Why change the lines of a team that just steamrolled through the playoffs? They were up 3-0 in every single series, no team this year had a chance in hell against them. They were not only good offensively, but even better defensively. Size, skill, and hitting on each line. It's seriously a mess for other coaches to try and match up against.
There's always room for improvement. Even with the exact same roster, it's highly unlikely the Kings will repeat next year statistically speaking.
Obviously I don't think Lombardi needs to do much with the roster but some turnover is necessary to avoid complacency and inject more enthusiasm. Judging by the roster now I'd think the most turnover would be forwards. The organizational strength is defense, there are probably some young guys getting close to NHL ready. On forward definitely not. Just sign Parise and we will be even better
There's always room for improvement. Even with the exact same roster, it's highly unlikely the Kings will repeat next year statistically speaking.
Improvement on paper doesn't always mean results, just look at how we started the season.
I think, to a certain degree, the camaraderie and morale (and affordability) of the current roster is something that might be hard to improve upon by bringing in new faces, even if they are statistically superior.
Carter and Richards might be best friends, they might have played together for a long time. But that doesnt mean they are good fits for each other or that they have good on ice chemistry. I dont believe they ever played on the same line in Philly. I'm sure there is a reason for that.
The perception is that they would be a great fit together but I didnt see it. If nothing else was changed I would be fine with it, but I am really hoping we get to see them split up.
I think Lokti was put in a terrible situation under Terry Murray and with the linemates he had. If he had a chance to center better offensive talent I think we would have a different perception of him
Are you people crazy?! Trade Clifford?! Send Clifford to the AHL?! What are you people smoking?
He got injured in the playoffs & lost his spot to somebody who was healthy (Richardson). And then Sutter didn't want to change things up for reasons of chemistry.
In the long run, Clifford will be a much, much better player than Richardson. Clifford played almost the entire season. Meanwhile, Richardson watched half the season from the press box.
WTF are you people thinking?
Christ, sometimes I'll be reading a thread & wonder what board I'm really looking at!
First off, weren't you the guy a couple of days ago who said Quick would sign for $4 million a year, and you are asking what others are smoking?
Clifford played more games than Richie, that is true but it doesn't mean much. Ethan Moreau played more games than Dwight King. Richie and Clifford are totally different types of players, Clifford's competition for a roster spot is probably Nolan, and I think it's fair to say Nolan was the stronger player this season and should have the advantage going into camp.
I like Clifford but he regressed this season, and many people, myself included thought he should have spent some time in Manchester. I don't think letting him spend the early part of the year establishing himself in Manchester rather than struggling in LA is such a bad thing. He is still only going to be 21 this season.
Ideally, I think our fourth line next year will look like this:
Clifford-Cliche-Nolan
I like Fraser, but overall I think Cliche is a better player. He was Manch's captain last year and is good on the PK. He's got a bit of a scoring touch, too.
Ideally, I think our fourth line next year will look like this:
Clifford-Cliche-Nolan
I like Fraser, but overall I think Cliche is a better player. He was Manch's captain last year and is good on the PK. He's got a bit of a scoring touch, too.
Cliche was not even Manchesters best Center. That was Vey.
Cliche is not an NHL player, He is 25 with not even 10 NHL games under his belt.
Colin is 27 with 280+ NHL games, also TWO Cups rings on his fingers. Cliche is not even in the same realm as Colin. People are so quick to disregard what Colin has done for the Kings.
Did we forget the Fourth line sucked until Colin started to Center it ? You can't just plug anyone in on bottom six lines. I thought we as Kings fans would have learned that by now.
Last edited by damacles1156: 06-17-2012 at 03:24 AM.
I mean this with love, but I don't give a damn about having no room for the rookies or what not. You need to ice the best team possible, and guys like Lotki are just going to either have to wait or get traded.
With Gagne back, It will allow a guy who is very valuable in trevor lewis to even drop down to the 4th line, allowing him to still excel at the penalty kill which he is brilliant at.
Fraser and Nolan are very solid 4th line players, along with lewis should be able to pressure like mad.
I really like the team set up as is...Obviously if you can get a guy like Parise you go for it, but I don't see a reason not to keep the team together.
I mean this with love, but I don't give a damn about having no room for the rookies or what not. You need to ice the best team possible, and guys like Lotki are just going to either have to wait or get traded.
With Gagne back, It will allow a guy who is very valuable in trevor lewis to even drop down to the 4th line, allowing him to still excel at the penalty kill which he is brilliant at.
