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is this the year...... when the LA Kings pass us in the standings?

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06-17-2012, 01:09 PM
  #151
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Originally Posted by Megan Foxs Thumbs View Post
Regardless of the Kings winning the cup, they were mediocre for 90% of the regular season. They couldn't score more than 2 goals in a game it seemed like. It wasn't until Sutter and Carter arrived that they turned it on. This thread is still irrelevant in that context. Would we fans like to see the Wings be bigger and more aggressive (both in terms of physicality and forechecking/winning puck battles?) Of course.

Kings lose a couple more regular season games to Calgary or Dallas or Colorado ,etc. and this thread looks silly.
Well that's the point of a trade deadline, isn't it? You make moves to improve your team. After the Kings got Carter they were dominant late in the season. So they weren't losing to crappy teams like Calgary, Dallas or Colorado. The only time they struggled was closing out the season against the Sharks. Now if they played the Sharks that might have been an interesting series. While they didn't play San Jose they did blow the doors off the #1, #2 and #3 seeds.

We sat on our thumbs at the trade deadline. Sure, mention that big trade for Kyle Quincey. Game. Changer. The Kings gambled big sending off Jack Johnson and they were rewarded with a championship. That would be like us trading Niklas Kronwall. I'm not saying we should trade Kronwall given our lack of depth on defense, just pointing out what a big gamble it was.

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06-17-2012, 04:31 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
Well that's the point of a trade deadline, isn't it? You make moves to improve your team. After the Kings got Carter they were dominant late in the season. So they weren't losing to crappy teams like Calgary, Dallas or Colorado. The only time they struggled was closing out the season against the Sharks. Now if they played the Sharks that might have been an interesting series. While they didn't play San Jose they did blow the doors off the #1, #2 and #3 seeds.

We sat on our thumbs at the trade deadline. Sure, mention that big trade for Kyle Quincey. Game. Changer. The Kings gambled big sending off Jack Johnson and they were rewarded with a championship. That would be like us trading Niklas Kronwall. I'm not saying we should trade Kronwall given our lack of depth on defense, just pointing out what a big gamble it was.
They didn't need Johnson now or in the future. It was trading from a position of strength to upgrade an area of weakness.

We would do the same, but unfortunately our area of strength is 4th liners/ guys who should be in the AHL. I don't think Columbus would've wanted Emmerton and Mursak for Carter.

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06-17-2012, 05:19 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Megan Foxs Thumbs View Post
They didn't need Johnson now or in the future. It was trading from a position of strength to upgrade an area of weakness.

We would do the same, but unfortunately our area of strength is 4th liners/ guys who should be in the AHL. I don't think Columbus would've wanted Emmerton and Mursak for Carter.
Is that a serious response?
Did it have to be Carter? Could it have been Nyquist? Could we have moved Kindl and a first for an impact player?

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06-17-2012, 06:42 PM
  #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Is that a serious response?
Did it have to be Carter? Could it have been Nyquist? Could we have moved Kindl and a first for an impact player?
Honestly? Probably not.

Kindl and a late 1st doesn't get an impact player. A late first gets Gaustad. Kindl has the worth of... maybe a 3rd round pick? Grossmann, a far more established shutdown defender, got a 2nd and a 3rd. Kindl wouldn't even get you that much.

So you're talking a late 1st and a 3rd. Impact player? I don't think that does it.

If you want an impact guy, you'll have to dangle Smith or a more respected prospect like Jurco. From the roster, Filppula is the only realistic trading chip that could return anything of significance. White, perhaps, could have some suitors. If Quincey has a big year, he could get some value. Same with Ericsson. But right now that would be selling low on those two guys.

Personally I'd probably look at trading White, since I don't think he fits into the Wings long-term.

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06-17-2012, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megan Foxs Thumbs View Post
They didn't need Johnson now or in the future. It was trading from a position of strength to upgrade an area of weakness.

