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Off-Season Discussion Part V (Cap info in 1st post)

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Old
06-17-2012, 12:16 PM
  #801
mpp9
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Originally Posted by M0NTY26 View Post
As horrible as Martin played this year, and as much as it appears that obstruction is creeping back into the game (which definitely doesn't suit Martins game) I wouldn't be upset if we didn't move him, as long as he returns to the form he was in his first season with us. Outside of Letang, our entire top four played quite poorly this year. Maybe it was systematic.

When Shero signed M&M, this board was going nuts about how we now have a top 3 in the league top 4 on defense. My, how quickly opinions change. M&M are still excellent players who experienced down years. It happens to everyone that isn't named Sidney Crosby.
It's one thing to struggle, but M/M as a pairing was downright atrocious. Orpik/Michalek was nearly as bad. He's just not a fit here. Mistakes are made. It's up to Shero to see that he's not a fit, get value back for him in this market and address our needs moving forward. Size and physicality on both sides of the puck being crucial.

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06-17-2012, 12:25 PM
  #802
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Yea ill all but guarantee he is still on the team by game 1... Shero has some defensive decisions though, with the young guys and waiver eligible ones.

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06-17-2012, 12:26 PM
  #803
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I can tell you one thing Michalek and Martin would have been better under Therrien... The style of play of DB is somewhat different from Therrien and also from Tippett and Lemaire... They were good in a defensive first system...

So maybe the evaluation of the players was mistaken because of this... Their value got higher because of the team concept...

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06-17-2012, 12:31 PM
  #804
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxpenguins6630 View Post
I can tell you one thing Michalek and Martin would have been better under Therrien... The style of play of DB is somewhat different from Therrien and also from Tippett and Lemaire... They were good in a defensive first system...

So maybe the evaluation of the players was mistaken because of this... Their value got higher because of the team concept...
Absolutely agree with you. Martin and Michalek are definitely one-on-one defenders. I think if Martin focused on one guy he'd be so much better.

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06-17-2012, 01:14 PM
  #805
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Originally Posted by Aarow View Post
Agreed. If RS finds away to land E. Kane then WOW. Playing with Sid he could be a 70+ point wing, and just think of how Sid will benefit from a good winger.
I think Jordan Staal is the only piece that works for both sides really. Then get Gaustad as a 3C and we're set.

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06-17-2012, 01:29 PM
  #806
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Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
I think Jordan Staal is the only piece that works for both sides really. Then get Gaustad as a 3C and we're set.
E. Kane is set to be an RFA, if hes not going to re-up with the Jets then maybe it wont take a Staal but maybe Pitts first for his rights.


Gaustad would be nice, I would even try and snag Colin Wilson and the rights to TooToo.

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06-17-2012, 01:34 PM
  #807
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Tootoo would be interesting to have as well. Nashville have a lot of players who are going through free-agency this year so will have a lot of work on to re-sign them all.

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06-17-2012, 01:38 PM
  #808
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Nash might have some problem on the back end if Weber and Sutter don't re-up.
Maybe a Martin for Wilson and TooToo trade works. TooToo would be the perfect addition to the bottom 6.

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06-17-2012, 01:49 PM
  #809
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If NSH was really looking to move Wilson, it would cost a heck of a lot more than some people are suggesting. He's got 1st line potential and they would be looking for someone similar in return.

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06-17-2012, 02:02 PM
  #810
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Martin+Tk for colin wilson and rights to jordan tootoo.
Jordan staal for evander kane
Sign Paul gaustad

kunitz-crosby-kane
Neal-malkin-wilson
tangradi-gaustad-dupuis
Cooke-vitale-tootoo

Letang-despres
Orpik-michalek
Niskinen-strait
Maybe call joe morrow up mid-season if he is doing really good and replace strait with him.