Fraser and Nolan are very solid 4th line players, along with lewis should be able to pressure like mad.
I really like the team set up as is...Obviously if you can get a guy like Parise you go for it, but I don't see a reason not to keep the team together.
I agree,
For Decades we Kings fans have wanted this exact scenario.
The rookies have to EARN their roster spots, they are given nothing.
This is why the Redwings have been good for 15 years now. The roster spots are earned.
Look how long Slava had to wait, but you can't sit here and say he didn't earn it. I have a huge amount of respect for Slava. I am a huge LOKI homer, but that kid has been lackluster. He is not even on the same planet as Stoll. Stoll may not be a scoring powerhouse, but he is a perfect third line center.
The Kings are past promoting upside, now it switches to who the best player Manchester has to offer. It doesn't end their, then that Manchester player has to beat an NHL veteran.
People will point to King and Nolan, but those guys DID outplay Veterans....Had they not, they would have been sent right back to Manchester.
Last edited by damacles1156: 06-17-2012 at 05:26 AM.
Lets not forget Stoll is 30 and scored at basically the same rate as Lokti did last year. Even though Lokti played mostly with Richardson and Lewis as his linemates.
As bad as Lokti was during the regular season Stoll was worse. And lokti got sent down right befoer the kings came around as a team.
Kings are in a position to build a dynasty, lets not let the emotion of a stanley cup victory allow us to overspend on guys like Stoll, who are older then our core when we have a guy like Loktionov (who might Already be better) just entering his prime. There are plenty of Stolls in the world, lets spend our money on resigning key players (Brown, Quick, etc...) or adding Key ones (Parise, Suter). We dont need to make Financial committments to 21 point 30 year olds, anymore. Not when we have cheap youth who are likeley better.
Let Stoll go, put Lokti in a position to succeed, if he doesnt we are fortunate to have a guy like Lewis who is more then capable of 4th line center duty. If he does succeed then we have a cheap young asset, that we can either make a part of our team long term or trade before he gets expensive.
In Lokti last 6 regular season games he scored 3 goals, or half the amount Stoll scored in 78 games last year. And during our stellar postseason run Stolls production somehow even dropped from his regular season scoring rate. 5 points in 20 games.
Stoll is quickly closing in on "being the perfect 4th line center"
Last edited by Rusty Batch: 06-17-2012 at 04:15 AM.
Lets not forget Stoll is 30 and scored at basically the same rate as Lokti did last year. Even though Lokti played mostly with Richardson and Lewis as his linemates.
As bad as Lokti was during the regular season Stoll was worse. And lokti got sent down right befoer the kings came around as a team.
Kings are in a position to build a dynasty, lets not let the emotion of a stanley cup playoffs allow us to overspend on guys like Stoll, who are older then our core when we have a guy like Loktionov (who might Already be better) just entering his prime. There are plenty of Stolls in the world, lets spend our money on resigning key players (Brown, Quick, etc...) or adding Key ones (Parise, Suter). We dont need to make Financial committments to 21 point 30 year olds, anymore. Not when we have cheap youth who are likeley better.
Let Stoll go, put Lokti in a position to succeed, if he doesnt we are fortunate to have a guy like Lewis who is more then capable of 4th line center duty. If he does succeed then we have a cheap young asset, that we can either make a part of our team long term or trade before he gets expensive.
Sorry but I just disagree, Loki has never been as good as Stoll. You will not find a bigger Loki Homer on this board than me.
The Kid is just not ready. He doesn't do anything well that Stoll brings in spades.
As much as people are making about don't get caught up in the playoff hype (most important part of the season). The Reg season is just as useless if you ask me, Stoll was a huge reason the Kings won the cup. Lets also not forget the Kings were making Stoll play wing more than half the season (he has never been a good winger).
No one knows what salary Stoll will get, but when has Lombardi screwed up the cap ?
I have faith Lombardi will find a salary Stoll and the Kings can both agree on. Also lets add Penner, where are you going to find a guy with Penner's skill set+size+(experience) for say 2.5 to 3m ?
If they are both willing to sign fair contracts, there is no reason to not bring them back.
Last edited by damacles1156: 06-17-2012 at 04:24 AM.
Ideally, I think our fourth line next year will look like this:
Clifford-Cliche-Nolan
I like Fraser, but overall I think Cliche is a better player. He was Manch's captain last year and is good on the PK. He's got a bit of a scoring touch, too.
