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06-17-2012, 11:50 AM
  #426
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
which levels would that be?

Pominville is a secondary piece on a real contender. The same way Justin Williams is a secondary piece on LA.

It would be monumentally stupid to say "No" to Pittsburgh, if they offered Jordan Staal for Jason Pominville

You build around Centers and Blueliners... wingers can be found to replace Pommer quite easily.
Pominville is the RW version of Staal.

What W do you replace him with that plays well with your franchise LW, is the captain of your team and plays every role well?

I like Staal, I watch a lot of Pens games - he's exactly what we need at C. But he's being pretty overrated right now. He's not as good of a hockey player as Pominville is.

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06-17-2012, 11:58 AM
  #427
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Originally Posted by sba View Post
Pominville is the RW version of Staal.
That's a terrible comparison.

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06-17-2012, 11:59 AM
  #428
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
That's a terrible comparison.
You're right, because Pominville is better offensively.

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06-17-2012, 12:01 PM
  #429
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You're right, because Pominville is better offensively.
You're right because it's that simple

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06-17-2012, 12:01 PM
  #430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
which levels would that be?

Pominville is a secondary piece on a real contender. The same way Justin Williams is a secondary piece on LA.

It would be monumentally stupid to say "No" to Pittsburgh, if they offered Jordan Staal for Jason Pominville

You build around Centers and Blueliners... wingers can be found to replace Pommer quite easily.
I think that's selling Pommer short to compare him to Justin Williams. Pommer is a much better player than Williams...

He's probably halfway between Williams and Hossa on the importance chart. He may not be the main piece you build a team around, but he's not just a glue player either.

(For the record, I'm not sold on Staal being the "main piece" either.)

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06-17-2012, 12:01 PM
  #431
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
That's a terrible comparison.
Out of his entire post you choose to nitpick that? pretty sure he was refering to how the both play all situations and are most relied upon in their own zone and in critical situations. Very important players to their respective teams, Pominville is not an easy player to replace.

I would prefer the Sabres just draft Faksa and develop him as that big 2 way center they havent had in along time, we definetly need size up the middle.


Last edited by 1972: 06-17-2012 at 12:07 PM.
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06-17-2012, 12:03 PM
  #432
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Besides, merits of each player aside, they're trading Staal because they can't afford to keep him, Pominville is a non-starter for them because of his cap hit.

They're going to want young guys with manageable cap hits that they can get a few years out of. Taking Pominville adds cap money to that team.

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06-17-2012, 12:05 PM
  #433
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Originally Posted by LoveDaSwords View Post
I think that's selling Pommer short to compare him to Justin Williams. Pommer is a much better player than Williams...
Most buffalo fans will probably agree with you.

Most LA fans would probably see it in reverse.

Most non biased fans would see them as very good comparables.

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06-17-2012, 12:06 PM
  #434
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1972 View Post
Out of his entire post you choose to nitpick that? pretty sure he was refering to how the both play all situations and are most relied upon in their own zone and in critical situations. Very important plays to their respective teams, Pominville is not an easy player to replace.
This.

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06-17-2012, 12:28 PM
  #435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sba View Post
Besides, merits of each player aside, they're trading Staal because they can't afford to keep him, Pominville is a non-starter for them because of his cap hit.

They're going to want young guys with manageable cap hits that they can get a few years out of. Taking Pominville adds cap money to that team.
The trade Pens fans really like is Pominville and Adam for Staal and Kennedy.

You're comparing current cap hits for Pominville and Staal. Staal's going to want more than $5.3M. That's why Pittsburgh can't keep him if Crosby signs. In that regard, Pominville's affordable for them.

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06-17-2012, 01:03 PM
  #436
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Most buffalo fans will probably agree with you.

Most LA fans would probably see it in reverse.

Most non biased fans would see them as very good comparables.
Williams does not PK...at all. Defensively Pominville is miles ahead. Pommer has more blocked shots, more takeaways (though that's a very imperfect stat), etc.
Williams is not physical...at all. So similar to Pominville.
Pominville can be expected to put up at least the same amount of points (~60) if not more (like this season). In fact, the only season Williams has produced more was Pommer's concussion year, and even then only by 5 points.
Pommer is also far more durable than Williams, only missing time once to injury (the concussion).
Then there are the "intangibles" of Pommer being the captain, though that's a final consideration given intangibles are, well, intangible.

Pominville is clearly a better all-around player...I really don't see how that can be disputed. I don't think that's being biased either.

Williams has a role in LA, and he plays it well. Pommer plays a bigger role here. Williams is more of a glue guy in LA, Pommer is relied on for much more here.

