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Should we tank for MacKinnon?

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Old
06-17-2012, 12:07 PM
  #51
76ftw
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we may as well just tank forever, imagine all the young talent!

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06-17-2012, 12:11 PM
  #52
NotProkofievian
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Yeah, Imagine having a 100 point player, or 50 goal scorer.

...

I MEAN, WHO WANTS THAT, RIGHT!?

The only thing holding this team back is some high-octane offense, and you generally only come about that one way.

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06-17-2012, 12:39 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by CrimsonSkorpion View Post
As Lyrical mentioned early on, I would hope they do not tank on purpose. However if it's clear they are not making it again, acquire as many picks as you can and stock up for the draft.
That's a big IF. Can you imagine the Habs being THAT far out of it in advance of the trading deadline? Why should they be? Don't you think that Bergevin could make repairs that aren't radical unless he were just plain giving up? Which of the 14 teams that finished ahead of the Habs (playoff or non-playoff) do you foresee as locks to finish ahead of them in 2012-13? BESIDES, do you think the team would stop playing hard? If they did, it would be because they're revolting against Therrien not because they were commanded to do so.

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06-17-2012, 12:48 PM
  #54
Crimson Skorpion
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Besides all this, crimson said "IF". I even capitalized it. IF doesn't mean you have no faith, it just means you're prepared for anything.
Thanks for clearing that up.

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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
That's a big IF. Can you imagine the Habs being THAT far out of it in advance of the trading deadline? Why should they be? Don't you think that Bergevin could make repairs that aren't radical unless he were just plain giving up? Which of the 14 teams that finished ahead of the Habs (playoff or non-playoff) do you foresee as locks to finish ahead of them in 2012-13? BESIDES, do you think the team would stop playing hard? If they did, it would be because they're revolting against Therrien not because they were commanded to do so.
Oh I don't expect the results to be similar to last season. Far from that actually. What I meant wasn't "IF they are mathematically out", what I meant was if it looks to be going the same route as last year. Last year people wanted the Habs to trade Moen, Darche, Campoli, Kaberle, anybody that could land them at least a 7th round pick.

I mean, we can sit here and play the "don't you think game," and that's fine but I also though Cole would be a solid addition to the top 6 and add some scoring. While I was right, what I didn't expect was there not being any scoring from any of the other lines. I also expected Price to play great again. What I didn't expect - though I should have - was the defensive struggles of quite a few players.

As good as Bergevin may make this time, they still need to perform on the ice.

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06-17-2012, 01:08 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Hockey Mind View Post
I'm of the decided opinion to say yes.
This thread is so ****ing idiotic.

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06-17-2012, 01:25 PM
  #56
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These threads are pathetic, silly and downright idiotic.

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06-17-2012, 01:29 PM
  #57
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I would most assuredly make trades for a couple more 1st round picks.If there is another shortened season and a lottery draft again the more picks you have the better your chances of a top five choice or two it's all chance then.Montreal could conceivably end up with Seth Jones and Hunter Shinkaruk that way.This is using the old noggin the way a good GM should with the generational talent available next Draft-2013.

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06-17-2012, 01:29 PM
  #58
Kjell Dahlin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 76ftw View Post
we may as well just tank forever, imagine all the young talent!
Our prospects pool would be #1! And GAWD knows that's the MAIN goal.

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Old
06-17-2012, 02:20 PM
  #59
Beendair Donedat
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Originally Posted by Le CH View Post
Some of you are seriously underestimating this team - last year was a one-off... we have some pretty good players so I don't think this team can fail as badly as last year.

edit: unless Price gets injured for an extended amount of time
I seriously disagree with you. I don't think they are a good team, even with their missing players. They might not be as bad as they were last year, but there are several glaring holes in this lineup.

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06-17-2012, 02:26 PM
  #60
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First of all, I don't think anyone or any team should ever try to intentionally lose games. That isn't what the sport or this storied franchise is about...

However, this team has needed a full scale rebuild for several years now. I'm sure everyone here is fully aware that the last Stanley Cup that the Habs won was in 1993. That's almost 20 years without the Cup coming home, mostly because the management has refused to rebuild completely, rather going for patchwork solutions.

