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Offseason Thread 2012 II: Offseason Harder

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Old
06-16-2012, 07:03 PM
  #351
VanSciver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
No. I take coburn over Carle 52 days a week
Your entitled to that opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giroux 4 MVP View Post
1000% false
That's a statement with no substance. I'd be glad to listen to your factual response of why it is false.

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06-16-2012, 07:26 PM
  #352
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Carle and Coburn had similar zone starts this year, but Coburn faced tougher competition with only Timonen facing tougher opponents.

Carle had a better Corsi rating and was, again, only behind Timonen in Corsi rating among defensemen.

It's definitely hard to say who is a better all-around defensemen, but it is easy to say that Coburn is more trusted and relied on defensively while Carle is probably more valuable to the Flyers offensive game. The fact that Carle isn't sheltered while maintaining a high Corsi rating is a very good sign moving forward as he wasn't "carried by Pronger" this year and was still a solid defensemen. Coburn is our #2 on defense, while Carle is our #2 on offense. Timonen appears to be #1 in both categories.

---

If this team gets some solid defensive forwards and guys like Couturier, Schenn and even Wellwood take the next step into being full-time two-way players, our 'defensive lapses' might disappear.

Briere needs to be sheltered, heavily. Numbers don't lie, he is the epitome of a defensive liability. Simmonds and Schenn, both considered to be strong defensively, had seemingly identical numbers to Briere in regards to zone starts and finishes, quality of competition and Corsi. To put it simply, they were all not very good.

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06-16-2012, 07:47 PM
  #353
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyflyerfan1992 View Post
Carle and Coburn had similar zone starts this year, but Coburn faced tougher competition with only Timonen facing tougher opponents.

Carle had a better Corsi rating and was, again, only behind Timonen in Corsi rating among defensemen.

It's definitely hard to say who is a better all-around defensemen, but it is easy to say that Coburn is more trusted and relied on defensively while Carle is probably more valuable to the Flyers offensive game. The fact that Carle isn't sheltered while maintaining a high Corsi rating is a very good sign moving forward as he wasn't "carried by Pronger" this year and was still a solid defensemen. Coburn is our #2 on defense, while Carle is our #2 on offense. Timonen appears to be #1 in both categories.

---

If this team gets some solid defensive forwards and guys like Couturier, Schenn and even Wellwood take the next step into being full-time two-way players, our 'defensive lapses' might disappear.

Briere needs to be sheltered, heavily. Numbers don't lie, he is the epitome of a defensive liability. Simmonds and Schenn, both considered to be strong defensively, had seemingly identical numbers to Briere in regards to zone starts and finishes, quality of competition and Corsi. To put it simply, they were all not very good.

This is a great post. The more I think about it the more I realized that defense isnt nesscissarily about the personnel of your 6 defenseman. Its about all 5 guys on the ice.

Lets be brutally honest here, Giroux and Briere may be the worst top two centerman in the league at defense ( as a tandem). They are both small, offensive players and that needs to be addressed. I hope that Courturier and Schenn can step in and become that responsible two way 2nd line centerman next year for us. But even then we still have issues. We need to round out the roster with more repsonble two way players and to be frank that means a large roster change. We just dont have the personnel to really compete successfully at both ends of the ice. Signing jagr is just going to compound the problem.

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Old
06-16-2012, 07:50 PM
  #354
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People actually think Carle>Coburn? What?

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06-16-2012, 07:53 PM
  #355
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Originally Posted by Jray42 View Post
People actually think Carle>Coburn? What?
It's HFboards.. So points matter most..

When Coburn first came here he had 36 points in 78 games.. But was asked to take on more of a shutdown role..


If i had a choice of Carle or Coburn, like Fish Invictus, i would take Coburn 52 days a week

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Old
06-16-2012, 08:20 PM
  #356
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This is a great post. The more I think about it the more I realized that defense isnt nesscissarily about the personnel of your 6 defenseman. Its about all 5 guys on the ice.

Lets be brutally honest here, Giroux and Briere may be the worst top two centerman in the league at defense ( as a tandem). They are both small, offensive players and that needs to be addressed. I hope that Courturier and Schenn can step in and become that responsible two way 2nd line centerman next year for us. But even then we still have issues. We need to round out the roster with more repsonble two way players and to be frank that means a large roster change. We just dont have the personnel to really compete successfully at both ends of the ice. Signing jagr is just going to compound the problem.
Thanks. We can complain about our defensemen all we want but I see the issues defensively revolving more around our team as a unit.

Giroux is really good. His defensive numbers as a #1 center are decent enough and his offensive numbers are obviously fantastic, however you can really see his value in relation to the numbers of his linemates. Jagr and Hartnell had great numbers and were definitely not liabilities this regular season regarding zone time & Corsi (even though Jagr was mostly starting in the offensive zone), and that says a lot about Giroux himself.

What we need is patience, which especially after watching Richards and Carter lift the Cup not a lot of us have around here.

