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CBJ-PHI (Rick Nash rumors and proposed deals; update: traded to NYR, July 23)

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Old
06-17-2012, 12:16 AM
  #76
sobrien
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JvR
Mez
Bob

for

Nash

-----
Read
Gus
3rd

for

J-Bo

-No picks involved
-No Jagr
-Shelley disappears
-4C available to Cousins, or sign someone else. Dominic Moore? Konopka? We'd have a shutdown/bruiser 4th line (LA/NJ anyone?) and a skilled, shutdown 3rd line...oh and assloads of skill and cap space (for Flyers standards).

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Rick Nash ($7.800m)
Jakub Voracek ($3.500m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Danny Briere ($6.500m)
Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m)
Eric Wellwood ($0.580m) / Zenon Konopka ($0.750m) / Tom Sestito ($0.750m)
Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Braydon Coburn ($4.500m) / Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m)
Jay Bouwmeester ($6.680m) / Matt Carle ($4.250m)
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Marc-Andre Bourdon ($1.000m)
Andreas Lilja ($0.738m) /
GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.667m)
Chris Mason ($1.500m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $70,526,944; BONUSES: $2,705,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $2,478,056

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Old
06-17-2012, 12:34 AM
  #77
GKJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post
Rick Nash's numbers can improve without Rick Nash improving. If he leaves Columbus, they likely will.

Believe it or not, goals and assists in hockey are partially a reflection of team-work.
You're paying him $7.8M to do it. Just want to make sure you're ok with the Flyers having to dump Schenn or Couturier in a few years when we won't be able to play them.


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Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
Multiple people, myself included, have been debunking this crap about Nash declining, and his career point totals, and his cap for over a week. It's a shallow argument to just stare at his numbers and not think why he may not be scoring...

To put it simply; Scott Hartnell (Power forward) in his age 29-30 season --- career high 67 points, playing next to Giroux. Imagine Nash there instead.
Hartnell had a huge year in part because of an exaggerated shooting percentage. He set a career high (15.9 with his career average at 11.3). He'll be back down to 23-25 next year. Simmonds, similarly.

On the other side, Nash was low. But for his number, he'd have to produce at a rate to make up for the loss of possibly two other players. That's unlikely to happen.

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06-17-2012, 12:44 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
You're paying him $7.8M to do it. Just want to make sure you're ok with the Flyers having to dump Schenn or Couturier in a few years when we won't be able to play them.
Are you thinking these out before you post (sorry if that comes off as insulting, it's not intended)? The cap is rising annually as the league grows and the new TV contract comes into effect. By the time Giroux, Couturier, Schenn, and Read are up for FA, Timonen and Meszaros will be off the books, Hartnell may be as well (or may take a cut). We should have very little problem with re-signing any of those players with the freed up space/increasing space.


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Hartnell had a huge year in part because of an exaggerated shooting percentage. He set a career high (15.9 with his career average at 11.3). He'll be back down to 23-25 next year. Simmonds, similarly.

On the other side, Nash was low. But for his number, he'd have to produce at a rate to make up for the loss of possibly two other players. That's unlikely to happen.
Don't you think playing with Giroux exaggerated his shooting percentage? Or did it just happen...Simmonds, Talbot, and Read all were thrust into an uptempo offensive system and saw a significant jump in their stats, career highs actually.

I fought THAT argument all of last season with people thinking we'd never match Richards/Carter/Versteeg/Powe/Carcillo's offensive numbers. We blew it away, far more than I expected. Nash would be filling JvR's spot, which he'd likely crush. This team will never struggle for offense (I believe you said that in a previous post), but they want a long-term, elite winger with Giroux. Hartnell isn't it

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06-17-2012, 12:55 AM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
Are you thinking these out before you post (sorry if that comes off as insulting, it's not intended)? The cap is rising annually as the league grows and the new TV contract comes into effect. By the time Giroux, Couturier, Schenn, and Read are up for FA, Timonen and Meszaros will be off the books, Hartnell may be as well (or may take a cut). We should have very little problem with re-signing any of those players with the freed up space/increasing space.




Don't you think playing with Giroux exaggerated his shooting percentage? Or did it just happen...Simmonds, Talbot, and Read all were thrust into an uptempo offensive system and saw a significant jump in their stats, career highs actually.