We are at the point that a rebuild would allow us to succeed for many many years to come. We have a solid management group in place, several key prospects coming up through the pipeline and many draft picks in place over the next couple of seasons.

I think that should the team not be in a contending or playoff situation by a predetermined time next season, they should look at moving the most valuable players to acquire more prospects, draft picks and overall assets. Guys like Plekanec, Gionta, Cole, etc.. would all net a decent return, and allow for further development.

Should we continue to move hastily and without consideration for a long term plan, we will continue to fail, and Stanley won't be coming home.

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06-17-2012, 04:27 PM
  #61
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This thread is embarrassing.

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06-17-2012, 04:28 PM
  #62
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I'm of the decided opinion that we won't tank, that will try and get back to the playoffs, if the team falls flat on it's face again will get another high pick and go from there.

I mean honestly guys, there aren't going to be any drastic changes to this roster from last year, however there will be improvement from within at the end of the day Beaulieu, Tinordi and Ellis are going to take a few years to get up to NHL level the only player who may make the roster is gallagher and that is still very unlikely

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06-17-2012, 04:29 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 76ftw View Post
we may as well just tank forever, imagine all the young talent!
Maybe we could host the draft every year again or something. That would rock.

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Old
06-17-2012, 05:30 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
These threads are pathetic, silly and downright idiotic.
This.

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Old
06-17-2012, 05:34 PM
  #65
Et le But
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beendair Donedat View Post
First of all, I don't think anyone or any team should ever try to intentionally lose games. That isn't what the sport or this storied franchise is about...

However, this team has needed a full scale rebuild for several years now. I'm sure everyone here is fully aware that the last Stanley Cup that the Habs won was in 1993. That's almost 20 years without the Cup coming home, mostly because the management has refused to rebuild completely, rather going for patchwork solutions.

We are at the point that a rebuild would allow us to succeed for many many years to come. We have a solid management group in place, several key prospects coming up through the pipeline and many draft picks in place over the next couple of seasons.

I think that should the team not be in a contending or playoff situation by a predetermined time next season, they should look at moving the most valuable players to acquire more prospects, draft picks and overall assets. Guys like Plekanec, Gionta, Cole, etc.. would all net a decent return, and allow for further development.

Should we continue to move hastily and without consideration for a long term plan, we will continue to fail, and Stanley won't be coming home.
How many cups have the Capitals won by starting from nothing and tanking? The Blue Jackets?

Since the last Habs cup win, one third of the league has won the cup. By your logic, we'd be tanking with 18 other teams who have longer cup droughts than the Habs.

Now I agree with you this team has holes. But the idea that selling off all players over a certain age will magically make the Habs into a contender because they will suck for a good 5 or so years, well, the results of that are mixed.

You can argue that we should get rid of Gionta, Cole, Plekanec, and so on because they aren't kids and therefore will be past their prime in a few years. But what's the point of having young players if they don't have anyone to learn from?

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Old
06-17-2012, 05:43 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beendair Donedat View Post
First of all, I don't think anyone or any team should ever try to intentionally lose games. That isn't what the sport or this storied franchise is about...

However, this team has needed a full scale rebuild for several years now. I'm sure everyone here is fully aware that the last Stanley Cup that the Habs won was in 1993. That's almost 20 years without the Cup coming home, mostly because the management has refused to rebuild completely, rather going for patchwork solutions.

We are at the point that a rebuild would allow us to succeed for many many years to come. We have a solid management group in place, several key prospects coming up through the pipeline and many draft picks in place over the next couple of seasons.

I think that should the team not be in a contending or playoff situation by a predetermined time next season, they should look at moving the most valuable players to acquire more prospects, draft picks and overall assets. Guys like Plekanec, Gionta, Cole, etc.. would all net a decent return, and allow for further development.

Should we continue to move hastily and without consideration for a long term plan, we will continue to fail, and Stanley won't be coming home.
Do you guys realize just how hard it is to win the Stanley Cup? 30 teams, 4 playoffs rounds, 16 wins, and in the end, one winner. You can be the best team in the regular season and be eliminated in the first round.

To win a cup, you don't absolutely need to have the most skilled team on the ice. You need to put together a line up that will come together at the right time.

We can't tank with the team we have right now. It's just not logical. We are not a last place team. We can't be fooled by last season's results.

