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06-16-2012, 12:58 PM
  #76
Harley83
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Originally Posted by CarvinSigX View Post
It would be retarded to trade Schwartz. Are you comfortable with 3 former concussed players on the left side and one of them will likely retire soon?
I had brought up the point of the three injury prone left-wingers weeks ago and others didn't think it would be right to call Steen and Perron injury prone since they took the appropriate amount of time to heal from their concussions and that basically it would be a non-factor in the future. After watching some of the leagues best be forced into retirement I'm under the belief that after the first major concussion each hit is a potentially career-ending one.

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06-16-2012, 01:11 PM
  #77
Multimoodia
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Originally Posted by Harley83 View Post
The Joe Thornton that attacks and cheap-shots non-fighters to the likes of Perron, Sedin, Lidstrom, Datsyuk, Sulander and Desjardins on the ice and then off the ice makes comments about the Bruins being favored, calls the New York Rangers the softest team they played
Yes, absolutely freaking yes.
You love Jackman and then turn around and complain about Thornton? Jackman who follows Kane across the ice the punch in the back of the head, subtly butt-end the second the ref is looking the other way, etc.? The same guy who said, and I quote, when the Blackhawks complained about how the Blues played "Sorry we hurt their feelings"
I can only presume you would not want Pronger on the team either.


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gets arrested for assaulting a police officer? Playing tough guy to non-fighters, trash-talking during interviews and getting arrested for trying to fight the police, that reminds of somebody.... Sean Avery.
Are you referring to the 2003 thing where a half-drunk Jumbo Joe was arrested for shoving an officer that was placing his brother in hand-cuffs? That was almost a decade ago and there has not been a peep about off-ice behavior since. Thornton is not exactly Eddie Belfour here.






Flatly speaking, if the Blues were able to somehow land Thornton for a good price (which I doubt, it would require losing one of our two main centers, other serious pieces, etc.) the Blues would finally have an imposing #1 center which they have been lacking for a very, very long time. Army would be absolutely stupid to not inquire were San Jose to make it known that Jumbo was available. I would take Thornton on my team any day of the week and frankly anyone disagreeing because of farcical issues needs to consider watching the first round from this year again.

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06-16-2012, 07:09 PM
  #78
Harley83
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Originally Posted by Multimoodia View Post
Yes, absolutely freaking yes.
You love Jackman and then turn around and complain about Thornton? Jackman who follows Kane across the ice the punch in the back of the head, subtly butt-end the second the ref is looking the other way, etc.? The same guy who said, and I quote, when the Blackhawks complained about how the Blues played "Sorry we hurt their feelings"
I can only presume you would not want Pronger on the team either.

Flatly speaking, if the Blues were able to somehow land Thornton for a good price (which I doubt, it would require losing one of our two main centers, other serious pieces, etc.) the Blues would finally have an imposing #1 center which they have been lacking for a very, very long time. Army would be absolutely stupid to not inquire were San Jose to make it known that Jumbo was available. I would take Thornton on my team any day of the week and frankly anyone disagreeing because of farcical issues needs to consider watching the first round from this year again.
I don't think they are farcical issues whatsoever. I'm sure it would be pretty awkward for Perron to play on the same team with him after being put out for 13 months with a dirty hit by Thornton. Jackman doesn't carry near the baggage that Thornton does and he has also been on our team for eight seasons. Your presumptions are right, Pronger has had a lot of good seasons with the Blues in the past and in the NHL all together but with his injuries, cost, and age I don't see many more NHL games from him let alone seasons.

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06-16-2012, 07:54 PM
  #79
Multimoodia
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Originally Posted by Harley83 View Post
I don't think they are farcical issues whatsoever. I'm sure it would be pretty awkward for Perron to play on the same team with him after being put out for 13 months with a dirty hit by Thornton. Jackman doesn't carry near the baggage that Thornton does and he has also been on our team for eight seasons. Your presumptions are right, Pronger has had a lot of good seasons with the Blues in the past and in the NHL all together but with his injuries, cost, and age I don't see many more NHL games from him let alone seasons.
What baggage? He had one incident, almost a decade ago.

Perron is a professional who himself said that he understands and forgives Thornton. Plus with Joe on the Blues that keeps him from running over Perron again so that is a double plus. Seems like a win-win for David...unless Joe pulls a Jackman and runs David over in the playoffs.
(I mis-typed previously: I meant that you must not have wanted Pronger on the team. By that I meant when the Blues traded him for scraps)

You seem to want to make excuses for one player but not for another...I find this attitude to be really quite puzzling.

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06-16-2012, 09:29 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Multimoodia View Post
What baggage? He had one incident, almost a decade ago.

Perron is a professional who himself said that he understands and forgives Thornton. Plus with Joe on the Blues that keeps him from running over Perron again so that is a double plus. Seems like a win-win for David...unless Joe pulls a Jackman and runs David over in the playoffs.
(I mis-typed previously: I meant that you must not have wanted Pronger on the team. By that I meant when the Blues traded him for scraps)

You seem to want to make excuses for one player but not for another...I find this attitude to be really quite puzzling.
Maybe Harley just doesn't like Joe Thornton.

I can tell you he's not my favorite player, either. He's a talent, that's undeniable, but I sure wouldn't make a Garth Butcher-type trade to get him on the Blues.

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06-17-2012, 02:31 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Prussian_Blue View Post
Maybe Harley just doesn't like Joe Thornton.

