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Brendan Smith ($0.875m)
Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m) / Kyle Quincey ($3.500m)
Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) /
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)
Joey MacDonald ($0.550m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $68,158,712; BONUSES: $322,500
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $2,141,288


I know not realistic, but wouldn't this line up be perfect? I'd love to see it and there could be a ton of moves made with the line ups throughout the season.

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Old
06-24-2012, 07:41 AM
  #85
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That third line would be so slick, but I don't know if it would be good enough defensivly and be able to handle bigger players... it's a very small line, all ~5'11...

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06-24-2012, 09:28 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by mindfly View Post
That third line would be so slick, but I don't know if it would be good enough defensivly and be able to handle bigger players... it's a very small line, all ~5'11...
Maybe switch Franzen and Brunner? I'm thinking Zetterberg could use right-handed shot. Though Franzen seems to be play really well with him.

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06-24-2012, 05:15 PM
  #87
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I am open to the idea of bringing in Semin. But anything over 5M a year is too rich for me.
The guy had a big down year offensively, and that paired with some glaring holes in his game that he has carried throughout his career... I think that puts him in the bargain bin of top line offensive players.

I'm really struggling to see where Abdelkader fits with this team for the upcoming season.
Miller's emergence last season, Nyquist being poised to burst through the door this year, and Bertuzzi's over 35 guarantee against the cap makes it tough. Especially if Detroit does the anticipated and brings in a veteran checker with some legit toughness.

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Old
06-27-2012, 05:29 PM
  #88
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Daydream

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Alexander Semin ($6.000m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Shane Doan ($5.000m)
Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Loui Eriksson ($4.250m)
Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m) / Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Danny Cleary ($2.800m)
Justin Abdelkader ($1.200m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Drew Miller ($0.838m)
Tomas Tatar ($0.840m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Ryan Suter ($7.000m)
Kyle Quincey ($3.500m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)
Joey MacDonald ($0.550m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $66,723,712; BONUSES: $247,500
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $3,476,288

Justin Schultz and Damien Brunner aren't on this list yet, because i didnt find them.
I now it's more than a big dream, but if it's possible our offense would be terribly good. Do you think it could be possible to trade Loui Eriksson for White+Bertuzzi+hudlers right's+1 rd. pick? Or maybe add a prospect to the deal?

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06-27-2012, 05:38 PM
  #89
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Do you think it could be possible to trade Loui Eriksson for White+Bertuzzi+hudlers right's+1 rd. pick? Or maybe add a prospect to the deal?
So in other words, **** for a diamond? No.

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06-27-2012, 05:44 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mindfly View Post
That third line would be so slick, but I don't know if it would be good enough defensivly and be able to handle bigger players... it's a very small line, all ~5'11...
Quote:
Originally Posted by kemisti View Post
Maybe switch Franzen and Brunner? I'm thinking Zetterberg could use right-handed shot. Though Franzen seems to be play really well with him.
If Jarnkrok gets here next season, assuming he makes the step right away, I would put him on the third line wing, with Helm in the middle and Franzen on the other wing. An option would be to let him center the 4th line and go from there, but I think he's a creative player that should be playing with some talent right from the start.

Nyquist(Tatar)-Datsyuk-X(free agent)
Filppula-Zetterberg-X(free agent, Tatar(Nyquist), Brunner)
Jarnkrok-Helm-Franzen
Bert-X-X

But that's next offseason

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06-27-2012, 08:35 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe89 View Post
If Jarnkrok gets here next season, assuming he makes the step right away, I would put him on the third line wing, with Helm in the middle and Franzen on the other wing. An option would be to let him center the 4th line and go from there, but I think he's a creative player that should be playing with some talent right from the start.

Nyquist(Tatar)-Datsyuk-X(free agent)
Filppula-Zetterberg-X(free agent, Tatar(Nyquist), Brunner)
Jarnkrok-Helm-Franzen
Bert-X-X

But that's next offseason
I would rather have him play top line minutes in GRR than 5-6 mins on Wings. I think Järnkrok could make the team based on his skills but the management tends to take things slowly.

I hope Brunner doesn't bust R shot is needed. Preferably two, in Semin. Or three in Doan .

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06-27-2012, 09:10 PM
  #92
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Is Tatar going to be on the team next season?

If not, what would be the asking price for him trade wise?

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06-27-2012, 10:20 PM
  #93
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Is Tatar going to be on the team next season?

