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CBJ-PHI (Rick Nash rumors and proposed deals; update: traded to NYR, July 23)

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Old
06-16-2012, 01:50 PM
  #51
Jray42
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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
Yes, so they can kick our ass even more than they did this season.

Also, do they have parks in Columbus? Maybe Bryz would waive to go there since this was a year from hell for him.
For 7.8m a season, they can have him. And by overpayment, if they have to pay Kreider + MDZ +, I'd be thrilled. Wont happen though.

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06-16-2012, 01:51 PM
  #52
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I said it before, this team does not need Nash. Nash is solving a non-existent problem with an $8mil hole.

The team needs effective role players, in the form of Lappy and Talbot, who specialize in defense, especially team defense.

We have zero problem scoring goals. We need tighter defensive play and players buying in to the system. Coupled with some luck and timely goaltending, this team succeeds.

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06-16-2012, 02:05 PM
  #53
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You forgot Carle..

He totally sucks

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06-16-2012, 02:08 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by mypunkrock View Post
I said it before, this team does not need Nash. Nash is solving a non-existent problem with an $8mil hole.

The team needs effective role players, in the form of Lappy and Talbot, who specialize in defense, especially team defense.

We have zero problem scoring goals. We need tighter defensive play and players buying in to the system. Coupled with some luck and timely goaltending, this team succeeds.
Thank you. We have no need for Nash. He's just the shiny new toy everyone wants, without looking at the big picture.

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06-16-2012, 02:11 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Jray42 View Post
For 7.8m a season, they can have him. And by overpayment, if they have to pay Kreider + MDZ +, I'd be thrilled. Wont happen though.
MDZ won't be in a nash to NYR trade.. He was terrible this year

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06-16-2012, 02:21 PM
  #56
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MDZ won't be in a nash to NYR trade.. He was terrible this year
What?

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06-16-2012, 02:23 PM
  #57
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MDZ won't be in a nash to NYR trade.. He was terrible this year
How do you figure that?

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06-16-2012, 02:25 PM
  #58
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Forget Nash, if Evander kane is as unhappy in Winnipeg as was mentioned use the same assets to acquire Kane instead.

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06-16-2012, 02:29 PM
  #59
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Am I confusing MDZ with Zucarello?

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06-16-2012, 02:33 PM
  #60
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Am I confusing MDZ with Zucarello?
Sounds like it.

MDZ made a strong debut a few years back, struggled two years ago, but rebounded pretty well this year.

I'm still not completely sold on him as a top-pairing defenseman, and I can't for the life of me figure out why Columbus would want him as a centerpiece for Nash (with Johnson and Wiz on board for the next 6 years), but he's a valuable piece.

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06-16-2012, 03:19 PM
  #61
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This is a joke right?

I mean we go to the ends of the earth to get Bryz - he has one bad year of a 9 year contract, so we should instead revert back to a carousel of backup goalies?

Come on - if Bryz has another bad year, I won't constantly chime in to defend him to bashers but to ship him out after 1 season in a new city seems ridiculous.

What happens then? We already sign players to lengthy contracts (Carter and Richards) and they can't feel safe - luckily we have Giroux and such. You do this to a goalie after our city is already notorious for how tough we are on goalies, what kind of great goalie will want to sign here?

Who would think to themselves, gee I am a top caliber goalie and I want to play in Philly? Forget it. You have to give Bryz a bit of a chance.

Not to mention, Suter is not coming here.

I would love to have JJ and their second over all or one or the other.

I could care less about Nash. But, I am not willing to revert back to the backup tandem tradition that has been the past few years.
Well said. I agree with you on every point. I do not want Suter. To me he is a beefed up version of Matt Carle. We do not need Nash. This team needs help on the backline. I would go nuts if we could some how land Weber. This is the guy who could and would replace Pronger. I to am rooting for Bryz next year. Antway put me down for not wanting Nash. The cost would be way to much. Plus if it is true that there are multiple teams after him. Then we do not need to get in some crazy bidding war.