Usually when you're the captain of an AHL team it means you're more than likely a career AHL'er. Nothing wrong with it, just not good enough for the big show, but a decent AHL'er and captain worthy down there.
Sorry but I just disagree, Loki has never been as good as Stoll. You will not find a bigger Loki Homer on this board than me.
The Kid is just not ready. He doesn't do anything well that Stoll brings in spades.
As much as people are making about don't get caught up in the playoff hype (most important part of the season). The Reg season is just as useless if you ask me, Stoll was a huge reason the Kings won the cup. Lets also not forget the Kings were making Stoll play wing more than half the season (he has never been a good winger).
No one knows what salary Stoll will get, but when has Lombardi screwed up the cap ?
I have faith Lombardi will find a salary Stoll and the Kings can both agree on. Also lets add Penner, where are you going to find a guy with Penner's skill set+size+(experience) for say 2.5 to 3m ?
Unless Stoll is playing 4th line I won't be happy with signing a player that brings nothing to the table offensiveley and leads our team in minor penalties. I don't care if we get him for free.
We have too many talented centers in this organization to give the 3rd spot to a guy that is on the downside of a career, when it is keeping us from playing very good players in their natural positions (one of Carter or Richards) or promising cheap youth in Loktionov.
I would love to see Lokti get to play under Sutters system , with wings like Gagne and King. Not so excited about watching Stoll handicap that same line.
If Stoll wants to center Cliffy and Nolan and kill penalties, then by all means...
But him running into people and winning an extra faceoff every 3 games does not make him more valuable then Lokti, to me anyways. Not like my opinion means wa whole lot
Unless Stoll is playing 4th line I won't be happy with signing a player that brings nothing to the table offensiveley and leads our team in minor penalties. I don't care if we get him for free.
We have too many talented centers in this organization to give the 3rd spot to a guy that is on the downside of a career, when it is keeping us from playing very good players in their natural positions (one of Carter or Richards) or promising cheap youth in Loktionov.
I would love to see Lokti get to play under Sutters system , with wings like Gagne and King. Not so excited about watching Stoll handicap that same line.
If Stoll wants to center Cliffy and Nolan and kill penalties, then by all means...
But him running into people and winning an extra faceoff every 3 games does not make him more valuable then Lokti, to me anyways. Not like my opinion means wa whole lot
Stoll was the best center on the ice a few games in the Cup finals. Pretty sure he led all Centers in faceoff Percentage(he also takes most of the teams draws).
That is a big deal to a puck possession team. Loki has never been over 50 % in the AHL or NHL for a career.
The kid is not ready. Loki does not kill penalty's, he is not physical. There is a reason Sutter never used him much....
Again we are coming back to just handing a Roster spot to a young guy. I thought Kings fans wanted to get rid of that aspect about the team. How about LOKI earn it and pry it from Stoll's cold dead hands.....
Stoll was the best center on the ice a few games in the Cup finals. Pretty sure he led all Centers in faceoff Percentage(he also takes most of the teams draws).
That is a big deal to a puck possession team. Loki has never been over 50 % in the AHL or NHL for a career.
The kid is not ready. Loki does not kill penalty's, he is not physical. There is a reason Sutter never used him much....
Again we are coming back to just handing a Roster spot to a young guy. I thought Kings fans wanted to get rid of that aspect about the team. How about LOKI earn it and pry it from Stoll's cold dead hands.....
Id rather hand the spot over to a young guy, then hand one over to an old guy.
Please explain to me how the last 100 games of Stolls Career warrant a 3rd line center roster spot?
And I never remember him being even remoteley close to the best center in any game... He had one good goal the rest of his postseason was largeley forgettable. A couple faceoffs won and the CBC broadcasters gushing over the Saskatchewan kids ability to tie a guy up on a faceoff even when he lost, or his grit, or whatever else those announcers love to gush over when its a old untalented canadian playing.
If the Kings lose in the first round Every Single Person on here would agree that Stoll should be gone but instead we win (having almost nothing to do with Stoll) and we are talking about all the reasons to resign him? or that he has earned his spot?
Please... his intangibles dont make up for his ridiculous penalties and awful production. I dont care how many guys in the locker room like him. If we cant sign a key contributor in a couple years because Jarret Stoll is making a couple mil I will be very dissapointed.
Id rather hand the spot over to a young guy, then hand one over to an old guy.
Please explain to me how the last 100 games of Stolls Career warrant a 3rd line center roster spot?
