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06-16-2012, 07:18 PM
  #1076
Mike Liut
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Originally Posted by HooliganX2 View Post
It still sounds like the Blues may resign Arnott. I personally would prefer Arontt on the team to Langenbrunner as he's an ideal 3rd line center. Langenbrunner really is less needed with our wing depth.


agree, especially after I hear it was Arnott's knee that was limiting him late in the season and the playoffs and not him simply running out of gas. Very solid 3rd line center.

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06-16-2012, 09:23 PM
  #1077
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Originally Posted by kimzey59 View Post
Sobotka will most likely be at center.
McDonald and Schwartz?
Grachev?

Re-signing Langenbrunner puts 2 of our wingers on the block.
D'Agostini for sure, who the other one will be is anybodies guess, and I doubt it will be one of the grinder types(Reaves, Crombeen and Grachev).
Schwartz and Grachev will start the year in P-Town, I'm thinking... unless they are just balls-to-the-wall awesome in camp.

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Old
06-16-2012, 11:01 PM
  #1078
TK 421
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Originally Posted by kimzey59 View Post
1) I don't recall Hitch ever using Oshie at center. Payne and Murray both did; but Hitch had him exclusively at RW from what I remember.

2) No, Oshie has not executed a strong 2 way game at the position. His defensive game at the center position was average at best from what I saw. His offense also dried up and his tenacity on the forecheck disappeared. This has nothing to do with "typecasting him as a winger", this is an honest description of his play at the position. Oshie is decent enough on FO's and makes a few nice deke's to keep plays alive, but he was not a true center and it was noticeable in his performance. Oshie does not have the size, speed, on-ice vision or goal scoring ability to be a scoring line center in the NHL.

He "hasn't been given an extended shot at center" because he wasn't even remotely impressive in the short stints he did play there.

It is beyond stupid to take a borderline Selke caliber 50+ point scoring winger and turn him into a line center when his offense and defense have been suspect every time he's been tried at the position. The guy doesn't belong at center and his play has proven that.
1. Hitch did indeed use him there on Mellanby's recommendation when an injury situation came up.

2. Couldn't disagree more with your take on his defensive game. I suppose you missed him clogging up the neutral zone against the Ducks top line a couple years back as Backes injury replacement. Positioning was really solid and the Ducks worried about him to the point where he was herding them to one side or another. As you mentioned he's not bringing much speed or offense, but let's not pretend he wouldn't get chances as the late guy. Christ, he couldn't possibly be any slower than Jason Arnott.

To the bolded.......

His defense was never an issue at center, laughable in the extreme that you say so. You noted yourself he's borderline Selke quality defensively. Did you think that defensive ability just dried up? That he forgot how to get a stick in the lane and pick passes off? Evidently he didn't being amongst the takeaway leaders this season. And before you tell me, "He did it as a winger!" I'll remind you that I've seen him do it as a center as well. The aforementioned game against the Ducks being a great example. He didn't produce offensively but it wasn't due to a lack of goal scoring ability. More like a dedication to the backcheck combined with a lack of speed.

In any case I'm not here to campaign for Oshie to center. Neither Oshie or Sobotka is ideally suited to the position and I would prefer they go outside the organization. Steen is the one that looks completely lost at center to me and is a great example of someone who does lose his forechecking game entirely. Oshie has never been that impressive of a forechecker to me. He just doesn't have the speed to consistently get in on the D, though when he does he wins more than his fair share of puck battles. And that would be great...if he could get there a little quicker....which he doesn't consistently enough for me.

Again, I agree with you in regards to there being legit questions about him offensively as a center, but that can be mostly attributed to his lack of speed. He could still be the late guy coming in and with the way he handles goalies in the SO...I think he'd score a few. But when you suggest that he's a horribad option there and say," his offense and defense have been suspect every time he's been tried at the position", that just simply isn't true. In fact, he's got one outstanding performance defensively there that you're either choosing to ignore or weren't aware of in the 1st place. Sounds decidedly like you're painting this picture to suit your preference of keeping him at RW when you say dumb crap like he doesn't have the goal scoring ability or on ice vision to play the position. Really? The best SO player we have doesn't have enough goal scoring ability. Um, OK. Tied for the team lead in points but he doesn't have enough "vision" to make a play in the offensive zone? All right then. His size? You're really going to go there? I think he's proven time and again that size isn't much of an issue for him. His speed could obviously be better, so congrats on getting one right.

But hey, thanks for sharing your "thoughts". Next time you can probably go ahead and save it for the peanut gallery though.

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Old
06-17-2012, 12:46 AM
  #1079
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Yeah I do find it funny that people say Oshie looked bad at center because he definitely didn't. In fact I remember almost everyone saying that he was impressive. Now, I have no idea whether he could do it over an 82-game season - that's definitely a legitimate question, but Oshie wasn't out of place in the few games he was there.