I fought THAT argument all of last season with people thinking we'd never match Richards/Carter/Versteeg/Powe/Carcillo's offensive numbers. We blew it away, far more than I expected. Nash would be filling JvR's spot, which he'd likely crush. This team will never struggle for offense (I believe you said that in a previous post), but they want a long-term, elite winger with Giroux. Hartnell isn't it
Simmonds and Talbot also had high shooting percentages, but Simmonds is likely too small of a sample to know what the real average is. At the end of the season, like Hartnell, Simmonds was starting to come back down. It's the flip side to why I expected Briere's scoring to come alive, luckily it did for him or else he'd be the one being pushed out the door this summer.

Talbot also set a career high in shooting percentage, and only two fewer shots. Shooting percentages don't really change depending on the system. Talbot has been proven to have had better offensive numbers in the playoffs. I said that back when we signed him that with Pittsburgh he was good for a half point per game, and that's about what he did for us this season.

Point is, they did get lucky by getting added scoring. They're going to need Schenn, Couturier and JVR/whoever to make up for any potential regression.

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06-17-2012, 02:40 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
You're paying him $7.8M to do it. Just want to make sure you're ok with the Flyers having to dump Schenn or Couturier in a few years when we won't be able to play them.




Hartnell had a huge year in part because of an exaggerated shooting percentage. He set a career high (15.9 with his career average at 11.3). He'll be back down to 23-25 next year. Simmonds, similarly.

On the other side, Nash was low. But for his number, he'd have to produce at a rate to make up for the loss of possibly two other players. That's unlikely to happen.
I love how you state this as fact.

hartnells numbers are up due to the fact that he had so much room on the ice with Giroux and Jagr. Hartnell found himself completley alone in the slot all season due to Giroux and Jagr holding players down low and on the half boards. If we get another season of that, you can bet that Hartnells numbers will be similar.

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06-17-2012, 04:17 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
You're paying him $7.8M to do it. Just want to make sure you're ok with the Flyers having to dump Schenn or Couturier in a few years when we won't be able to play them.
Slow down, tiger. I never said I wanted the Flyers to match Columbus' price for Nash and his fat contract. I'm just getting tired of seeing silly posts trying to knock down Rick Nash's enormous talent.

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06-17-2012, 08:15 AM
  #82
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If Hartsy can get 37 goals playing with Giroux, Nash will get 80

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06-17-2012, 08:26 AM
  #83
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Hartnell, Simmonds was starting to come back down.
True. The silver lining to this is that it should help the Flyers resign them for less at the end of this upcoming season.

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Old
06-17-2012, 09:43 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post
Slow down, tiger. I never said I wanted the Flyers to match Columbus' price for Nash and his fat contract. I'm just getting tired of seeing silly posts trying to knock down Rick Nash's enormous talent.
Seconded

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06-17-2012, 09:50 AM
  #85
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Flyersfan9180 and Healthyscratch are causing problems in the Rick Nash thread. Flyers looking to trade them

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06-17-2012, 09:50 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
I posted something he said last night about the Flyers, and a couple of guys got on me for it

They were saying he isn't a legit source (kinda agree) but he does have some insider info somehow. He called a couple of trades at the deadline, and a couple of hirings here and there.

I just don't want to give up too much for Nash. I want to keep our depth and improve our D. If we can get Nash and still manage to keep our outstanding depth, im all for it. Howson wants too much for Nash. I could see a deal like JVR, BOB, and maybe two prospects and a pick(not a 1st).

EDIT: LOOK ABOVE!
Fleecing GMs is one of the few things that Homer has been able to do well, so it wouldn't shock me to see Nash for less than expected. With that said, I'm still torn on whether or not getting Nash would be worth it. It would give Giroux an allstar talent to play with, but that hit is huge.

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06-17-2012, 09:51 AM
  #87
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@Hollywood_Couturier
Thank god I signed that NMC, don't know about healthy scratch though....

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06-17-2012, 09:54 AM
  #88
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Fleecing GMs is one of the few things that Homer has been able to do well, so it wouldn't shock me to see Nash for less than expected. With that said, I'm still torn on whether or not getting Nash would be worth it. It would give Giroux an allstar talent to play with, but that hit is huge.
He really fleeced Yzerman in the Gagne for Walker trade


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06-17-2012, 10:01 AM
  #89
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He really fleeced Yzerman in the Gagne for Walker trade

I might be in the minority here, but Gagne wasn't worth as much as everyone was saying here. Injuries have really hurt his career and trade value. He might have got a little under what he was really worth, but he wasn't worth a 1st or a 2nd at the time we traded him. 5.25 million for a 20 goal scored, I don't think any GM wants that kind of deal

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06-17-2012, 10:17 AM
  #90
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Thank god I signed that NMC, don't know about healthy scratch though....
You sure it doesnt kick in July 1, 2012?


