HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Notices

The Official Offseason Thread (Part V) - "ZP don't take kindly to us"

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-16-2012, 11:26 PM
  #951
SupersonicMonkey*
DROP THE PUCK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 15,193
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by New York RKY View Post
Its not lateral when one scorer is going to be better than the other one, then it's called and upgrade on our end.
You THINK Kane will be so much better. That doesn't make it reality.

SupersonicMonkey* is offline  
Old
06-16-2012, 11:26 PM
  #952
NewYorkRangers89*
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 491
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by New York RKY View Post
57 points as a punk little kid. He hasn't even phyiscally matured yet and he's already an insane power forward. He's so incredibly strong on his skates ansd his legs are built like tree trunks.

When he's physically matured I'm scared for whoever goes against him. 80 points is an easy goal for him to obtain outside of him getting a serious injury. this was only his 2nd year in the NHl as well.


He might be a good power forward but i doubt he has the skills to put up 80 points since i think he isn't gonna put up alot of assists. He might score 30-35 goals a year MAYBE but i think he will put up 20-25 assists also.

NewYorkRangers89* is offline  
Old
06-16-2012, 11:28 PM
  #953
Fitzy
All Is Well
 
Fitzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 19,843
vCash: 50
I think if you ask fanbases around the league most to all of them would take Evander Kane over DZ in a which-would-you-rather contest.

Problem is, we need DZ. We have a heavy lack of offensive defensemen, and so a player of DZ's skills are of more value to us at this juncture than Evanders.

Fitzy is offline  
Old
06-16-2012, 11:28 PM
  #954
BrooklynRangersFan
Change is good.
 
BrooklynRangersFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brooklyn of course
Country: United States
Posts: 10,061
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by New York RKY View Post
So what? Try to look at it from the other side. Kane is basically the same age and has already scored 30 goals. This kid hasn't even developed phyiscally yet and not only is he an amazing power forward but he's still growing.

HE WILL BE AN 80 POINT PLAYER IN THIS LEAGUE. I'm in no way short changing MDZ, he's going to be an incredible player, but there is some serious underrating of Kane in this thread. I don't think tou guys have any idea how good he's going to be.
Okay, yeah - I agree that Kane is good and has the potential to be great. That's why we all want him after all.

But why doesn't MDZ get the same benefit of the doubt? Why don't I see posts that look like the following?

"MDZ's only 21 years old and he was our 5th leading scorer in both the regular season and the playoffs!!! And he's done it 2 out of 3 years - not just the one most recent. He's going to be a 60 point scorer in this league AS A DEFENSEMAN. You want him, I want Kane ++!!!"

IMO MDZ is being sold short on these boards simply because the fanbase is willing to move him (in the right deal). The ONLY reason Rangers fans are willing to move him is that we already have McD and Staal on the big club and Erixon breathing down his neck. If MDZ was playing for a bottom 3rd team in the league, he'd be on the first pair - and their fanbase would be demanding a king's ransom for him. (Kinda like they want for Kane.)

Don't get me wrong, I think Kane is fantastic and would be willing to give up significant value to get him. The point is that MDZ is significant value - especially if you're willing to add a little more (which I am to win a bidding war). But the idea, that he'd need to be about 25-33% of the value going the other way is ludicrous.




(Now, if the issue is that WPG doesn't want a defenseman as the centerpiece of the package, that's fair - but doesn't make MDZ any less fair value.)

BrooklynRangersFan is offline  
Old
06-16-2012, 11:30 PM
  #955
New York RKY
Moderator
Let's Go Rangers!
 
New York RKY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Dirty Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 12,018
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatCrazyRangerFan View Post
How can you say that if you haven't seen Kreider play more than 20 or so games either?
But that's munpoint, Kreider hasn't proven a damn thing yet. Could he be a great player? Yes, but to say its a lateral move to someone who's already scored 30 goals and is younger than Krieder is laughable.