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06-16-2012, 03:23 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
Am I confusing MDZ with Zucarello?
Maybe you are thinking MZA...Mats Zuccarello-Aasen

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06-16-2012, 03:58 PM
  #63
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MDZ got fried left and right by parise, and I doubt the rangers let him go even for Nash. They r all in love him with him and he's going to get a substantial raise as well

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06-16-2012, 06:38 PM
  #64
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Del Zotto showed tremendous growth this season, didn't matchup well vs Parise, but a lot of D-Men don't.

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06-16-2012, 09:09 PM
  #65
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Chris Pronger had plenty of trouble with Zach Parise when he was healthy. Parise's a hell of a player. That shouldn't be held against MDZ.

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06-16-2012, 10:21 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by usahockey22flyers View Post
Del Zotto showed tremendous growth this season, didn't matchup well vs Parise, but a lot of D-Men don't.
Yeah MDZ wasn't nearly the liability in his own end this year as he was previously. Just part of the learning curve of an NHL defenseman.

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06-16-2012, 10:26 PM
  #67
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JvR
Read
Mez
Bob
(+?)

for

Nash
30th overall OR 31st overall


Enough cap moves to negate Nash's huge contract. We keep Schenn, Couts, and Jake. We also land a pick in the process...something we could possibly land Bystrom, Thrower, or Skjei with if they drop a bit (or Hyka if his value skyrockets).

Thoughts? (besides "I don't want Nash")

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06-16-2012, 10:29 PM
  #68
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I can't imagine the Flyers weaken their defensive group further in a trade, unless they had Suter or something like Carle AND Garrison with pens in their hands.

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06-16-2012, 10:55 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
JvR
Read
Mez
Bob
(+?)

for

Nash
30th overall OR 31st overall


Enough cap moves to negate Nash's huge contract. We keep Schenn, Couts, and Jake. We also land a pick in the process...something we could possibly land Bystrom, Thrower, or Skjei with if they drop a bit (or Hyka if his value skyrockets).

Thoughts? (besides "I don't want Nash")
No, no, no.

You've negated Nash's contract by eliminating three roster players, one of whom (Read) is on a glorious contract for his production, a quality defenseman (albeit one coming off a less than ideal season), and an average, if overpaid backup goaltender.

If we take on Nash's salary, we still have to replace those two position players. This is problematic, particularly for Mez, given all the massive concerns related to our defense.

And those other problem is the long term impact of Nash's contract.

Losing Mez means Lilja gets more playing time, which we know he cannot handle, and a bottom 6 of second year players to save cap space.

Losing Read means losing a two way PP/PKer, etc.

And we don't have a backup, which means dropping a mil on one.

So, even if the overall cap hit is negligible, the added pieces mean we lose space overall.

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Old
06-16-2012, 10:57 PM
  #70
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No Nash, not at all please. It would be a typical Flyers trade for a guy on a huge contract whose previous team is done with him right about the time he's getting set to decline. Average forward loses 28% of their scoring between ages 27-33. Nash has only broken 70 points once, and never got to 80. So, who here wants to have a 50-point player with almost $8M on our cap?

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06-16-2012, 11:05 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
JvR
Read
Mez
Bob
(+?)

for

Nash
30th overall OR 31st overall


Enough cap moves to negate Nash's huge contract. We keep Schenn, Couts, and Jake. We also land a pick in the process...something we could possibly land Bystrom, Thrower, or Skjei with if they drop a bit (or Hyka if his value skyrockets).

Thoughts? (besides "I don't want Nash")

It's impossible to replace Read with Nash and still make the cap situation work.