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06-17-2012, 01:10 PM
  #437
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Originally Posted by sba View Post
Besides, merits of each player aside, they're trading Staal because they can't afford to keep him, Pominville is a non-starter for them because of his cap hit.

They're going to want young guys with manageable cap hits that they can get a few years out of. Taking Pominville adds cap money to that team.
I doubt the Pens move him just because of cap reasons. If they trade Staal, it's because he's sick of being stuck behind Malkin and Crosby, never getting big offensive minutes. If Staal likes that set-up, he'll sign there for less $ than he could get elsewhere. If he doesn't, there's nothing the Pens can do about it other than try to trade him for something rather than letting him walk for free.

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06-17-2012, 03:22 PM
  #438
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Originally Posted by brian_griffin View Post
I can see Jordan in CAR moreso than in BUF. Unfortunately.
So, Staal basically will get to have a say in where he goes, as an impending UFA, he can say "well I don't want to sign there" and it would likely kill the trade in its tracks.

So, Staal secretly desires to step out of the shadow of Malkin and Crosby only to step into the shadow of his older brother?

On a small market team with a cheap owner and half empty stadium?

THAT is what Jordan Staal wants?

Yeah. Right. Staal could easily choose to stay in Pittsburgh by signing a cap friendly deal. "Give me 10 year, 40 million with most of it up front" and it'd be done. The truth is he wants to go someplace where he will have a chance at big minutes, a bigger role, and likely big money. He can get all that in Buffalo.

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06-17-2012, 03:27 PM
  #439
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Originally Posted by TehDoak View Post
So, Staal basically will get to have a say in where he goes, as an impending UFA, he can say "well I don't want to sign there" and it would likely kill the trade in its tracks.

So, Staal secretly desires to step out of the shadow of Malkin and Crosby only to step into the shadow of his older brother?

On a small market team with a cheap owner and half empty stadium?

THAT is what Jordan Staal wants?

Yeah. Right. Staal could easily choose to stay in Pittsburgh by signing a cap friendly deal. "Give me 10 year, 40 million with most of it up front" and it'd be done. The truth is he wants to go someplace where he will have a chance at big minutes, a bigger role, and likely big money. He can get all that in Buffalo.
If we got staal for 10 years at 4 mil cap hit I would go buy a jersey tonight!

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06-17-2012, 03:28 PM
  #440
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Apparently some people got hit with a dumb stick in here.

#1 Pominville > J. Staal. Pominville produced a 30goal (more than Staal ever scored in a season) 73 point season as a Captain. He was the most consistent player year round for the Sabres. Staal produced at a lesser pace on the 2ND line for Pittsburgh. Thinking that the is the solution to the Sabres is dumbfounded. He'll be paid higher than Roy and be less productive! A new contract would hinder the Sabres for years.
h
#2 Sekera is going no where. Yes the SAbres may be loaded at D but if you think Darcy has forgotten how valuable #7 and #8 defensemen are you're crazy. Myers, Sekera, Ehrhoff, McNabb will be our top 4 for years to come.
#3 Parise will not being signing in Buffalo (so no Parise - Staal - Ryan line)
#4 Staal will be moved unless he takes a discount. The Pens just signed Neal for 6 years (30 million)... combine that with Malkin and Crosby and there is very little room to sign the rest of the team (24 million invested in 3 players)

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06-17-2012, 03:35 PM
  #441
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Originally Posted by dma0034 View Post
Apparently some people got hit with a dumb stick in here.

#1 Pominville > J. Staal. Pominville produced a 30goal (more than Staal ever scored in a season) 73 point season as a Captain. He was the most consistent player year round for the Sabres. Staal produced at a lesser pace on the 2ND line for Pittsburgh. Thinking that the is the solution to the Sabres is dumbfounded. He'll be paid higher than Roy and be less productive! A new contract would hinder the Sabres for years.
h
#2 Sekera is going no where. Yes the SAbres may be loaded at D but if you think Darcy has forgotten how valuable #7 and #8 defensemen are you're crazy. Myers, Sekera, Ehrhoff, McNabb will be our top 4 for years to come.
#3 Parise will not being signing in Buffalo (so no Parise - Staal - Ryan line)
#4 Staal will be moved unless he takes a discount. The Pens just signed Neal for 6 years (30 million)... combine that with Malkin and Crosby and there is very little room to sign the rest of the team (24 million invested in 3 players)
Staal is also 23 vs Pominville 29-30. He hasn't hit his peak production years yet and plays the position of more value. I love the Pommer has played for Buffalo, but I'd be willing to move him to land Staal. Same for Sekera, he's been great, but if we get the right offer for him, I wouldn't call him untouchable. There are other d-men I'd try to move first, but there are very few players on this team I'd say for sure we can't move.

