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Old
06-17-2012, 07:56 PM
  #1101
kimzey59
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
You just described a more productive version of Arnott. Last season, Arnott didn't even play center defensively, it was Sobotka playing that role. I don't think Jokinen should be our first choice, but he will be someone who could fill Berglund's spot, if Berglund doesn't take the next step forward.
Arnott's work ethic and compete level are beyond reproach.

Jokinen is younger and a bit more talented, but he takes a lot of nights off and doesn't even come close to providing the grit and leadership that Arnott did. Offensively Jokinen might slide in easily for Arnott but everything else about Jokinen's game is the polar opposite of what Arnott brought to the table.

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06-17-2012, 08:14 PM
  #1102
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Originally Posted by kimzey59 View Post
Arnott's work ethic and compete level are beyond reproach.

Jokinen is younger and a bit more talented, but he takes a lot of nights off and doesn't even come close to providing the grit and leadership that Arnott did. Offensively Jokinen might slide in easily for Arnott but everything else about Jokinen's game is the polar opposite of what Arnott brought to the table.
I was meaning more playing style, but yeah you are right about the work eithic, compete level, and leadership. Maybe having a chance at winning would change him.

Another thing that I don't like about Jokinen is his faceoff ability. I'd like to get someone who could be an ace in offensive situations. Someone besides McDonald.

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06-17-2012, 08:14 PM
  #1103
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I'd rather pick up a better all-around player than Jokinen. Scoring, alone, with relatively poor defence, and an intermittent (at best) and not-so-strong physical game, is not going to help The Blues. They need to add scoring, AND size, AND physical game, AND speed, AND puck control. I know that's a tall order. But, I don't want to see Subotka as the 3rd line centre and Nichol as the 4th.

Jokinen would probably have to play on the 2nd line (due to his weak defence), pushing Berglund to the 3rd line.

I'd rather see a 2-way centre picked up, even if he scores less than Jokinen (but significantly better on offence than Sobotka). But, really, I'd rather have them pick up a better scorer than Jokinen, who can also play decent defence, to play on the 2nd line, bumping Berglund down to Line 3.

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Old
06-17-2012, 08:36 PM
  #1104
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Originally Posted by Robb_K View Post
I'd rather pick up a better all-around player than Jokinen. Scoring, alone, with relatively poor defence, and an intermittent (at best) and not-so-strong physical game, is not going to help The Blues. They need to add scoring, AND size, AND physical game, AND speed, AND puck control. I know that's a tall order. But, I don't want to see Subotka as the 3rd line centre and Nichol as the 4th.

Jokinen would probably have to play on the 2nd line (due to his weak defence), pushing Berglund to the 3rd line.

I'd rather see a 2-way centre picked up, even if he scores less than Jokinen (but significantly better on offence than Sobotka). But, really, I'd rather have them pick up a better scorer than Jokinen, who can also play decent defence, to play on the 2nd line, bumping Berglund down to Line 3.
I don't think there is such a guy like that on the free agent market. I don't think there is even a guy like that that is even semi-available for trade without giving up pieces that we can't afford to give up.

Even with Jokinen's downsides, I still think he represents a net gain over Arnott. Arnott is definitely the better character player (there is no doubt about that), but Jokinen is the better point producer and he is younger (thus less likely to have his production fall). Arnott, on the other hand, is getting slower and had a bit of a falling out with the organization in the off-season.

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06-17-2012, 08:54 PM
  #1105
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Originally Posted by Robb_K View Post
Grachev hasn't shown the ability to score or set up his linemates on The NHL level, to allow The Blues to roll 3 offensive lines (3rd being a 2-way line), to my taste. If Grachev is going to centre Tarasenko and Steen, I'm afraid he'd hurt their scoring chances by being a significantly weaker link in their 2-way game.
Grachev hasn't shown the ability to score at the AHL level either. His best goal totals came three yrs ago in Hartford where he scored 16. In 39 games in Peoria, he managed 3 goals and 7 assists.

