Carle and Coburn had similar zone starts this year, but Coburn faced tougher competition with only Timonen facing tougher opponents.
Carle had a better Corsi rating and was, again, only behind Timonen in Corsi rating among defensemen.
It's definitely hard to say who is a better all-around defensemen, but it is easy to say that Coburn is more trusted and relied on defensively while Carle is probably more valuable to the Flyers offensive game. The fact that Carle isn't sheltered while maintaining a high Corsi rating is a very good sign moving forward as he wasn't "carried by Pronger" this year and was still a solid defensemen. Coburn is our #2 on defense, while Carle is our #2 on offense. Timonen appears to be #1 in both categories.
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If this team gets some solid defensive forwards and guys like Couturier, Schenn and even Wellwood take the next step into being full-time two-way players, our 'defensive lapses' might disappear.
Briere needs to be sheltered, heavily. Numbers don't lie, he is the epitome of a defensive liability. Simmonds and Schenn, both considered to be strong defensively, had seemingly identical numbers to Briere in regards to zone starts and finishes, quality of competition and Corsi. To put it simply, they were all not very good.
Carle and Coburn had similar zone starts this year, but Coburn faced tougher competition with only Timonen facing tougher opponents.
Carle had a better Corsi rating and was, again, only behind Timonen in Corsi rating among defensemen.
It's definitely hard to say who is a better all-around defensemen, but it is easy to say that Coburn is more trusted and relied on defensively while Carle is probably more valuable to the Flyers offensive game. The fact that Carle isn't sheltered while maintaining a high Corsi rating is a very good sign moving forward as he wasn't "carried by Pronger" this year and was still a solid defensemen. Coburn is our #2 on defense, while Carle is our #2 on offense. Timonen appears to be #1 in both categories.
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If this team gets some solid defensive forwards and guys like Couturier, Schenn and even Wellwood take the next step into being full-time two-way players, our 'defensive lapses' might disappear.
Briere needs to be sheltered, heavily. Numbers don't lie, he is the epitome of a defensive liability. Simmonds and Schenn, both considered to be strong defensively, had seemingly identical numbers to Briere in regards to zone starts and finishes, quality of competition and Corsi. To put it simply, they were all not very good.
This is a great post. The more I think about it the more I realized that defense isnt nesscissarily about the personnel of your 6 defenseman. Its about all 5 guys on the ice.
Lets be brutally honest here, Giroux and Briere may be the worst top two centerman in the league at defense ( as a tandem). They are both small, offensive players and that needs to be addressed. I hope that Courturier and Schenn can step in and become that responsible two way 2nd line centerman next year for us. But even then we still have issues. We need to round out the roster with more repsonble two way players and to be frank that means a large roster change. We just dont have the personnel to really compete successfully at both ends of the ice. Signing jagr is just going to compound the problem.
This is a great post. The more I think about it the more I realized that defense isnt nesscissarily about the personnel of your 6 defenseman. Its about all 5 guys on the ice.
Lets be brutally honest here, Giroux and Briere may be the worst top two centerman in the league at defense ( as a tandem). They are both small, offensive players and that needs to be addressed. I hope that Courturier and Schenn can step in and become that responsible two way 2nd line centerman next year for us. But even then we still have issues. We need to round out the roster with more repsonble two way players and to be frank that means a large roster change. We just dont have the personnel to really compete successfully at both ends of the ice. Signing jagr is just going to compound the problem.
Thanks. We can complain about our defensemen all we want but I see the issues defensively revolving more around our team as a unit.
Giroux is really good. His defensive numbers as a #1 center are decent enough and his offensive numbers are obviously fantastic, however you can really see his value in relation to the numbers of his linemates. Jagr and Hartnell had great numbers and were definitely not liabilities this regular season regarding zone time & Corsi (even though Jagr was mostly starting in the offensive zone), and that says a lot about Giroux himself.
What we need is patience, which especially after watching Richards and Carter lift the Cup not a lot of us have around here.
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When the Penguins won the Cup, Staal was turning 21 finishing his third full season. If Couturier can develop like Staal and Giroux can flourish as a #1 center, in addition to our other holes being fixed, we have a good chance at a Cup. The Penguins built around Staal, Malkin, Crosby and Fleury. They had a defense of Gill, Orpik, Gonchar, Letang in his 2nd full season, Eaton and Scuderi. Very sound defensively with two very good puck movers. We need to build our defense like this if we are going to continue to play a run-n-gun style. Grossmann, Coburn and Carle are a good start but lots of work needs to be done. Since Briere is our 'Malkin' we obviously need better wingers for him. Voracek was probably our 2nd best winger this past year, so perhaps pairing Voracek and Briere will be beneficial especially if we can get a defensively reliable LW (Hartnell?).
To be honest, I'm not going into next season expecting the Stanley Cup like I have in years past. This needs to be a growing year in addition challenging for the cup. 40 years without a cup is when I will start to lose it... so I still have 3 years of optimism.
Did anyone see that *************** guy tweeted we are close to acquiring Nash from Columbus? Just putting it out there. Also said couts wouldn't be part of deal. Can't link it because I'm at work and on the cellie yo!
Did anyone see that *************** guy tweeted we are close to acquiring Nash from Columbus? Just putting it out there. Also said couts wouldn't be part of deal. Can't link it because I'm at work and on the cellie yo!
Alright alright people I get it!! Just was bored at work and saw it on twitter. Was just trying to give myself a little excitement here at work. Bunch of buzz kills you all are haha
Alright alright people I get it!! Just was bored at work and saw it on twitter. Was just trying to give myself a little excitement here at work. Bunch of buzz kills you all are haha
We're not even vindictive
Truthfully, most of us hate the endless rumors that get a lemming-like following. While any decision can be debated (and often reviled), most of us just care about the team
Meh, he is what he is, says so, and doesn't shy away from it. He's a rumor guy. Just like Eklund. Just like Inc Bob. It's fun/exhausting to drool over what they say, but it should always be taken with a grain of salt. Just because he misses out on 29/30 rumors doesn't mean his word absolutely shouldn't be considered.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanSciver
Your entitled to that opinion.
That's a statement with no substance. I'd be glad to listen to your factual response of why it is false.
You've got to be kidding me with Carle over Coburn. Did you watch Coburn at the end of the season/playoffs?
if simmonds and hartnell both put up the same number this year how much do u think they are going to want at the end of the year? i think we may have to let hartnell walk
