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The Official Offseason Thread (Part VI) - "Kane? Nash? Ryan?"

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06-17-2012, 09:59 AM
  #76
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Don't forfeit the farm...stay the course. Don't panic and give in during negotiations.

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06-17-2012, 10:02 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by FultonReed View Post
he scored in San Jose because of Joe Thornton. Joe Thornton has this thing where he likes to make guys look better than they actually are. example A: Jonathan Cheechoo. guy scores 56 goals one year and then falls off the face of the Earth.
Cheechoo was a very good player until his knees **** the bed. His downfall had nothing to do with lack of skill, but rather lack of legs.

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06-17-2012, 10:09 AM
  #78
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I could've sworn this was a strong draft. Last year was weak as ****. This year if you're drafting top 20, you're guaranteed a good pick. Now I know we are in the 28th spot, so our pick may not be a strong pick, but it is not a weak draft by any means.
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“It’s (bleeping) terrible,” said one Eastern Conference executive, speaking on the condition of anonymity. “This year’s draft has to be the worst draft in 12 years.”
Quote:
An Eastern scout suggested teams after No. 5 might be more than willing to either unload their selection to move out of the first round completely or slide if they believe the guy they want isn’t going to be selected.

“If you think there’s someone you’re comfortable with, you should go after him because, if you’re right, you’re going to look great. You should pay the extra price to go get the guy you want,” the scout said.

“There’s a lot of talk that some teams are willing to take two second-rounders instead of a first because if you’re going to screw up anyway, you may as well take two shots at it instead of having just one choice.”
http://www.torontosun.com/2012/06/16...akest-in-years

I heard a podcast with Sharks scouting director Tim Burke. He feels the 2011 draft was better than 2012.

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06-17-2012, 10:10 AM
  #79
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ehh he was really a 2nd or 3rd liner... he had Thornton during his 50+ goal season... same as Graves and his record... no tremendous skill, but pretty good.

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06-17-2012, 10:17 AM
  #80
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I couldn't agree more. Like I said earlier he flip flops more than a politician and he's only hurting himself in the process. "I'll just keep Nash." Ok bud do that, but then you have this awkward situation that lingers in the locker room of your basement dweller team.
Normally I'd just chalk it up to posturing, but Howson has already broken the code and outed his Captain. There's no reason to posture.

29 GM's know Howson is **** out of luck. You dont win trades like this. Gretzky in his prime fetched garbage the first time, and garbage the 2nd time. Messier was acquired for garbage. Kovalchuk was considered a rental and as of now he was acquired for garbage. Hossa was a rental acquired for garbage. Hell, even Brian Leetch was traded for garbage.

The way Columbus wins this is just trade the friggin guy away and start fresh. That's how they win -- they trade him away for whatever, but start over and get the PR nightmare and distractions out of the way. Take down the Nash billboards, box up the Nash jerseys and move the **** on.

Howson thinks this is going to be the Lindros trade that turned Quebec into a pseudo Dynasty. The difference is that Quebec actually drafted well before Lindros, while the BJ's suck ****.

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06-17-2012, 10:21 AM
  #81
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Normally I'd just chalk it up to posturing, but Howson has already broken the code and outed his Captain. There's no reason to posture.

29 GM's know Howson is **** out of luck. You dont win trades like this. Gretzky in his prime fetched garbage the first time, and garbage the 2nd time. Messier was acquired for garbage. Kovalchuk was considered a rental and as of now he was acquired for garbage. Hossa was a rental acquired for garbage. Hell, even Brian Leetch was traded for garbage.

The way Columbus wins this is just trade the friggin guy away and start fresh. That's how they win -- they trade him away for whatever, but start over and get the PR nightmare and distractions out of the way. Take down the Nash billboards, box up the Nash jerseys and move the **** on.

Howson thinks this is going to be the Lindros trade that turned Quebec into a pseudo Dynasty. The difference is that Quebec actually drafted well before Lindros, while the BJ's suck ****.
Exactly, it was posturing the first couple of times he did it. Now it's just him being clueless, get the best return you can and move on. Tell the fans that you got what you could and Nash wanted to leave and you didn't want him hindering the club in the future.