I can tell you he's not my favorite player, either. He's a talent, that's undeniable, but I sure wouldn't make a Garth Butcher-type trade to get him on the Blues.
As I mentioned previously, it would have to be at a good price I would whole-heartedly agree if the deal was too high (according to Army) then the Blues would need to pass on it.

All players have their up and downsides, I simply do not see why one has to make excuses for why a player should not be brought in. In particular when such a line in the sand was drawn for another player with very similar qualities.

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06-17-2012, 01:14 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Multimoodia View Post

All players have their up and downsides, I simply do not see why one has to make excuses for why a player should not be brought in. In particular when such a line in the sand was drawn for another player with very similar qualities.
Jackman is a pest while Thornton just loses his head. Comparing Jackman to Thornton in terms of behavior is like comparing Chris Neil to Chris Simon just because they both have played dirty. Neil is in control of his emotions and is aware of his actions like Jackman but Thornton like Simon completely loses all control. Jackman will also fight larger people that are legit fighters not just those who are smaller and won't fight back like Thornton does. The tough guy already went after Nick Lidstrom, who is next on his list Martin St. Louis?

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06-17-2012, 01:21 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Harley83 View Post
Jackman is a pest while Thornton just loses his head. Comparing Jackman to Thornton in terms of behavior is like comparing Chris Neil to Chris Simon just because they both have played dirty. Neil is in control of his emotions and is aware of his actions like Jackman but Thornton like Simon completely loses all control. Jackman will also fight larger people that are legit fighters not just those who are smaller and won't fight back like Thornton does. The tough guy already went after Nick Lidstrom, who is next on his list Martin St. Louis?
Gotta say, this is kind of a bizarre opinion of Thornton. I'm not arguing that he's a player I'd want the Blues to pay a premium for, but he's a great hockey player who would improve the team....and these "character" issues just don't match the guy I've watched the last several seasons. One of the reasons the Perron hit was so high profile was that Thornton DOESN'T have a record of borderline hits or intent to injure. As for the off-the-ice stuff, I'm not terribly impressed. Its not like he intimidated a cab-driver and didn't tip him.

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06-17-2012, 02:06 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by 2 Minute Minor View Post
Gotta say, this is kind of a bizarre opinion of Thornton. I'm not arguing that he's a player I'd want the Blues to pay a premium for, but he's a great hockey player who would improve the team....and these "character" issues just don't match the guy I've watched the last several seasons. One of the reasons the Perron hit was so high profile was that Thornton DOESN'T have a record of borderline hits or intent to injure. As for the off-the-ice stuff, I'm not terribly impressed. Its not like he intimidated a cab-driver and didn't tip him.
He actually had a record of bad hits not even questionable ones prior to the Perron hit and I don't know why they didn't factor that into his suspension. He blasted Tom Kostopoulos in Lemieux/Draper fashion, Hal Gill from behind into the boards and then laid a post-whistle shot on Holmstrom, all prior to the Perron hit.

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06-17-2012, 04:21 PM
  #85
Multimoodia
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Originally Posted by Harley83 View Post
Jackman is a pest while Thornton just loses his head. Comparing Jackman to Thornton in terms of behavior is like comparing Chris Neil to Chris Simon just because they both have played dirty. Neil is in control of his emotions and is aware of his actions like Jackman but Thornton like Simon completely loses all control. Jackman will also fight larger people that are legit fighters not just those who are smaller and won't fight back like Thornton does. The tough guy already went after Nick Lidstrom, who is next on his list Martin St. Louis?
Two points:

Most players snap eventually, the difference is they are not the size of Thornton so no-one notices. Not ideal, but not uncommon.

In regards to the going after Martin St. Louis thing. If the Lightning were unwilling to keep that from happening: then yes.
You know, much like Jackman goes after Kane as soon as there is any scrum.
I want players like that, why you do not has been absolutely baffling.

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07-04-2012, 03:50 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by MattyMo35 View Post
The biggest difference between those teams and the Blues is the high end super-talents on the top forward line. The Blues can compete with the majority of the Defensive corps out of the bunch, but the lack of true scoring prowess on the top line is what really separates the Blues from the Cup Champs. Man that Hawks team in 2010 was so stacked lol.
Wings fan coming in peace, again. I live in STL, so the Blues are my "second team" you could say. Anyway, I always refer to that 2010 cup winning Hawks team as "The Rent-A-Cup" team. They took massive cap hits to get it, and have suffered for it since, IMO. If there's one thing Wings and Blues fans can agree on, it's that the Blackhawks suck.

As far as the present day Blues go, I think you Blues fans have a bright future ahead of you. You've got a good amount of pretty young talent with a couple of older/experienced players in there to balance things out, as well as two awesome brick walls for goalies. I really like Alex Pietrangelo. He kind of reminds me of a young Nick Lidstrom, which spells trouble for my team in the coming years.

One other thing I noticed that was missing in the team comparisons was coaching. I wouldn't mind Hitchcock coaching for my Red Wings. He's made a world of difference between the 2010-2011 and 2011-2012 Blues.

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07-05-2012, 09:46 AM
  #87
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Thanks for the support, I suppose

I personally have no issues with pests as long as they dont try to injure or take it too far. Jax is a decent representation of this, getting involved post whistle without headhunting. I dont like a lot of the slashes to legs I see occasionally, but I can't really do anything about it.

As for joe, he would be a.perfect player on this team. Him behind the net in the playoff series was beyond stressful for me as a viewer. And he has size and strength.

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