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06-17-2012, 10:22 AM
  #91
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I love how you state this as fact.

hartnells numbers are up due to the fact that he had so much room on the ice with Giroux and Jagr. Hartnell found himself completley alone in the slot all season due to Giroux and Jagr holding players down low and on the half boards. If we get another season of that, you can bet that Hartnells numbers will be similar.
GKJ is right. He had a flukey year with his shooting percentage. Just like he had a flukey year in the other direction in shooting percentage in 09-10 when he scored only 14. When his shooting percentage normalizes he's more likely to be a 25 goal scorer. I'm sure most fans will hate him on again for having a disappointing year because they've created unrealistic expectations in their minds.

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06-17-2012, 10:23 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
I might be in the minority here, but Gagne wasn't worth as much as everyone was saying here. Injuries have really hurt his career and trade value. He might have got a little under what he was really worth, but he wasn't worth a 1st or a 2nd at the time we traded him. 5.25 million for a 20 goal scored, I don't think any GM wants that kind of deal
Also he had a no trade clause and only wanted to go to Tampa. Yzerman took advantage of that and the Flyers took less to do what was best for the player.

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06-17-2012, 10:26 AM
  #93
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Are we even on Nash's list of approved teams?

Columbus' beat writer reported the following five in February: Leafs, Bruins, NYR, Sharks, Kings.

Granted, he could be wrong, or the list could have expanded...certainly the Kings would have no interest now, and I can't imagine the Bruins making te move. The Sharks and Blue Jackets basically came to an impasse--CBJ wants Couture, the Sharks won't give him up.


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06-17-2012, 10:27 AM
  #94
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Thank god I signed that NMC, don't know about healthy scratch though....
I'm not sure too many teams can handle my cap hit. I'm a great locker room guy who enjoys talking to guys like Panatch too so it's going to be hard to trade me.

I know he's not a legit source, just posting for fun. The thread is titled "Rick Nash rumors" afterall!! I figured it's better to post his stuff here than clogging up the offseason thread.

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06-17-2012, 10:42 AM
  #95
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The funny thing about *************** is that he called the coming update "shocking". With what Flyers fans have lived through over the last year, I'm not sure there is any capacity to be shocked. Giroux being traded is probably the only thing that could do it these days.

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06-17-2012, 10:49 AM
  #96
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The funny thing about *************** is that he called the coming update "shocking". With what Flyers fans have lived through over the last year, I'm not sure there is any capacity to be shocked. Giroux being traded is probably the only thing that could do it these days.
Or Bryz!

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06-17-2012, 10:52 AM
  #97
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Or Bryz!
That wouldn't shock me. Surprise me, yes, in the same way that Briere, Hartnell, Timmonen, etc would, but definitely not shock.

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06-17-2012, 11:00 AM
  #98
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That wouldn't shock me. Surprise me, yes, in the same way that Briere, Hartnell, Timmonen, etc would, but definitely not shock.
Bryz (or Briere) waiving a NTC to go to Columbus would be at least as shocking as our decision to trade Richards.

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06-17-2012, 11:04 AM
  #99
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Bryz (or Briere) waiving a NTC to go to Columbus would be at least as shocking as our decision to trade Richards.
No way Briere would waive it. The more I think about it I could see Bryz waiving his NTC. Columbus doesn't have the media that Philly has and they have to play better team defense on that team in front of him. The only thing about that is that would Columbus take on that contract? That is a long time to have a goalie locked up even if he is an above average goaltender. Mason would have to come back the other way also, which if I remember correctly the Flyers were trying to get before.

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06-17-2012, 11:05 AM
  #100
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No way Briere would waive it. The more I think about it I could see Bryz waiving his NTC. Columbus doesn't have the media that Philly has and they have to play better team defense on that team in front of him. The only thing about that is that would Columbus take on that contract? That is a long time to have a goalie locked up even if he is an above average goaltender. Mason would have to come back the other way also, which if I remember correctly the Flyers were trying to get before.
I was told yesterday that danny would accept a trade back to buffalo

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