They won't get straight up garbage they'll get nice players but looking at the returns for Hossa, Kovalchuk, Heatley, and so on it's not what you would have expected they'd bring. What did Atl get for Hossa? Armstrong, Esposito and something else? Nash isn't a rental at the deadline but his contract does a number on his trade value.

All I can say is Columbus fans are going to be very disappointed in the return they get, they're following the same line of thinking as Howson about this whole thing.

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06-17-2012, 10:22 AM
  #82
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ehh he was really a 2nd or 3rd liner... he had Thornton during his 50+ goal season... same as Graves and his record... no tremendous skill, but pretty good.
I am not saying that he was a perrenial 50+ goal scorer but if he was healthy he was a 30-40 goal guy. Thornton hooked him up for his 56 goal season, but he was a good top line player. Not quite ppg, but 60-70 points was not out of the question. Unfortunately for him his knees blew apart and he was not able to keep his speed

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06-17-2012, 10:23 AM
  #83
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nash should just play like garbage for columbus and force a trade. i'd be pissed as hell if i was him and i didn't get moved this summer. it's clear he wants out... why hurt the team he's going to because columbus wants too much?

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06-17-2012, 10:25 AM
  #84
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nash should just play like garbage for columbus and force a trade. i'd be pissed as hell if i was him and i didn't get moved this summer. it's clear he wants out... why hurt the team he's going to because columbus wants too much?
He was pissed as hell at the deadline, he would have really enjoyed playing in the playoffs.

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06-17-2012, 10:29 AM
  #85
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He was pissed as hell at the deadline, he would have really enjoyed playing in the playoffs.
exactly. he doesn't have too many years left in him and the guy wants to go somewhere that can win a cup. i say he just bombs and contacts whoever will take his salary. maybe howson just doesn't want nash to go to a winning team because he wants out.

also don't wanna make a new post, but i just rememebered lungo is on like a 13 year 7m per contract w/ vancouver isn't he? why would anybody want to go to a team with a goalie that choked severely in the playoffs this year (albeit sneider did well) when they have a chance of playing in front of the king?

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06-17-2012, 10:34 AM
  #86
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Cheechoo was a very good player until his knees **** the bed. His downfall had nothing to do with lack of skill, but rather lack of legs.
is that what happened? i knew something had to be wrong with the guy, if not lack of skill. thanks for clearing that up

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06-17-2012, 10:37 AM
  #87
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DZ must be one of those players Torts was talking about on breakup day. He said the play of some players concerned him going forward. I hope the Rangers get "value" back if they do trade him. He does have very good value.
Highly doubt it was him. The dude's grandmother just died so give him slack. If someone close to you dies your head will not be in the right place.

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06-17-2012, 10:43 AM
  #88
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http://www.torontosun.com/2012/06/16...akest-in-years

I heard a podcast with Sharks scouting director Tim Burke. He feels the 2011 draft was better than 2012.
Oh well I guess it was just a while back when everyone was saying how deep this draft is. Now it's the opposite. I guess this is how the draft works lol.

I still feel this year's first round is much better than last year's, by a country mile.

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06-17-2012, 10:44 AM
  #89
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Oh well I guess it was just a while back when everyone was saying how deep this draft is. Now it's the opposite. I guess this is how the draft works lol.

I still feel this year's first round is much better than last year's, by a country mile.
First half of it maybe, I think last years draft had better talent later in the round.

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06-17-2012, 11:14 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by AJBergy86 View Post
Cheechoo was a very good player until his knees **** the bed. His downfall had nothing to do with lack of skill, but rather lack of legs.
Not to mention I don't recall Cheechoo having scored 50+, 100+ twice before ever playing with Thornton.

Heatley scored more WITHOUT Thornton, so not the best argument.

Yes, he was part of one of the best lines in hockey in Ottawa. But the guy has scored everywhere he's gone. He had one great year and one off year in SJ and they gave up and traded him to Minny for Havlat. How'd that work out for them? Havlat played like 30 games. Heatley scored 25 on a dismal Wild team. I think it's absurd to think he couldn't score 30+ in NY and probably more.

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06-17-2012, 11:24 AM
  #91
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Does Winnipeg really need DZ with the offense they already have from their blueline ? Maybe if they move Enstrom then they could use him . I certainly would want more for Kane than Stepan if I was running the Jets . Kane has some great skills and talent and has progressed every year on bad teams . i have also read that he likes to have a good time outside of the rink...but then again we also have heard all kinds of DZ stories as well . AA and DZ and our 1st's this year and next for Kane and Enstrom .