Fleury
Vokoun

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06-17-2012, 02:04 PM
  #811
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr sidney crosby View Post
Martin+Tk for colin wilson and rights to jordan tootoo.
Jordan staal for evander kane
Sign Paul gaustad

kunitz-crosby-kane
Neal-malkin-wilson
tangradi-gaustad-dupuis
Cooke-vitale-tootoo

Letang-despres
Orpik-michalek
Niskinen-strait
Maybe call joe morrow up mid-season if he is doing really good and replace strait with him.

Fleury
Vokoun
Do I love the suggestions - yes. Are they realistic? Not really. It'd be so hard to make all of these things happen. That's why it's tough to get 3 things to all fall your way.

But yeah - our team would be a lot better this way. I would add a vet defensive dman, too. That'd be the perfect squad for us.

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06-17-2012, 02:12 PM
  #812
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NYI looking for another Wisniewski

Staples specualtes below about which defenseman Snow will go after.He'd love Subban,but he isn't available.
Staples points out that Jaybo,Ballard,Martin and Michalek contracts are unworkable.
He suggest the isles are looking for another Wiz situation.

I see Niskanen has rejected his $1.75 million qualifying offer.Any interest in a Kabanov for Niskanen swap?

6'3 Kabanov is expected to fight for a NYI roster spot.He may need some time in the AHL,but he is close to nhl ready.


http://www.newsday.com/sports/hockey...ason-1.3786615
There are other defensemen available, according to two NHL sources, but they are veterans playing mediocre hockey on fairly unworkable contracts: the Flames' Jay Bouwmeester, the Canucks' Keith Ballard and possibly the Penguins' Paul Martin and Zbynek Michalek.

So Snow likely will have to continue his search beyond the draft, hoping an arbitration case forces a team's hand, as it did with the Ducks and James Wisniewski two summers ago.

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06-17-2012, 02:14 PM
  #813
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
Staples specualtes below about which defenseman Snow will go after.He'd love Subban,but he isn't available.
Staples points out that Jaybo,Ballard,Martin and Michalek contracts are unworkable.
He suggest the isles are looking for another Wiz situation.

I see Niskanen has rejected his $1.75 million qualifying offer.Any interest in a Kabanov for Niskanen swap?


6'3 Kabanov is expected to fight for a NYI roster spot.He may need some time in the AHL,but he is close to nhl ready.


http://www.newsday.com/sports/hockey...ason-1.3786615
There are other defensemen available, according to two NHL sources, but they are veterans playing mediocre hockey on fairly unworkable contracts: the Flames' Jay Bouwmeester, the Canucks' Keith Ballard and possibly the Penguins' Paul Martin and Zbynek Michalek.

So Snow likely will have to continue his search beyond the draft, hoping an arbitration case forces a team's hand, as it did with the Ducks and James Wisniewski two summers ago.
Not a chance. Niskanen is a solid #5 capable of playing spot duty in the top 4. Given his age and remaining upside he's worth way more than a middling prospect.

I think Niskanen will probably sign for 3 years at around 2.8 or 3 million a year fairly soon. IMO, Martin is your best shot with the Penguins.

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06-17-2012, 02:19 PM
  #814
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Originally Posted by jmelm View Post
If NSH was really looking to move Wilson, it would cost a heck of a lot more than some people are suggesting. He's got 1st line potential and they would be looking for someone similar in return.
Agreed. I'd probably part with a top prospect and a pick for him though. He hasn't lit the world on fire in Nashville, but he's got the tools to be a stud player.

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06-17-2012, 02:20 PM
  #815
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sideline View Post
Not a chance. Niskanen is a solid #5 capable of playing spot duty in the top 4. Given his age and remaining upside he's worth way more than a middling prospect.

I think Niskanen will probably sign for 3 years at around 2.8 or 3 million a year fairly soon. IMO, Martin is your best shot with the Penguins.
Read the link to Staples new article I posted.

Staples points out that Jaybo,Ballard,Martin and Michalek contracts are unworkable for the NYI.They make to much and are playing mediocre hockey.

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06-17-2012, 02:22 PM
  #816
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What's funny about the Paul Martin to NYI speculation is that he plays his very best hockey against them. One of the NYI-Pitt games last year, Martin put on an absolute ****in clinic and shut down Tavares completely.