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Old
06-17-2012, 10:26 PM
  #1106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robb_K View Post
I'd rather pick up a better all-around player than Jokinen. Scoring, alone, with relatively poor defence, and an intermittent (at best) and not-so-strong physical game, is not going to help The Blues. They need to add scoring, AND size, AND physical game, AND speed, AND puck control. I know that's a tall order. But, I don't want to see Subotka as the 3rd line centre and Nichol as the 4th.

Jokinen would probably have to play on the 2nd line (due to his weak defence), pushing Berglund to the 3rd line.

I'd rather see a 2-way centre picked up, even if he scores less than Jokinen (but significantly better on offence than Sobotka). But, really, I'd rather have them pick up a better scorer than Jokinen, who can also play decent defence, to play on the 2nd line, bumping Berglund down to Line 3.
Yes. Yes. Yes. Frankly, I want the Blues to bring in a top center, pushing Backes to 2 and Berglund to 3, but I know that isn't likely to happen. So I would be thrilled with a center that can push Berglund down to 3.

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Old
06-17-2012, 10:28 PM
  #1107
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I'm not a fan of Jokinen on or off the ice. Besides the various on ice reasons why he'd be a bad idea, he's been said to be a locker room cancer at a number of stops. That's not what this team needs at all. Oh, and he'll likely cost way too much for a team that also has to find a way to pay for Petro's partner, raises to Oshie, Perron, etc.

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Old
06-17-2012, 11:09 PM
  #1108
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Originally Posted by bluemandan View Post
Yes. Yes. Yes. Frankly, I want the Blues to bring in a top center, pushing Backes to 2 and Berglund to 3, but I know that isn't likely to happen. So I would be thrilled with a center that can push Berglund down to 3.
This is what I'd like to see, too. But I'd settle for a guy that fits in between Berglund/Backes on the depth chart, too. Don't ask me who that is, I'm expecting Armstrong to figure that out.

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06-17-2012, 11:31 PM
  #1109
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Originally Posted by 2 Minute Minor View Post
This is what I'd like to see, too. But I'd settle for a guy that fits in between Berglund/Backes on the depth chart, too. Don't ask me who that is, I'm expecting Armstrong to figure that out.
My thoughts exactly. I'm sure he and his staff have a much better idea of who would fit, and who is available than I do.

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Old
06-18-2012, 12:40 AM
  #1110
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I really wonder how much interest the Blues have in Suter. There's no doubt in my mind that they'll at least kick the tires and somewhat explore the option on July 1st. What I'm curious about is if they're serious enough about him to really go after him and give him a realistic offer, or if they're just going to focus on other FA defensemen.

There are so many factors involved, and management could be cautious of handing out a big contract when we've got big contracts coming up in the next 2 years in Pietrangelo and Shattenkirk.

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Old
06-18-2012, 02:40 AM
  #1111
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Originally Posted by Linus View Post
I really wonder how much interest the Blues have in Suter. There's no doubt in my mind that they'll at least kick the tires and somewhat explore the option on July 1st. What I'm curious about is if they're serious enough about him to really go after him and give him a realistic offer, or if they're just going to focus on other FA defensemen.

There are so many factors involved, and management could be cautious of handing out a big contract when we've got big contracts coming up in the next 2 years in Pietrangelo and Shattenkirk.
I think if he's interested in us, we'll be interested in him.

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Old
06-18-2012, 11:11 AM
  #1112
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^

That's how I feel as well. If Suter expresses genuine interest in the Blues then I think they will go after him heavily, we do meet all the supposed criteria. Midwest, smaller market, contender (we're better than MIN, COL, and DET at this point.) I still think he signs in DET personally but one can hope.

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06-18-2012, 11:29 AM
  #1113
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Someone on the main board just posted that Jackman has signed a 3 year deal...So are they going with Cole or did ownership give them the okay to spend?