JVR + Bob is the most the Flyers can realistically offer from their roster.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
No Nash, not at all please. It would be a typical Flyers trade for a guy on a huge contract whose previous team is done with him right about the time he's getting set to decline. Average forward loses 28% of their scoring between ages 27-33. Nash has only broken 70 points once, and never got to 80. So, who here wants to have a 50-point player with almost $8M on our cap?
This again? The average forward isn't a Team Canada stalwart who leaves the Columbus Blue Jackets after his age 27 season.


Last edited by Damaged Goods: 06-16-2012 at 11:15 PM.
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Old
06-16-2012, 11:54 PM
  #72
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This again? The average forward isn't a Team Canada stalwart who leaves the Columbus Blue Jackets after his age 27 season.
Players are generally past their prime offensively after age 27. They don't get better when they're 30. It's not worth the risk to improve a strength with a guy whose outrageous cap number isn't worth the difference when we have other needs (such as two defensemen).

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06-16-2012, 11:56 PM
  #73
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Players are generally past their prime offensively after age 27. They don't get better when they're 30. It's not worth the risk to improve a strength with a guy whose outrageous cap number isn't worth the difference when we have other needs (such as two defensemen).
Rick Nash's numbers can improve without Rick Nash improving. If he leaves Columbus, they likely will.

Believe it or not, goals and assists in hockey are partially a reflection of team-work.

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06-17-2012, 12:02 AM
  #74
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You guys are looking too much into his cap hit. While it is high, he's an elite 1st line power forward, basically JVR's ceiling which I am doubting he will reach (and I like JVR). There's a passiveness to JVR and his game which I don't like and reminds me of Carter.

Anyway, my point about the cap hit is at 7.8, that's slightly more than the combined cap hits of JVR (4.25) and Jagr (3.3 last year, 3-3.5 this year estimate).

So we get our top flight winger for the long run. We don't have to bury one of Couturier/Schenn/Read on the 4th line. Hartnell might not be as effective in scoring in the future (who knows) and Simmonds could very well replace him once his contract is up, and at a cheaper cost.
Nash and Voracek have some chemistry together, and we get Briere and Hartnell reunited since Danny seems to have chemistry issues in the regular season.

Assuming we can't sign Suter, sign a solid physical D-man until we can get Weber from Free Agency.

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Old
06-17-2012, 12:02 AM
  #75
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No, no, no.

You've negated Nash's contract by eliminating three roster players, one of whom (Read) is on a glorious contract for his production, a quality defenseman (albeit one coming off a less than ideal season), and an average, if overpaid backup goaltender.

If we take on Nash's salary, we still have to replace those two position players. This is problematic, particularly for Mez, given all the massive concerns related to our defense.

And those other problem is the long term impact of Nash's contract.

Losing Mez means Lilja gets more playing time, which we know he cannot handle, and a bottom 6 of second year players to save cap space.

Losing Read means losing a two way PP/PKer, etc.

And we don't have a backup, which means dropping a mil on one.

So, even if the overall cap hit is negligible, the added pieces mean we lose space overall.
We cancel the cap out, and include Pronger's LTIR, and include the cap ceiling skyrocketing this summer...we'll have plenty of space for a back-up goalie, another D-man, and Jagr (if they really want to go in that direction). Lilja likely won't play over Gus AND MAB, and I still contend Lilja was a serviceable 6/7 last season, so he shouldn't be feared like he is.

We have an abundance of PK/PPers and Nash adds another of both.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
No Nash, not at all please. It would be a typical Flyers trade for a guy on a huge contract whose previous team is done with him right about the time he's getting set to decline. Average forward loses 28% of their scoring between ages 27-33. Nash has only broken 70 points once, and never got to 80. So, who here wants to have a 50-point player with almost $8M on our cap?
Multiple people, myself included, have been debunking this crap about Nash declining, and his career point totals, and his cap for over a week. It's a shallow argument to just stare at his numbers and not think why he may not be scoring...

To put it simply; Scott Hartnell (Power forward) in his age 29-30 season --- career high 67 points, playing next to Giroux. Imagine Nash there instead.

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