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06-17-2012, 06:58 PM
  #67
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Recipe for MacKinnon/Seth Jones (I like Seth Jones, a future Pronger):

1) Trade Pleks + Nashville 2nd to get Duck's 6th overall pick
2) Trade Gionta at trade deadlines for a 15-20 picks of 2013.

We got both Galchenyuk + Grigorenko and our fanbase will stop fighting about which center should we pick. We got an amazing player in MacKinnon/Seth Jones. We will be a Cup contender in 2/3 years.

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Old
06-17-2012, 07:02 PM
  #68
Et le But
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustAHabFan View Post
Recipe for MacKinnon/Seth Jones (I like Seth Jones, a future Pronger):

1) Trade Pleks + Nashville 2nd to get Duck's 6th overall pick
2) Trade Gionta at trade deadlines for a 15-20 picks of 2013.

We got both Galchenyuk + Grigorenko and our fanbase will stop fighting about which center should we pick. We got an amazing player in MacKinnon/Seth Jones. We will be a Cup contender in 2/3 years.

How are we going to be a cup contender in 3 years after that when none of those three should be counted on to lead a team in 3 years?

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Old
06-17-2012, 07:19 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
How are we going to be a cup contender in 3 years after that when none of those three should be counted on to lead a team in 3 years?
Galchenyuk and Grigorenko should be good in 3 years. MacKinnon/Seth Jones (especially Seth Jones) should play in the NHL right away. In three years, Tinordi, Beaulieu, Ellis, Dietz should be ready. Gallagher, Bournival, Kristo should play in the NHL too. We should be either contender or very close to be contending in 3 years.

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Old
06-17-2012, 07:25 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by JustAHabFan View Post
Recipe for MacKinnon/Seth Jones (I like Seth Jones, a future Pronger):

1) Trade Pleks + Nashville 2nd to get Duck's 6th overall pick
2) Trade Gionta at trade deadlines for a 15-20 picks of 2013.

We got both Galchenyuk + Grigorenko and our fanbase will stop fighting about which center should we pick. We got an amazing player in MacKinnon/Seth Jones. We will be a Cup contender in 2/3 years.
I'm not sure where a top 2 pick in 2013 comes from your idea.

Are you saying that pick comes from trading Habs 1st plus the first from the Gionta trade?

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Old
06-17-2012, 07:26 PM
  #71
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Tanking is so stupid. So overused. Instead of tanking, The management should focus more on development of prospects.

As a fan, i want the habs to make the playoffs every year, even if it means 8th seed again.

YOU JUST NEVER KNOW.

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Old
06-17-2012, 07:27 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustAHabFan View Post
Recipe for MacKinnon/Seth Jones (I like Seth Jones, a future Pronger):

1) Trade Pleks + Nashville 2nd to get Duck's 6th overall pick
2) Trade Gionta at trade deadlines for a 15-20 picks of 2013.

We got both Galchenyuk + Grigorenko and our fanbase will stop fighting about which center should we pick. We got an amazing player in MacKinnon/Seth Jones. We will be a Cup contender in 2/3 years.
Pleks is really the lynchpin of it all. I really think Bergevin's got a "bishop on f7 sacrifice" that he could use with Pleks. Will he use it though?

....no.

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Old
06-17-2012, 07:28 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by groovejuice View Post
I'm not sure where a top 2 pick in 2013 comes from your idea.

Are you saying that pick comes from trading Habs 1st plus the first from the Gionta trade?
The idea is that we'll get picked apart without Pleks' tough minutes, and that'll increase the value of our first pick. I think.

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06-17-2012, 07:32 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
The idea is that we'll get picked apart without Pleks' tough minutes, and that'll increase the value of our first pick. I think.
Exactly. Without Pleks for the whole season and without Gionta for the later parts, we will have another lottery picks in 2013.

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Old
06-17-2012, 07:37 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by JustAHabFan View Post
Exactly. Without Pleks for the whole season and without Gionta for the later parts, we will have another lottery picks in 2013.
I would just rather a prospect closer to graduation for pleks. Etem + maybe.

Plus it may actually end up forcing our hand to drafting another center, especially if we draft, say, Forsberg this week. Whereas, at this point, I'd rather have Shinkaruk than say, Barkov.

It's an interesting idea.

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