If not, what would be the asking price for him trade wise?
Nope, he'll get another year in GR. And I really doubt he's available unless it's Top-6 talent coming back this way. At least, that's all I'd trade him for.

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Old
06-27-2012, 10:54 PM
  #94
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Is Tatar going to be on the team next season?

If not, what would be the asking price for him trade wise?
I am sure you could name him and a bunch of other pieces for Kane.

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Old
06-28-2012, 05:03 AM
  #95
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So in other words, **** for a diamond? No.
A 28 year old 50 point, 25 goal scorer, a first round pick and a top pairing defenseman? Yeah, bunk and a half

Sometimes I come to hfboards solely to read the overboard trade offers and opinions on those offers. Everyone around here so is ridiculously overvalued because everyone's so afraid of being mocked for undervaluing a guy.

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06-28-2012, 05:35 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by kemisti View Post
I would rather have him play top line minutes in GRR than 5-6 mins on Wings. I think Järnkrok could make the team based on his skills but the management tends to take things slowly.

I hope Brunner doesn't bust R shot is needed. Preferably two, in Semin. Or three in Doan .
Every comment made in the matter suggests that Calle's extra years in the SEL is instead of the AHL, not a prelude. Partly cus of his great club role in Sweden, partly cus it gives other prospects more ice time with the Griffins. He will be 22 then, so it will be similar to Helm, Abdelkader, Nyquist and Smith making the jump. I don't think they will hesitate to send him down, but I think they will give him every chance to crack the 2013/14 team right away if this season goes as planned.

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06-28-2012, 12:41 PM
  #97
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Every comment made in the matter suggests that Calle's extra years in the SEL is instead of the AHL, not a prelude. Partly cus of his great club role in Sweden, partly cus it gives other prospects more ice time with the Griffins. He will be 22 then, so it will be similar to Helm, Abdelkader, Nyquist and Smith making the jump. I don't think they will hesitate to send him down, but I think they will give him every chance to crack the 2013/14 team right away if this season goes as planned.
Jarnkrok probably will take Bert's roster spot in 14-15. Tatar will likely be on the roster in 13-14 for Emmerton, Miller, or Mursak (or possibly Cleary if he's traded) or 14-15 at the latest.

As for what I'm looking at to happen this offseason? It was pretty clear that the Wings needed one more scoring forward. And they need a top defenseman to take Lidstrom's spot. Which means they need someone at least as good as Hudler, PLUS another scoring forward. Given that Hudler is one of the five or six best offensive forwards available, and there aren't many high-end UFA defensemen, we're looking at either a trade situation or hoping for some good luck. Here's what I'm hoping for:

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Zach Parise ($7.500m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m)
Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Jiri Hudler ($4.000m)
Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Danny Cleary ($2.800m)
Justin Abdelkader ($1.250m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Drew Miller ($0.838m)
Jan Mursak ($0.550m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m)
DEFENSEMEN
Ryan Suter ($8.000m) / Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m)
Kyle Quincey ($3.250m) / Ian White ($2.875m)
Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) /
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)
Joey MacDonald ($0.550m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $70,167,045; BONUSES: $37,500
CAP SPACE (24-man roster): $32,955

Notice that there's an extra forward. I expect either Eaves is placed on LTIR or one of Eaves/Emmerton is traded before the season starts. Possibly an Eaves/Emmerton/Mursak/Miller+Quincey deal (or somesuch) to score a top-four defenseman with a cap hit in the $3.5m-$4.5m range. knocking off one of the bottom six forwards (salary-wise), the Wings would still have anywhere from $600k to $1.3m in free cap space.

If they get Semin at around $6m instead of Parise at $7.5m, that pushes it to $2.1m-$2.8m... which means trading Quincey, Tatar/Nyquist/Sheahan/Pulkkinen and a first could bring in a top-three defenseman. Replace the prospect with Mursak, Emmerton, or even Eaves and you can probably still get a decent second pair defensive guy. Which is really the move that needs to be made; the Wings only have two guys who are really "defensive" defensemen, plus Kronwall who can play pretty well in his own end, and White who's a decent shot blocker.

The Wings probably won't be able to match this forward lineup in UFA if they don't sign Hudler; he'll cost them less than any equivalent forward. Holland needs to sign him before July 1st; otherwise the Wings have a much bigger issue up front. Parise is very good, but Parise/Nyquist doesn't replace Hudler/Holmstrom.