---

When the Penguins won the Cup, Staal was turning 21 finishing his third full season. If Couturier can develop like Staal and Giroux can flourish as a #1 center, in addition to our other holes being fixed, we have a good chance at a Cup. The Penguins built around Staal, Malkin, Crosby and Fleury. They had a defense of Gill, Orpik, Gonchar, Letang in his 2nd full season, Eaton and Scuderi. Very sound defensively with two very good puck movers. We need to build our defense like this if we are going to continue to play a run-n-gun style. Grossmann, Coburn and Carle are a good start but lots of work needs to be done. Since Briere is our 'Malkin' we obviously need better wingers for him. Voracek was probably our 2nd best winger this past year, so perhaps pairing Voracek and Briere will be beneficial especially if we can get a defensively reliable LW (Hartnell?).

To be honest, I'm not going into next season expecting the Stanley Cup like I have in years past. This needs to be a growing year in addition challenging for the cup. 40 years without a cup is when I will start to lose it... so I still have 3 years of optimism.

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06-16-2012, 08:24 PM
  #357
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Did anyone see that *************** guy tweeted we are close to acquiring Nash from Columbus? Just putting it out there. Also said couts wouldn't be part of deal. Can't link it because I'm at work and on the cellie yo!

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06-16-2012, 08:26 PM
  #358
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
Did anyone see that *************** guy tweeted we are close to acquiring Nash from Columbus? Just putting it out there. Also said couts wouldn't be part of deal. Can't link it because I'm at work and on the cellie yo!
*************** isn't a legitimate source..

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06-16-2012, 08:33 PM
  #359
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*************** isn't a legitimate source..
The Nash rumors are getting out of hand. Welcome to Twitter, where anyone can have their "sources".

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06-16-2012, 08:33 PM
  #360
Krishna
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Edit wrong thread

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Old
06-16-2012, 08:36 PM
  #361
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*************** isn't a legitimate source..
Haha i know but he did actually call a few trades at the deadline that noboy else had

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06-16-2012, 08:41 PM
  #362
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Haha i know but he did actually call a few trades at the deadline that noboy else had
I hear the same defense for Eklund and incarcerated bob

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Old
06-16-2012, 08:41 PM
  #363
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*************** isn't a legitimate source..
Well if we do trade for nash hopefully the "no couturier" thing is true.

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06-16-2012, 08:41 PM
  #364
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Flyers close to acquiring Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and team location so that Suter will sign with the Flyers.

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06-16-2012, 08:47 PM
  #365
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Did you guys hear, we are super close to getting Datyuk and Zetterburg!

But the Flyers are relocating to Kansas City

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Old
06-16-2012, 08:51 PM
  #366
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Did you guys hear, we are super close to getting Datyuk and Zetterburg!

But the Flyers are relocating to Kansas City
Bettman to rig the draft lottery

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Old
06-16-2012, 08:54 PM
  #367
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Originally Posted by Hollywood Couturier View Post
@Hollywood_Couturier
start the twitter account so we can link the tweets all throught HF. You will be a twitter sensation overnight

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Old
06-16-2012, 08:55 PM
  #368
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Alright alright people I get it!! Just was bored at work and saw it on twitter. Was just trying to give myself a little excitement here at work. Bunch of buzz kills you all are haha

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Old
06-16-2012, 09:00 PM
  #369
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
Alright alright people I get it!! Just was bored at work and saw it on twitter. Was just trying to give myself a little excitement here at work. Bunch of buzz kills you all are haha
We're not even vindictive

Truthfully, most of us hate the endless rumors that get a lemming-like following. While any decision can be debated (and often reviled), most of us just care about the team

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Old
06-16-2012, 09:01 PM
  #370
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Hearing rumors that Flyersfan9180 is quite the flyers board cancer. Trade to Columbus is on the horizon

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Old
06-16-2012, 09:03 PM
  #371
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^ Fake twitter account. I have not heard any such things.

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Old
06-16-2012, 09:04 PM
  #372
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Meh, he is what he is, says so, and doesn't shy away from it. He's a rumor guy. Just like Eklund. Just like Inc Bob. It's fun/exhausting to drool over what they say, but it should always be taken with a grain of salt. Just because he misses out on 29/30 rumors doesn't mean his word absolutely shouldn't be considered.


Quote:
Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
Your entitled to that opinion.



That's a statement with no substance. I'd be glad to listen to your factual response of why it is false.

You've got to be kidding me with Carle over Coburn. Did you watch Coburn at the end of the season/playoffs?

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Old
06-16-2012, 09:59 PM
  #373
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if simmonds and hartnell both put up the same number this year how much do u think they are going to want at the end of the year? i think we may have to let hartnell walk

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06-16-2012, 10:13 PM
  #374
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You've got to be kidding me with Carle over Coburn. Did you watch Coburn at the end of the season/playoffs?
Yeah I did not see this coming before the season but now that Timonen is limited by age/injuries I think Coburn is probably our best d-man.

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Old
06-16-2012, 10:35 PM
  #375
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Yeah I did not see this coming before the season but now that Timonen is limited by age/injuries I think Coburn is probably our best d-man.
He was in the playoffs, and I honestly didn't think it was close.

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