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Old
06-17-2012, 04:50 AM
  #1080
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definately not out place he just needs better conditioning to play that position. His game is fine no matter where he plays.

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Old
06-17-2012, 05:15 AM
  #1081
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Originally Posted by Prussian_Blue View Post
In two seasons, Cracknell will be 28 years old. If he doesn't become an NHL regular before then, I doubt he ever will...

Release the ( Cracknell )

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Old
06-17-2012, 05:31 AM
  #1082
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Originally Posted by Chojin View Post
The latest from Strickland has the Blues trying to resign Langenbrunner, Jackman, and Nichol, but letting Arnott, Colaiacovo, and Porter go to free agency, none of which is particularly surprising.
I'm not a fan of Strickland articles, a flip flopper.

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06-17-2012, 05:48 AM
  #1083
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Originally Posted by Mike Liut View Post
agree, especially after I hear it was Arnott's knee that was limiting him late in the season and the playoffs and not him simply running out of gas. Very solid 3rd line center.
I like Arnott and would like to bring him back as our 3rd line Center, very solid then plug Sobotka in as the 4th line center.

That leaves Nichol on the out. And I hate to see Porter go, what little we saw of him he did provided energy.

I also would like to see Langenbrunner back. Versitle, does what is asked from the coaching staff.

And for the love of Hockey if Jackman comes back, please as a 3rd defensive Pairing. Thank you very much.

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06-17-2012, 05:53 AM
  #1084
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for post 100 I'm sure you are all like me chomping at the bit for the Draft, Trades and Free Agency to start. I trust Armstrong's decisions.

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Old
06-17-2012, 09:42 AM
  #1085
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Just curious if you guys think adding Dags to our 1st rounder would be enough to move up a couple of spots (maybe to wsh 16th) for a shot at Girgensons or Gaunce if they are still on the board come that time?

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06-17-2012, 09:53 AM
  #1086
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Originally Posted by Blanick View Post
Just curious if you guys think adding Dags to our 1st rounder would be enough to move up a couple of spots (maybe to wsh 16th) for a shot at Girgensons or Gaunce if they are still on the board come that time?
I don't think so. I don't think D'Agostini will move you up 9 spots.

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Old
06-17-2012, 10:22 AM
  #1087
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Originally Posted by tfriede2 View Post
I don't think so. I don't think D'Agostini will move you up 9 spots.
yeah I kinda figured, I just really want Girgs and we could have three solid two way centers for the future. What do you think we would have to add to the 25th to jump up 9-10 spots (which is about where I would expect him to go)

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Old
06-17-2012, 10:28 AM
  #1088
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Originally Posted by Blanick View Post
yeah I kinda figured, I just really want Girgs and we could have three solid two way centers for the future. What do you think we would have to add to the 25th to jump up 9-10 spots (which is about where I would expect him to go)
Girgensons would be great....but I'm not sure what we'd have to give up to move up 10 spots...perhaps our 25th plus next year's 1st rounder? It'd be a pretty hefty price, I think. Or maybe our 25th, our 2nd, and one of our 3rds...something like that.

Draft night will definitely be fun though...hopefully there will be a lot of trades/action.

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Old
06-17-2012, 12:25 PM
  #1089
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Originally Posted by BleedBlue1967 View Post
I'm not a fan of Strickland articles, a flip flopper.
You know, when information surfaces that is does not support your previous beliefs, you're *supposed* to reconsider them.

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Old
06-17-2012, 12:35 PM
  #1090
Randall Ritchey
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What about Grachev as the third line center? He proved that he can play in a bottom six role. He'd have Steen and likely Tarasenko on his wings.
He played center a ton in junior and in the AHL. He played wing in Peoria but I wouldn't mind giving him a shot as our 3C spot.

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Old
06-17-2012, 12:44 PM
  #1091
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Originally Posted by Randall Ritchey View Post
What about Grachev as the third line center? He proved that he can play in a bottom six role. He'd have Steen and likely Tarasenko on his wings.
He played center a ton in junior and in the AHL. He played wing in Peoria but I wouldn't mind giving him a shot as our 3C spot.
Might as well give him a chance if they can't go out and get another center in FA. See how he does in camp then go from there, I'd rather it be Grachev than McRae or Sobotka if we're filling this internally. (assuming Arnott is gone)

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06-17-2012, 01:32 PM
  #1092
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Originally Posted by Randall Ritchey View Post
What about Grachev as the third line center? He proved that he can play in a bottom six role. He'd have Steen and likely Tarasenko on his wings.
He played center a ton in junior and in the AHL. He played wing in Peoria but I wouldn't mind giving him a shot as our 3C spot.
I don't think that's very likely at all. He's been converted to wing and more importantly, I just don't see him as a very good option at all. He's a fringe NHLer at this point IMO so I think he's a longshot to make the team in camp at this point so I just don't think he's a likely option for the 3rd line C spot at this time. If the job is filled internally, Sobotka would be a much better 3rd line C IMO than Grachev...although I'd prefer to keep Sobotka on wing for now and use him at C only when one of the top 3 centers is injured.