We would do the same, but unfortunately our area of strength is 4th liners/ guys who should be in the AHL. I don't think Columbus would've wanted Emmerton and Mursak for Carter.
Oh I think trading Kronwall would have given us a good shot at Carter. Lots of people were concerned about Carter given his history but Kronwall would have filled the same need as Johnson does for the Blue Jackets. Hell, Kronwall is a better player than Johnson right now. Going forward, who knows, but Kronwall would have given us a great shot at Carter.

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06-17-2012, 07:12 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
Oh I think trading Kronwall would have given us a good shot at Carter. Lots of people were concerned about Carter given his history but Kronwall would have filled the same need as Johnson does for the Blue Jackets. Hell, Kronwall is a better player than Johnson right now. Going forward, who knows, but Kronwall would have given us a great shot at Carter.
But this ignores the fact that Carter wanted to play with Richards. Period. Those guys were best friends and pissed they got split up in the first place.

It's a Bromance! You can't split it up.


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06-17-2012, 07:30 PM
  #157
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But this ignores the fact that Carter wanted to play with Richards. Period. Those guys were best friends and pissed they got split up in the first place.

It's a Bromance! You can't split it up.

Oh, I'm sure offering up Jiri Hudler's collection of Ed Hardy shirts would have made Carter forget his bromance with Richards. But then he'd probably sulk if we didn't renew Hudler' contract.

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06-17-2012, 07:32 PM
  #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
Oh I think trading Kronwall would have given us a good shot at Carter. Lots of people were concerned about Carter given his history but Kronwall would have filled the same need as Johnson does for the Blue Jackets. Hell, Kronwall is a better player than Johnson right now. Going forward, who knows, but Kronwall would have given us a great shot at Carter.
and how would that make our defense look now?

Jonathan Ericsson would arguably be our #1 defenseman

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06-17-2012, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by ricky0034 View Post
and how would that make our defense look now?

Jonathan Ericsson would arguably be our #1 defenseman
Did you happen to notice our defense during the Nashville series? Ryan Suter and Justin Schultz cannot get here quick enough.

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06-17-2012, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
Did you happen to notice our defense during the Nashville series? Ryan Suter and Justin Schultz cannot get here quick enough.
Our D actually looked pretty good. They minimized chances and kept the play in the Nashville end most of the game. It was the offense that failed that series.

The D only allowed 23 shots per game. That was the lowest of the entire playoffs. Nashville was extremely opportunistic with the handful of quality chances they got.

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06-17-2012, 08:33 PM
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Our D actually looked pretty good. They minimized chances and kept the play in the Nashville end most of the game. It was the offense that failed that series.

The D only allowed 23 shots per game. That was the lowest of the entire playoffs. Nashville was extremely opportunistic with the handful of quality chances they got.
I'm just hoping we can get the centerpiece of that Nashville defense that shut our offense down. Completely.

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06-17-2012, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Is that a serious response?
Did it have to be Carter? Could it have been Nyquist? Could we have moved Kindl and a first for an impact player?
I'm just saying that LA had no need for Johnson where as the example of us offering Kronwall is a non-starter because we knew Stuart was heading out West and Lidstrom is always a question mark.

LA had a surplus of good young puck movers (Doughty, Johnson, Voynov, etc.) We have a surplus of botom 6ers/ fringe NHL forwards.

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06-17-2012, 09:19 PM
  #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megan Foxs Thumbs View Post
I'm just saying that LA had no need for Johnson where as the example of us offering Kronwall is a non-starter because we knew Stuart was heading out West and Lidstrom is always a question mark.

LA had a surplus of good young puck movers (Doughty, Johnson, Voynov, etc.) We have a surplus of botom 6ers/ fringe NHL forwards.
yeah, Kronwall is a non-starter.
But there were ways to get a difference maker, IMO, sometime in the last 14-15 months.

Would have been nice to send Lidstrom out on top.

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06-17-2012, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
yeah, Kronwall is a non-starter.
But there were ways to get a difference maker, IMO, sometime in the last 14-15 months.

Would have been nice to send Lidstrom out on top.
Agree 100%. Kenny trading for Quincey was boneheaded at best. No need or reason for that trade to have transpired. Could have used that 1st on a good prospect next weekend, or to get a difference-making forward.