And I never remember him being even remoteley close to the best center in any game... He had one good goal the rest of his postseason was largeley forgettable. A couple faceoffs won and the CBC broadcasters gushing over the Saskatchewan kids ability to tie a guy up on a faceoff even when he lost, or his grit, or whatever else those announcers love to gush over when its a old untalented canadian playing.
If the Kings lose in the first round Every Single Person on here would agree that Stoll should be gone but instead we win (having almost nothing to do with Stoll) and we are talking about all the reasons to resign him? or that he has earned his spot?
Please... his intangibles dont make up for his ridiculous penalties and awful production. I dont care how many guys in the locker room like him. If we cant sign a key contributor in a couple years because Jarret Stoll is making a couple mil I will be very dissapointed.
Stoll will never a be a reason why the Kings can't sign someone. So that argument is not going to fly ever.
What exaclty are you some of guys thinking he is going to make ?
How is Stoll making 2.5 mill going to crush the Kings cap ? If the Kings sign Stoll and Penner both at 1 year, 2.5 mill THEY GAIN CAP SPACE>
Games Three, Four, and five Stoll was awesome. Kopitar and Richards were no were to be found in game Four and Five (why we lost).
I hope you guys are not thinking Parise, Cause that is a HUGE PIPE dream. The guy is not coming here.
You want to talk about handcuffing your Cap, Parise will do that in a NY minute. Stoll, Penner, Fraser ALL COMBINED will make less than Parise gets.
Last edited by damacles1156: 06-17-2012 at 04:49 AM.
There is a reason Sutter had Stoll taking important faceoff's , PKing, playing 15 to 17 mins in all situations; and LOKI was on the bench and in the AHL most of the Sutter tenure.
It's not because we are saving LOKI for next year.....
There are reasons why guys like Cliche are 25 and have one NHL game under their belt; and a guy like Stoll can suck an entire year(minus playoff's) and remain on the roster.
There are reasons stuff like that happens, unless you are going to sit here and tell me Lombardi,Hextall,Sutter are all idiots.
If some team wants to offer Stoll and Penner big money, fine see ya later. But 1-2 years at 2.5 to 3m for those guys is very good for the Kings.
Last edited by damacles1156: 06-17-2012 at 05:45 AM.
There's always room for improvement. Even with the exact same roster, it's highly unlikely the Kings will repeat next year statistically speaking.
This Kings roster really only played like what 40 games ?
Haven't even seen what the roster can do for a full season. Everyone is in correct spots finally. That didn't happen till March. Kings went what from march on 29-9-3 ?
At this moment I don't see Lokti doing very well in Sutter's forecheck system until he puts on more muscle. He wont be able to separate puck from the player as easily as Lewis, King or Stoll did, and thats the whole reason that line thrived in the playoffs.
I love Lokti, I see him as a poor man's Datsyuk but not until he gets stronger. He wont be able to win those board battles that make that 3rd like work.
Stoll also brings physicality to his game which you can't overlook. He hits a lot and hits hard, which is the identity this team is built on, being physical. When opponents defence are getting plastered by a big hitter on every line (Brown, Richards, Stoll, Nolan) it takes its toll
You can't just plug anyone in on bottom six lines.
This x1000000. Look no further than the start of this past season to prove that point.
The Kings bottom 6 was arguably the worst in the league, it had three guys who had no business being on NHL rosters in Moreau, Hunter and Westgarth and they dragged down some of the decent bottom line guys we had in Lewis and Stoll, the bottom lines only recovered when King and Nolan replaced Moreau and Hunter, Fraser got healthy and Sutter was brought in and knew how to use them. Having even one guy like Clune, Moreau, Westgarth etc. can destroy an entire line, especially with the way Sutter likes to roll all four lines.
As long as Darryl Sutter is coaching this team don't expect to plug the bottom lines with goons like Westgarth or Ivanans, side shows like Clune the Clown or washed up veteran slugs like Moreau.
Just think Ivanans, Clune and Westgarth actually played playoff games under TM. Amazing how far we have come.
Their has been a good bit of talk tying Nash to SJ, quite frankly, I hope they do it. It will cost them at least 2 of Clowe, Couture and Pavelski considering that they have no notable prospects.
As we know, 2 or 3 stars don't win a cup, it's all about depth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingsFan7824
I free agency, the Kings best and most realistic options might be Penner, Stoll, and Fraser.
I agree. I almost think Fraser might the most important of the 3, because the play of the 4th line was so invaluable to the team.
Last edited by KopitarFAN: 06-17-2012 at 12:37 PM.