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06-17-2012, 11:28 AM
  #92
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Does Winnipeg really need DZ with the offense they already have from their blueline ? Maybe if they move Enstrom then they could use him . I certainly would want more for Kane than Stepan if I was running the Jets . Kane has some great skills and talent and has progressed every year on bad teams . i have also read that he likes to have a good time outside of the rink...but then again we also have heard all kinds of DZ stories as well . AA and DZ and our 1st's this year and next for Kane and Enstrom .
Comparing to the Goligoski deal, the value is there. Although going forward that may not always be the best comparison. And I think on reality, they'd want a lot more for Kane AND Enstrom.

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06-17-2012, 11:49 AM
  #93
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Does Winnipeg really need DZ with the offense they already have from their blueline ? Maybe if they move Enstrom then they could use him . I certainly would want more for Kane than Stepan if I was running the Jets . Kane has some great skills and talent and has progressed every year on bad teams . i have also read that he likes to have a good time outside of the rink...but then again we also have heard all kinds of DZ stories as well . AA and DZ and our 1st's this year and next for Kane and Enstrom .
Feel like WPG would want more. But I also think Sather can get it done. However I don't know much about Enstrom. Compared to MDZ, how is he?

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06-17-2012, 12:08 PM
  #94
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if kane doesn't want to sign there and is willing to go through the process of declining a QO then winnipeg doesn't have much choice in what they get back tbh. we(though with some competition) could rob them blind.

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06-17-2012, 12:49 PM
  #95
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Per ny post, kreider stepan mcdonagh all off table for Nash. Guys like mdz, arte, Hagelin could be in play
Trading Hags will be a very large mistake.

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06-17-2012, 12:58 PM
  #96
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Feel like WPG would want more. But I also think Sather can get it done. However I don't know much about Enstrom. Compared to MDZ, how is he?
Only a thousand times better offensively and about a hundred times better defensively.

60 point potential and is solid enough in his own zone.

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06-17-2012, 01:03 PM
  #97
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Trading Hags will be a very large mistake.
ahhhh man I really am against giving up what is needed to get Nash, just go out and find another option on the trade market

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06-17-2012, 01:03 PM
  #98
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exactly. he doesn't have too many years left in him and the guy wants to go somewhere that can win a cup. i say he just bombs and contacts whoever will take his salary. maybe howson just doesn't want nash to go to a winning team because he wants out.

also don't wanna make a new post, but i just rememebered lungo is on like a 13 year 7m per contract w/ vancouver isn't he? why would anybody want to go to a team with a goalie that choked severely in the playoffs this year (albeit sneider did well) when they have a chance of playing in front of the king?
After all those years in Columbus, I'm sure Nash wants to go to a contender but he's still only 27. He's not on borrowed ti e yet. As for Vancouver, still a more attractive destination for a player looking for a Cup. Still one of the most talented teams in the league. To argue otherwise is just silly.

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06-17-2012, 01:07 PM
  #99
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Not to mention I don't recall Cheechoo having scored 50+, 100+ twice before ever playing with Thornton.

Heatley scored more WITHOUT Thornton, so not the best argument.

Yes, he was part of one of the best lines in hockey in Ottawa. But the guy has scored everywhere he's gone. He had one great year and one off year in SJ and they gave up and traded him to Minny for Havlat. How'd that work out for them? Havlat played like 30 games. Heatley scored 25 on a dismal Wild team. I think it's absurd to think he couldn't score 30+ in NY and probably more.
Agreed.

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06-17-2012, 01:07 PM
  #100
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Del Zotto, Dubinsky, Miller, 1st, 2nd for Kane, Enstrom
4th for Radulov

Kane Richards Gaborik
Kreider Stepan Callahan
Hagelin Anisimov Radulov
Rupp Boyle Prust
Mitchell

Has Enstrom played the right side before?

Staal Enstrom
McDonagh Girardi
Erixon McIlrath / Sauer / Stralman / Schultz

or

Staal Girardi
McDonagh Schultz / Sauer / Stralman
Enstrom Erixon / McIlrath

Lundqvist
Biron

Very intriguing.

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