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06-17-2012, 09:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
yeah, Kronwall is a non-starter.
But there were ways to get a difference maker, IMO, sometime in the last 14-15 months.

Would have been nice to send Lidstrom out on top.
Everybody loves a storybook ending, and by all means if anybody earned one it's Nick but there is a lot more to winning a cup then getting a "difference maker".

Say we got Jeff Carter for example and the rest pans out the way it did. Helm goes down, Cleary's horrible knees, Lidstrom's bum ankle, Datysuk's knee surgery, etc. I highly doubt that acquiring one player would have made the difference between a 5 game flair out and seeing Lidstrom raise the roof one last time.

Furthermore, just because you can make a deal does not mean you should. Jeff Carter is a great player in my estimation but he doesn't belong in Detroit if you ask me. There also are not many "difference makers" available for trade unless you are sending a large overpayment in the first place.

Nearly every trade hurts the team receiving the star unless they are on an expiring contract or have had real issues (Jeff Carter) with the team.

Just curious, in your opinion what difference makers were available for the Red Wings to acquire that would've came at a price that would allow them to win the Cup still?

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06-17-2012, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megan Foxs Thumbs View Post
Agree 100%. Kenny trading for Quincey was boneheaded at best. No need or reason for that trade to have transpired. Could have used that 1st on a good prospect next weekend, or to get a difference-making forward.
That prospect wouldn't be ready for at least one year and probably closer to 3-4. What difference making forward could we have acquired for a 1st? Gaustad. I'd rather have Quincey. AK27? Pahlsson? Moore? I'll take Quincey.

We can't judge that trade until we see what those prospects become and how Quincey plays going forward. It's boneheaded at best to do so.

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06-17-2012, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by ZetterBurger View Post
That prospect wouldn't be ready for at least one year and probably closer to 3-4. What difference making forward could we have acquired for a 1st? Gaustad. I'd rather have Quincey. AK27? Pahlsson? Moore? I'll take Quincey.

We can't judge that trade until we see what those prospects become and how Quincey plays going forward. It's boneheaded at best to do so.
Yeah, I think Quincey was probably close to the best thing we'd have gotten with that pick.

Quincey, I've stated again and again, will be fine for us next season. I'm willing to bet on that.

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06-17-2012, 11:54 PM
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Yeah, I think Quincey was probably close to the best thing we'd have gotten with that pick.

Quincey, I've stated again and again, will be fine for us next season. I'm willing to bet on that.
I hope you're right, but I'm not willing to bet on that, I'm just not that confident. As I said in another thread, seemed Quincey lacked hockey sense more than he did familiarity with the Wings system. Time will tell. I'm rooting for the guy, I've got my fingers crossed, but I can't bring myself to have much in the expectation department.

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06-18-2012, 01:51 AM
  #169
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Originally Posted by ZetterBurger View Post
Everybody loves a storybook ending, and by all means if anybody earned one it's Nick but there is a lot more to winning a cup then getting a "difference maker".

Say we got Jeff Carter for example and the rest pans out the way it did. Helm goes down, Cleary's horrible knees, Lidstrom's bum ankle, Datysuk's knee surgery, etc. I highly doubt that acquiring one player would have made the difference between a 5 game flair out and seeing Lidstrom raise the roof one last time.

Furthermore, just because you can make a deal does not mean you should. Jeff Carter is a great player in my estimation but he doesn't belong in Detroit if you ask me. There also are not many "difference makers" available for trade unless you are sending a large overpayment in the first place.

Nearly every trade hurts the team receiving the star unless they are on an expiring contract or have had real issues (Jeff Carter) with the team.