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Old
06-18-2012, 11:35 AM
  #1114
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Originally Posted by CarvinSigX View Post
Someone on the main board just posted that Jackman has signed a 3 year deal...So are they going with Cole or did ownership give them the okay to spend?
Jax took a home-town discount (3 years, $9.5 million, $3.166 million AAV), so I think we're still good to go for free agency.

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Old
06-18-2012, 11:37 AM
  #1115
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Originally Posted by CarvinSigX View Post
Someone on the main board just posted that Jackman has signed a 3 year deal...So are they going with Cole or did ownership give them the okay to spend?
I think this contract says that Armstrong and Stillman had a little conversation and Stillman probably told him that a big money UFA isn't in the cards until the financial house is in order.

If Armstrong wants to acquire what we all want he'll have to get creative and trade dollar for dollar.

This is Army's way of hedging against not acquiring a dmen with the surplus of good forwards at his disposal. Though I think he will.

Certainly a LD of Jackman, Cole, and Russell isn't exactly championship caliber on paper.

But under the circumstances, Army continues to prove he's very thrifty. That's a pretty good contract especially without having to give him a 4th year.

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06-18-2012, 11:47 AM
  #1116
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well now we can stop speculating about Suter. there's no way they can tie up that much money in the D. i figured if they were going to have a chance with Suter, the other spot would have to be filled by someone VERY cheap.

i'd say Cole is the #6 and a cheap veteran is brought in to be #7.

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06-18-2012, 12:08 PM
  #1117
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Originally Posted by sdaltons View Post
well now we can stop speculating about Suter. there's no way they can tie up that much money in the D. i figured if they were going to have a chance with Suter, the other spot would have to be filled by someone VERY cheap.

i'd say Cole is the #6 and a cheap veteran is brought in to be #7.
Russell - Polak is our third pairing, so Cole is either going to partner Pietrangelo, be the #7 guy or be traded. I still wouldn't be surprised if we made a serious run at Garrison.

One thing that is surprising with the Jackman contract is how the money is structured. When I head 3y/$9.5m I was expecting something like $4m/$2.75m/$2.75m. It is strange.


Steen - Backes - Oshie (@~$4m)
McDonald - Berglund - Tarasenko (@~$3.75m)
Perron (@~$3.75m) - ????? - Stewart
Crombeen - Sobotka - Reaves
D'Agostini/Schwartz

????? - Pietrangelo
Jackman - Shattenkirk
Russell - Polak
Cole

Halak
Elliott

That is just under $46.5m plus bonuses in actual salary for next season, with 2 spots to fill. Considering that Halak, Elliott, Polak, Sobotka and Backes are all getting salary bumps in 2013/14, plus all RFA's we'll need to sign (AP, Shatty, Russell, Berglund, Stewart, Cole, D'Agostini) then our spending is going to have to see a very significant rise. Maybe we will see attempts to offset that in the Oshie and Perron deals.

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Old
06-18-2012, 12:20 PM
  #1118
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Originally Posted by Alklha View Post
Russell - Polak is our third pairing, so Cole is either going to partner Pietrangelo, be the #7 guy or be traded. I still wouldn't be surprised if we made a serious run at Garrison.

One thing that is surprising with the Jackman contract is how the money is structured. When I head 3y/$9.5m I was expecting something like $4m/$2.75m/$2.75m. It is strange.


Steen - Backes - Oshie (@~$4m)
McDonald - Berglund - Tarasenko (@~$3.75m)
Perron (@~$3.75m) - ????? - Stewart
Crombeen - Sobotka - Reaves
D'Agostini/Schwartz

????? - Pietrangelo
Jackman - Shattenkirk
Russell - Polak
Cole

Halak
Elliott

That is just under $46.5m plus bonuses in actual salary for next season, with 2 spots to fill. Considering that Halak, Elliott, Polak, Sobotka and Backes are all getting salary bumps in 2013/14, plus all RFA's we'll need to sign (AP, Shatty, Russell, Berglund, Stewart, Cole, D'Agostini) then our spending is going to have to see a very significant rise. Maybe we will see attempts to offset that in the Oshie and Perron deals.
You're way overestimating what Tarasenko is going to be making. His salary is supposedly around $800k and I don't think he got tons of bonuses.