At this point we pray Kreider will turn into an 80 point forward, it's a garuantee with Kane.

__________________
New York RKY is offline  
Old
06-16-2012, 11:30 PM
  #956
NewYorkRangers89*
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 491
vCash: 500
DZ doesn't get no credit because people suddenly fell in love with Kane. As soon as his name popped up they searched up stats and seen that he scored 30 goals once and quickly labeled him as a 30 goal scorer. DZ is just a crappy dman who isn't aloud to improve or go through growing pains. according to some on this board.

NewYorkRangers89* is offline  
Old
06-16-2012, 11:31 PM
  #957
NewYorkRangers89*
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 491
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by New York RKY View Post
But that's munpoint, Kreider hasn't proven a damn thing yet. Could he be a great player? Yes, but to say its a lateral move to someone who's already scored 30 goals and is younger than Krieder is laughable.

At this point we pray Kreider will turn into an 80 point forward, it's a garuantee with Kane.


Kane is guaranteed for 80 points? Wow tell the GM in Winnipeg that before he trades an 80 point guy!

NewYorkRangers89* is offline  
Old
06-16-2012, 11:33 PM
  #958
Barbara Underhill
Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuke
 
Barbara Underhill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Montana
Country: United States
Posts: 13,111
vCash: 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewYorkRangers89 View Post
DZ doesn't get no credit because people suddenly fell in love with Kane. As soon as his name popped up they searched up stats and seen that he scored 30 goals once and quickly labeled him as a 30 goal scorer. DZ is just a crappy dman who isn't aloud to improve or go through growing pains. according to some on this board.
Pretty sure most of us knew who Evander Kane was and what type of player he was before today. Secondly MDZ is a good young offensive defenseman whom we need, just because his name is being thrown around doesn't mean "he don't get no credit".

Barbara Underhill is offline  
Old
06-16-2012, 11:34 PM
  #959
New York RKY
Moderator
Let's Go Rangers!
 
New York RKY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Dirty Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 12,018
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Okay, yeah - I agree that Kane is good and has the potential to be great. That's why we all want him after all.

But why doesn't MDZ get the same benefit of the doubt? Why don't I see posts that look like the following?

"MDZ's only 21 years old and he was our 5th leading scorer in both the regular season and the playoffs!!! And he's done it 2 out of 3 years - not just the one most recent. He's going to be a 60 point scorer in this league AS A DEFENSEMAN. You want him, I want Kane ++!!!"

IMO MDZ is being sold short on these boards simply because the fanbase is willing to move him (in the right deal). The ONLY reason Rangers fans are willing to move him is that we already have McD and Staal on the big club and Erixon breathing down his neck. If MDZ was playing for a bottom 3rd team in the league, he'd be on the first pair - and their fanbase would be demanding a king's ransom for him. (Kinda like they want for Kane.)



Don't get me wrong, I think Kane is fantastic and would be willing to give up significant value to get him. The point is that MDZ is significant value - especially if you're willing to add a little more (which I am to win a bidding war). But the idea, that he'd need to be about 25-33% of the value going the other way is ludicrous.




(Now, if the issue is that WPG doesn't want a defenseman as the centerpiece of the package, that's fair - but doesn't make MDZ any less fair value.)
First of all I said that MDZ is a great player and is going to get better.

Secondly, I don't want to trade MDZ.

Thirdly I said that package wasn't enough because at this point I still don't think WPG moves him unless for an overpayment.

New York RKY is offline  
Old
06-16-2012, 11:34 PM
  #960
Silence Of The Plams
All these feels
 
Silence Of The Plams's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Lancaster, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 16,832
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by New York RKY View Post
But that's munpoint, Kreider hasn't proven a damn thing yet. Could he be a great player? Yes, but to say its a lateral move to someone who's already scored 30 goals and is younger than Krieder is laughable.

At this point we pray Kreider will turn into an 80 point forward, it's a garuantee with Kane.
But it's not. If he hasn't done it yet it's not.