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Old
06-17-2012, 03:44 PM
  #1093
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Originally Posted by Randall Ritchey View Post
What about Grachev as the third line center? He proved that he can play in a bottom six role. He'd have Steen and likely Tarasenko on his wings.
He played center a ton in junior and in the AHL. He played wing in Peoria but I wouldn't mind giving him a shot as our 3C spot.
You can't just "give it a go". A player makes his way onto the roster when he A) plays well enough to earn it or B) is next on the depth chart when a guy ahead of him gets injured. Clearly, A hasn't happened, and he has a couple of guys ahead of him on the depth chart (namely Cracknell and McRae), so barring severe misfortune at C, Grachev isn't going to get a shot.

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06-17-2012, 06:34 PM
  #1094
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Grachev hasn't shown the ability to score or set up his linemates on The NHL level, to allow The Blues to roll 3 offensive lines (3rd being a 2-way line), to my taste. If Grachev is going to centre Tarasenko and Steen, I'm afraid he'd hurt their scoring chances by being a significantly weaker link in their 2-way game.

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Old
06-17-2012, 06:40 PM
  #1095
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Originally Posted by Robb_K View Post
Grachev hasn't shown the ability to score or set up his linemates on The NHL level, to allow The Blues to roll 3 offensive lines (3rd being a 2-way line), to my taste. If Grachev is going to centre Tarasenko and Steen, I'm afraid he'd hurt their scoring chances by being a significantly weaker link in their 2-way game.
But he has shown the ability to play a strong defensive game and add a little bit of muscle to what-ever line he's on.

Think of him as a Dallas Drake on the Turgeon-Young line or Mellanby on the Demitra-Walt line way back when. Obviously there is a level of difference, but the theory is the same.

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Old
06-17-2012, 07:03 PM
  #1096
Randall Ritchey
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Originally Posted by kimzey59 View Post
But he has shown the ability to play a strong defensive game and add a little bit of muscle to what-ever line he's on.

Think of him as a Dallas Drake on the Turgeon-Young line or Mellanby on the Demitra-Walt line way back when. Obviously there is a level of difference, but the theory is the same.

Exactly. He was on the fourth line with Nichol and Reaves mostly when he played. Obviously this is contingent of us not signing a 3rd line center and him performing well at camp.

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06-17-2012, 07:05 PM
  #1097
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Originally Posted by kimzey59 View Post
But he has shown the ability to play a strong defensive game and add a little bit of muscle to what-ever line he's on.

Think of him as a Dallas Drake on the Turgeon-Young line or Mellanby on the Demitra-Walt line way back when. Obviously there is a level of difference, but the theory is the same.
If Grachev doesn't show a little more offensive ability than before, I'd rather see Sobotka in that position (but he's ALSO weaker at producing offence there than I'd really like). I think The Blues have to add a 2-way ("scoring") centre from outside, to replace the loss of Arnott. I don't think McRae is ready to fill hat role, and Grachev must improve greatly over last season to fill it.

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Old
06-17-2012, 07:40 PM
  #1098
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Jokinen DOES put up a lot of points and could be had for rather cheap. You can pretty comfortably pencil him in for 20g-35a any given season. Better production than Arnott at this stage in their careers. If we can't pick up Suter, he would be a pretty decent way to spend a few million for our vacant center spot.


Last edited by letmesleep: 06-17-2012 at 07:49 PM.
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Old
06-17-2012, 07:48 PM
  #1099
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Jokinen DOES put up a lot of points and could be had for rather cheap. You can pretty comfortable pencil him in for 20g-35a any given season. Better production than Arnott at this stage in their careers. If we can't pick up Suter, he would be a pretty decent way to spend a few million for our vacant center spot.
Jokinen also doesn't play much defense, has some issues with his work ethic and has a very low compete level.
He'd have to be willing to play for less than 2.5 mil before I'd really consider him as an option. I'd almost consider Jokinen a PP specialist instead of a legit top 9 forward.

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06-17-2012, 07:51 PM
  #1100
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Originally Posted by kimzey59 View Post
Jokinen also doesn't play much defense, has some issues with his work ethic and has a very low compete level.
He'd have to be willing to play for less than 2.5 mil before I'd really consider him as an option. I'd almost consider Jokinen a PP specialist instead of a legit top 9 forward.
You just described a more productive version of Arnott. Last season, Arnott didn't even play center defensively, it was Sobotka playing that role. I don't think Jokinen should be our first choice, but he will be someone who could fill Berglund's spot, if Berglund doesn't take the next step forward.

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