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06-28-2012, 03:31 PM
  #98
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This is What the Wings are REALISTICALLY looking at in my opinion:

Forwards:
Filppula - Datsyuk - UFA (1)
Nyquist - Zetterberg - Franzen
Miller - Helm - Bertuzzi
Cleary - UFA (2) - Tatar/Eaves/Abdelkader

Defense
Kronwall - White
Quincey - UFA (3)
Ericsson - Smith
Kindl

UFA (1) -- Slim picking for a top line winger.
Talk of bringing Datsyuk in a fellow Russian.. Semin and A. Kostitsyn are a couple high risk/reward types.
Seems like Jagr (and his agent), soiled the relationship with Holland last year, so I doubt he is a possibility.
Not sure if Smyth and Jokinen are remaining in Alberta (both like it there), but either could be a one year stop gap solutions.
Boyes and Kristian Huselius ??? they've scored in the past... what can I say, it's a shallow pool for top line UFA wingers.
Or...Hudler could return

UFA (2) -- Depth checking line player with speed. Ideally a centre.
Jay McClement, Scott Nichol. I like both of them for their speed, defensive abilities and faceoff abilities. True centre ice men too. Nichol brings a little more grit.
Konopka and Micheal Haley are more gritty options. I've always liked Haley and think he could thrive in NHL given the right circumstance.
I'd prefer a centre, but settling for checking line wingers Langenbrunner or Taylor Pyatt wouldn't be bad either.
Also Rolston really came alive in Boston at the end of last year and still has that great speed that Detroit could use... Old as dirt, so won't be popular, I know.
Hagman is another burner, who is a relentless worker. But another small European forward, so also won't be popular, I know.

UFA (3) -- Preferably a defenseman with some size.
A bunch of options: Allen, Garrison, Kubina, Salvador, Souray, Salo, Roszinval.
Salvador looked great last year in NJD's top 4 and is a fitness freak. Him and Kubina would be my favorite options.
I would steer clear of Salo b/c of the injuries and Garrison because he may get big pay day for one season.
Cam Barker would be my personal favorite as a cheap project. I just can't give up on him yet. I thought he still looked somewhat promising when healthy last year.


Notes/shots of reality: I would love to just plug in Suter, Parise and Prust and call it an offseason, but come on...
Parise and Suter: I do not expect either of them to sign here.
It's completely unrealsitic. Every team in the league is going to covet these two and it sounds like Parise wants to stay in NJ and Pittsburgh is the favorite if Suter even leaves Nashville in the first place.
I like how posters are penciling them into the Wings lineup already, these are the same people who will bash Holland when it doesn't happen (and who had Schultz penciled into the lineup last week). Classic, when did the Red Wings become the Miami Heat of the NHL?

Prust: a good checking line player. But the hype is over the top. And given Tortorella loved the guy, but the Rangers didn't even negotiate once they heard his demands.. he must be asking for the world. I think there are very effective checking line/PKers out there who will be had for 1.5M less per year.

Doan: Would be great, but I don't see any reason he would want to sign in Detroit. Western Canadian Kid, who has played down south most of his career and family loved living out there. Also stated he didn't care to leave PHX for a contender. Again would be nice, but I fail to see any chance.


Last edited by Boomhower: 06-28-2012 at 03:40 PM.
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Old
06-28-2012, 03:40 PM
  #99
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Thank god you arent the GM of the Red Wings. We can look forward to the Wings not making the playoffs with your ridiculous pessimism. It's like the Red Wings are a garbage average franchise that has to scratch and claw to get any good FA's.

Suter is going to be a Wing. Parise.......probably not. Semin........feel pretty good about it.

Ken Holland should be fired if he does nothing with 24 million dollars except sign a bunch of value players.


Last edited by WingedWheel1987: 06-28-2012 at 03:46 PM.
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06-28-2012, 03:43 PM
  #100
probertrules24
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My guess.

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Alexander Semin($6.000m)
Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)
Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Damian Brunner($1.000m)
Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Justin Abdelkader($1.750m) / Danny Cleary ($2.800m)
Jan Mursak ($0.550m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m)
DEFENSEMEN
Ryan Suter($7.500m) / Ian White ($2.875m)
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / Kyle Quincey ($3.250m)
Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) /
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)
Joey MacDonald ($0.550m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $65,667,045; BONUSES: $37,500
CAP SPACE (24-man roster): $4,532,955

I don't think Holland will go anywhere near the cap just in case it drops. I have a 24 man roster in case Eaves isn't ready to go.

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