Silence Of The Plams is offline  
Old
06-16-2012, 11:35 PM
  #961
Machinehead
Brauch und Stolz
 
Machinehead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New York New York
Country: Germany
Posts: 33,105
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewYorkRangers89 View Post
Kane is guaranteed for 80 points? Wow tell the GM in Winnipeg that before he trades an 80 point guy!
If Kane doesn't have multiple 80 point seasons I'll eat my shoes.

Machinehead is offline  
Old
06-16-2012, 11:36 PM
  #962
NewYorkRangers89*
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 491
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
If Kane doesn't have multiple 80 point seasons I'll eat my shoes.


If he has multiple 80 point seasons i'll run onto the MSG ice during intermission naked.

NewYorkRangers89* is offline  
Old
06-16-2012, 11:36 PM
  #963
Silence Of The Plams
All these feels
 
Silence Of The Plams's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Lancaster, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 16,832
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
If Kane doesn't have multiple 80 point seasons I'll eat my shoes.
I'll hold you to this 10 to 15 years from now

Silence Of The Plams is offline  
Old
06-16-2012, 11:37 PM
  #964
New York RKY
Moderator
Let's Go Rangers!
 
New York RKY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Dirty Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 12,018
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
You THINK Kane will be so much better. That doesn't make it reality.
Up to this point he's already proven he's better because he's actually done it in the NHl for a full season.

Until Kreider pits up numbers anywhere close to Kane its an upgrade for us.

New York RKY is offline  
Old
06-16-2012, 11:37 PM
  #965
BlueShirts88
Section 208 Row 15
 
BlueShirts88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Long Island, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 10,333
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to BlueShirts88
Im all for trading for Evander Kane. He's a great young player and one I would be willing to give up some assets for...who, I'm not sure yet. But I would definitely rather target Kane over Nash.

__________________
"Matteau! Matteau! Matteau!"~H. Rose
BlueShirts88 is offline  
Old
06-16-2012, 11:39 PM
  #966
New York RKY
Moderator
Let's Go Rangers!
 
New York RKY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Dirty Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 12,018
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewYorkRangers89 View Post
He might be a good power forward but i doubt he has the skills to put up 80 points since i think he isn't gonna put up alot of assists. He might score 30-35 goals a year MAYBE but i think he will put up 20-25 assists also.
Ok, this verifies that you've never seen him play.

You're honestly telling me you don't think a 20 year old can add 20 more points to a season total when he's fully developed? athat's asinine.

New York RKY is offline  
Old
06-16-2012, 11:39 PM
  #967
BrooklynRangersFan
Change is good.
 
BrooklynRangersFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brooklyn of course
Country: United States
Posts: 10,061
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by New York RKY View Post
But that's munpoint, Kreider hasn't proven a damn thing yet. Could he be a great player? Yes, but to say its a lateral move to someone who's already scored 30 goals and is younger than Krieder is laughable.

At this point we pray Kreider will turn into an 80 point forward, it's a garuantee with Kane.
Look, I think that he has the potential to be an 80 point guy - it's why I want him. But, I wish you would stop stating it as if it was a mortal lock. It is NOT a guarantee. Hell, Alex Ovechkin was a LONG ways away from 80 points last year.

You may have the utmost confidence that he'll reach it, but you can no more say that Kane will be an 80 point scorer than you can Kreider will.

BrooklynRangersFan is offline  
Old
06-16-2012, 11:40 PM
  #968
New York RKY
Moderator
Let's Go Rangers!
 
New York RKY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Dirty Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 12,018
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
If Kane doesn't have multiple 80 point seasons I'll eat my shoes.
Add me to this list.

If Kreider ever has 2 80 point seasons I will cry teatrs of joy.

New York RKY is offline  
Old
06-16-2012, 11:40 PM
  #969
Silence Of The Plams
All these feels
 
Silence Of The Plams's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Lancaster, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 16,832
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by New York RKY View Post
Up to this point he's already proven he's better because he's actually done it in the NHl for a full season.