Though Martin makes a lot of money, I think he'd be good for the Isles.

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06-17-2012, 02:22 PM
  #817
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
Read the link to Staples new article I posted.

Staples points out that Jaybo,Ballard,Martin and Michalek contracts are unworkable for the NYI.They make to much and are playing mediocre hockey.
Well then have a nice day. Cya...

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06-17-2012, 02:25 PM
  #818
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr sidney crosby View Post
Martin+Tk for colin wilson and rights to jordan tootoo.
Jordan staal for evander kane
Sign Paul gaustad

kunitz-crosby-kane
Neal-malkin-wilson
tangradi-gaustad-dupuis
Cooke-vitale-tootoo

Letang-despres
Orpik-michalek
Niskinen-strait
Maybe call joe morrow up mid-season if he is doing really good and replace strait with him.

Fleury
Vokoun
Nice roster, and nice ideas. Simply to many moves that require each of the others falling into place for it all to work. Slim chance to none that roster would be a reality.

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06-17-2012, 02:40 PM
  #819
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
Read the link to Staples new article I posted.

Staples points out that Jaybo,Ballard,Martin and Michalek contracts are unworkable for the NYI
.They make to much and are playing mediocre hockey.
No, he didn't. He said that they are on fairly unworkable contracts, and didn't say anything about that being a deal-breaker. That's your editorializing, in an attempt to justify the Pens moving Niskanen instead.

Further, the NYI may well need to add some meaty contracts just to hit the cap floor, so Martin could be a viable option regardless.

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06-17-2012, 02:41 PM
  #820
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Staal+Michalek+1st for S. Weber+C. Wilson+

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06-17-2012, 02:41 PM
  #821
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I doubt Niskanen would accept a move to the Islanders as well. Not that we'd get any in return that I'd consider doing it for.

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06-17-2012, 02:45 PM
  #822
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Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
I doubt Niskanen would accept a move to the Islanders as well. Not that we'd get any in return that I'd consider doing it for.
He wouldn't have a choice. He doesn't a NTC & is a RFA. If he got traded & didn't like it he would have to sit out a year or maybe work out something on a 1 year basis.

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06-17-2012, 02:50 PM
  #823
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
Read the link to Staples new article I posted.

Staples points out that Jaybo,Ballard,Martin and Michalek contracts are unworkable for the NYI.They make to much and are playing mediocre hockey.
You do realize that some contracts being unworkable for NYI does not in itself entitle them to the workable contracts, right? If they can neither take Martin´s contract nor make a real offer for Niskanen, then maybe look elsewere?

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06-17-2012, 02:55 PM
  #824
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A Staal for Colin Wilson+ deal is an interesting idea. What that plus is, I have no idea. But Wilson would be interesting as a guy to develop as a third line center to take over for Staal.

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06-17-2012, 03:00 PM
  #825
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
No, he didn't. He said that they are on fairly unworkable contracts, and didn't say anything about that being a deal-breaker. That's your editorializing, in an attempt to justify the Pens moving Niskanen instead.

Further, the NYI may well need to add some meaty contracts just to hit the cap floor, so Martin could be a viable option regardless.

Read Staples comments.He doesn't say the isles want to go after Jaybo,Ballard,Martin or Michalek.He points out they are available,but have 'fairly unworkable contracts.

Then he goes on to say the isles want another Wiz situation:a team wanting out of an arbitration award or short term bad contract.Wiz's deal was 1 yr/$3.2m.


Isles will not have to add some meaty contracts to meet the $54m cap floor.
The cap floor is $54m.The isles are just above $39m with 15 players signed.

Snow has said to expect more prospects.
Nelson at $2.9m and De Haan at $1.4m are good bets.
Parenteau or another top 6 forward at $4m-$4.5m(would love to land E. Kane).
top 4 defenseman at $3m+
Staios is reportedly coming back.Over 35,so can be signed to bonuses.
Poulin or Nilson as the #2 goalie
raise for Matt Martin.

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