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06-17-2012, 03:40 PM
  #442
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Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
Staal is also 23 vs Pominville 29-30. He hasn't hit his peak production years yet and plays the position of more value. I love the Pommer has played for Buffalo, but I'd be willing to move him to land Staal. Same for Sekera, he's been great, but if we get the right offer for him, I wouldn't call him untouchable. There are other d-men I'd try to move first, but there are very few players on this team I'd say for sure we can't move.
He's 23 who has drawn 3rd line pairings. Anyone remember the Vanek - Roy- Afinogenov line in 06-07 . Vanek had 45+ goals that season..... was in a fluke? Not.... just had 1st/2nd line talent on the third line. Staal is a 2nd line talent who excels because teams are more worried about Crosby and Malkin period. TRading for him and paying more than 5.5 a year is a mistake

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06-17-2012, 03:43 PM
  #443
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Originally Posted by dma0034 View Post
He's 23 who has drawn 3rd line pairings. Anyone remember the Vanek - Roy- Afinogenov line in 06-07 . Vanek had 45+ goals that season..... was in a fluke? Not.... just had 1st/2nd line talent on the third line. Staal is a 2nd line talent who excels because teams are more worried about Crosby and Malkin period. TRading for him and paying more than 5.5 a year is a mistake
He drew first pairings in 10-11 and 2nd pairings much of last year.

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06-17-2012, 03:48 PM
  #444
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Originally Posted by Fatal System Ehrhoff View Post
He drew first pairings in 10-11 and 2nd pairings much of last year.
So did Pominville... who once against did better. But I'm not just talking about his "breakout" year of 25 goals 50 points. I'm talking since he entered the league and scored 29 goals. Always behind at least Malkin or Crosby.


The Sabres problems wasn't from a lack of defense. It was from a lack of offense. I just can't see the point of trading the leader in goals, assists, and points for a Good two way player that hasn't proven anything yet.

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06-17-2012, 03:49 PM
  #445
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And you're ignoring the fact that Staal is the one usually matched against the opposing team's best scorers...

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06-17-2012, 04:02 PM
  #446
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Originally Posted by dma0034 View Post
So did Pominville... who once against did better. But I'm not just talking about his "breakout" year of 25 goals 50 points. I'm talking since he entered the league and scored 29 goals. Always behind at least Malkin or Crosby.


The Sabres problems wasn't from a lack of defense. It was from a lack of offense. I just can't see the point of trading the leader in goals, assists, and points for a Good two way player that hasn't proven anything yet.
Staal hasn't proven anything yet? Really? He is constantly tasked with shutting down opposing teams top lines, and he still has very respectable point totals, which have been steadily increasing. With Staal, we can continue to basically run 3 scoring lines, so one of them will always get "easy" minutes to generate chances on, preferably (and probably, since Foligno's a rookie and Ruff loves giving rookies easy minutes) F-E-S. We could flip Roy for a winger and the result would be a younger, more balanced team. We'd end up with a great group of young centers to build a contender around.

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06-17-2012, 04:05 PM
  #447
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Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
And you're ignoring the fact that Staal is the one usually matched against the opposing team's best scorers...
Can someone post his ES TOI against opposition teams top lines.

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06-17-2012, 04:09 PM
  #448
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Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
Staal hasn't proven anything yet? Really? He is constantly tasked with shutting down opposing teams top lines, and he still has very respectable point totals, which have been steadily increasing. With Staal, we can continue to basically run 3 scoring lines, so one of them will always get "easy" minutes to generate chances on, preferably (and probably, since Foligno's a rookie and Ruff loves giving rookies easy minutes) F-E-S. We could flip Roy for a winger and the result would be a younger, more balanced team. We'd end up with a great group of young centers to build a contender around.
1. He solely is not responsible
2. Why would trading Roy, a higher ppg player than Staal, allow the Sabres to run 3 scoring lines?
3. More balanced? I don't think so. You are overpaying a player for potential
4. His point totals have not steadily increased.

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06-17-2012, 04:17 PM
  #449
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Can someone post his ES TOI against opposition teams top lines.
No, but if you watch his regular season goal reel, you see the likes of Kessel, Kovalchuk, Getzlaf, etc...

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06-17-2012, 04:52 PM
  #450
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Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
And you're ignoring the fact that Staal is the one usually matched against the opposing team's best scorers...
Which also means Staal gets his offense against offensive players that are generally weak defensively.

I think many are getting carried away with what Staal can do offensively.

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