Until Kreider pits up numbers anywhere close to Kane its an upgrade for us.
Well then whine to CK cause he wanted to stay in college and make sure he has an education. Why would you trade one of our #1 young prospects/players? Because you haven't seen a rookie in 20 Playoff games score in excess of 50 points?

Silence Of The Plams is offline  
Old
06-16-2012, 11:41 PM
  #970
Machinehead
Brauch und Stolz
 
Machinehead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New York New York
Country: Germany
Posts: 33,105
vCash: 500
Alot of people don't realize how skilled Kane is. He's not some monkey that stands in front of the net while 3 guys hang on him. He CAN do that, but he's also a great dangler with a lethal shot.

Machinehead is offline  
Old
06-16-2012, 11:42 PM
  #971
New York RKY
Moderator
Let's Go Rangers!
 
New York RKY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Dirty Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 12,018
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Look, I think that he has the potential to be an 80 point guy - it's why I want him. But, I wish you would stop stating it as if it was a mortal lock. It is NOT a guarantee. Hell, Alex Ovechkin was a LONG ways away from 80 points last year.

You may have the utmost confidence that he'll reach it, but you can no more say that Kane will be an 80 point scorer than you can Kreider will.
No because there are always aggravating and mitigating circumstances that come up, but at this point which player would you say is a safer bet to get 80 points?

It's a safer bet to say Kane will when Kreider hasn't done anything yet, that's why saying it's a lateral move at this juncture is utterly laughable.

New York RKY is offline  
Old
06-16-2012, 11:44 PM
  #972
Lundsanity30
Registered User
 
Lundsanity30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 9,868
vCash: 500
Can we quit with the Kane bickering until someone other than a teammate who heard Kane say he wants out confirms it? U

Lundsanity30 is offline  
Old
06-16-2012, 11:45 PM
  #973
New York RKY
Moderator
Let's Go Rangers!
 
New York RKY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Dirty Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 12,018
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatCrazyRangerFan View Post
Well then whine to CK cause he wanted to stay in college and make sure he has an education. Why would you trade one of our #1 young prospects/players? Because you haven't seen a rookie in 20 Playoff games score in excess of 50 points?
I'm not advocating trading Kreider. What I said was of if I had to choose between Kreider and Kane I would choose Kane every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

I want to keep Kreider at all costs, as well as Del Zotto, I'm just saying a lot of people on here have no idea how good Kane is.

New York RKY is offline  
Old
06-16-2012, 11:45 PM
  #974
BrooklynRangersFan
Change is good.
 
BrooklynRangersFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brooklyn of course
Country: United States
Posts: 10,061
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by New York RKY View Post
First of all I said that MDZ is a great player and is going to get better.

Secondly, I don't want to trade MDZ.

Thirdly I said that package wasn't enough because at this point I still don't think WPG moves him unless for an overpayment.
Fair enough on points 1 and 2.

On point 3, I think anything in addition to MDZ is overpayment. I'd be willing to throw in our first or our last first, Miller - and would state that I'm paying above "objective" fair value to win a bidding war in so doing. But, the "MDZ + Dubi + Miller + McI + picks" offers I'm seeing are INSANE. (The funny thing is WPG posters on the main boards sneer at them!)

BrooklynRangersFan is offline  
Old
06-16-2012, 11:45 PM
  #975
Silence Of The Plams
All these feels
 
Silence Of The Plams's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Lancaster, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 16,832
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by New York RKY View Post
No because there are always aggravating and mitigating circumstances that come up, but at this point which player would you say is a safer bet to get 80 points?

It's a safer bet to say Kane will when Kreider hasn't done anything yet, that's why saying it's a lateral move at this juncture is utterly laughable.
This is... really... flawed. Kane hasn't done it yet either! You don't give CK a fair chance to do anything by this!

Silence Of The Plams is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:13 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.