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06-18-2012, 12:26 PM
  #1119
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Originally Posted by Chojin View Post
You're way overestimating what Tarasenko is going to be making. His salary is supposedly around $800k and I don't think he got tons of bonuses.
I'm pretty sure that is the cap hit of a max entry level deal. The player never hits all the bonus's in general so it's normally considerably less in real dollars.

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06-18-2012, 12:56 PM
  #1120
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Originally Posted by Alklha View Post
Russell - Polak is our third pairing, so Cole is either going to partner Pietrangelo, be the #7 guy or be traded. I still wouldn't be surprised if we made a serious run at Garrison.
forgot about Garrison. you could be on to something there

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Old
06-18-2012, 01:21 PM
  #1121
Alklha
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Originally Posted by Chojin View Post
You're way overestimating what Tarasenko is going to be making. His salary is supposedly around $800k and I don't think he got tons of bonuses.
As HooliganX2 said, $3.75m is the caphit of the maximum entry deal for a 2010 pick, and I expect that is probably what he is going to sign. When talking about actual dollars, you are right, it will only be $900,000 and everything else is bonuses (of which the Blues are only liable for $850,000 of, the League would pay the remaining $2m if he hit them), and that was factored in when coming up with the $46.5m in actual salary for next season.

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Old
06-18-2012, 01:53 PM
  #1122
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forgot about Garrison. you could be on to something there
It is a very long shot, but I wouldn't completely rule out Suter either. As mentioned above, we'll talk to him on July 1, and if he does show a real interest in St. Louis then I think we'll make a serious run at him. We aren't spending a huge amount of money next season, so we have the space for him. The problem is 2013 onwards, but we'd have a year to work out the appropriate plans for that.

I don't expect it, but you never know.

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Old
06-18-2012, 01:54 PM
  #1123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Armstrong
"To say that you want to find a player to play with Petro ... Petro can play with anybody," Armstrong said. "We want to find a top-four defenseman. Whether (that top-four defenseman) plays with (Kevin Shattenkirk), whether he plays with (Pietrangelo), whether he plays with Roman. If we could add one player that we feel really comfortable about being in the four, then we really feel good about our group." (Link)
This sounds like they want to add someone in free agency. These quotes were before the Jackman signing, though, so that might change things. Worst case scenario, imo, is striking out in free agency and re-signing Colaiacovo because of the familiarity. I don't think Armstrong would do that though.

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Old
06-18-2012, 02:21 PM
  #1124
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On the primary trade board the Dallas fans have indicated they may very well have a fire sale and the possibility of Mike Ribeiro has been thrown around.

I would do this trade, 5/year or not:

D'Ags + Ponich + 3rd


Instantly solves our center issue, Ribeiro played well for Tippett and I suspect would for Hitchcock. While I would prefer someone larger, he does play larger than he is and while I would prefer more of a goal scorer for the Blues way they play their centers, his offensive skill is enough that he could very likely be the sort of center that would turn around Stewart.

Just some thoughts...

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Old
06-18-2012, 02:39 PM
  #1125
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Something I just thought of is that alot of our posters seem to have our top two lines locked in as

Perron-Backes-Oshie
McDonald-Berglund-Tarasenko

now what I just noticed is that line 1 is all rightys and line 2 is all lefties. I just do not see how that is going to work. I don't think Hitch is going to break up Backes and Oshie after the season they had last year and I really think McDonald with Tarasenko could be lethal together. So maybe Hitch will try McDonald as #2C and move Berglund down. Also we wouldnt have to start Schwartz in Peoria and could have our top 9 set already to put all our focus on a dman partner for Petro

Steen-Backes-Oshie (L,R,R)
Perron-McDonald-Tarasenko (R,L,L)
Schwartz-Berglund-Stewart (L,L,R)

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