Just curious, in your opinion what difference makers were available for the Red Wings to acquire that would've came at a price that would allow them to win the Cup still?
I'd have to have a rolodex of every GM in the league to know that.
My preference would have been to sign Erik Cole in the offseason and then make a move at the deadline if necessary.
It's been plain to me that our top six hasn't been up to snuff in recent years.
While Cole is old and expensive, he was a better player than Parise last year for $4M+

There are always moves to be made. And in today's NHL, a GM who isn't getting better is getting worse. There's so much parity that all it takes is that one extra guy to make a line click, and move a bad apple out of the lineup. Finding the right guy isn't a science. It's probably not even an art.

But what I can't see is why we give up a first for a so-so offensive defensemen in Quincey. Especially when Smith can step in and look as good a Quincey that very same day.

Quincey didn't make this team much better than it was with kindl.
And i don't see Quincey, who has serious positional issues, as an adequate replacement for Stuart at all.

I could see Quincey as a replacement for White...But again, White is a righthanded shot. Quincey is a lefty on the right side.

I can see Quincey as part of a very mediocre defense if we don't sign Suter.
And really, that's Q's role in the NHL.
Offensive defenseman on a bad team. IMO, you don't want his defense anywhere near a team with aspirations. He makes Mike Green look like Rod Langway.

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06-18-2012, 07:15 AM
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This is an article about Scotty Bowman's views of the Los Angeles Kings. I translated this part with Google translator from French to English.

http://www.journaldemontreal.com/201...ine-et-gabarit

Quote:
The Los Angeles Kings have almost accomplished the unthinkable.

First beat the top seed, the Vancouver Canucks.

Then beat the second seed, the St. Louis Blues.

Then, to complete the "triple crown", beat third-seeded Phoenix Coyotes. A masterpiece!

How did they accomplish such a feat before taking it in six games against the New Jersey Devils?

It's not that complicated. Talent, a defense alert and able to resume the attack, a guard and a spectacular attack disciplined.

If you make a quick retrospective of events, it always comes to similar conclusions, series after series.

The Kings were smarter than their rivals in the sense that they have never dived in the discipline, yet their style of play could create situations where the contrast is so easy.

The Kings were smarter than their rivals

IN CONTROL

The Kings are impressive. Inevitably, they like to put the opponent in check, but when the reply came, how many times have you seen a player of Kings consider their personal interests rather than those of the team?

Rarely. That's the sign of a visiting team.

That's the sign of a training well prepared, with a game plan tailored to existing staff, and that is why we can only congratulate the work of people behind the bench .

Darryl Sutter and his group were alert at all times.

GOOD MIX

I like this team. She's young, she does not lack resources, she managed to find veterans who, precisely, have largely contributed to the progression of young players in the organization.

I think of Willie Mitchell and Rod Scuderi, two defenders in his thirties, but two defenders who played a very important role in the success of the team.

Not taking anything away to Jonathan Quick. He won the Smythe trophy and he deserved it. Each evening he gave a lot of latitude to its team.

He did not give - oh maybe one or two - of goals placing the Kings in an uncomfortable situation.

In the playoffs, it's amazing how it can transform a team hesitant in training that is not afraid of anything.

AN IMPRESSIVE DEFENSE

This team could be dominant for some years. Anze Kopitar is very young. Dustin Brown also. Mike Richards and Jeff Carter have added depth to the attack of the Kings.

This team has character and relies on a defender out of the ordinary in Drew Doughty.

I admit that this defense of Kings amazed me throughout the playoffs.

The concept developed by coaches impressed me.

As I précisais last week, the Kings have created three pairs of defenders, a right-handed with a left-handed.

Does this team was really crowded in an area? Not often. And there was a reason.

THEY WILL BE COPIED?

The defenders knew so well react in space they occupied it seemed easy for them to resume the attack.

At the same time they created space for the attacker to trigger a targeted attack fast.

Obviously, one can assume that other formations of the National League will try to copy the management of Kings, the philosophy of Dean Lombardi, the director general.

Contrary to some ten years, we can not do this anymore.
He thinks that those defensive pairings having L-R handnesses was really a key part of the succes. That was the exact same thing that I admired during the Kings Cup run.

Like he had in his last team at 2002 Detroit. That was as perfect than it can get, so Scotty decided to retire.

Lidström - Olausson L-R
Fischer - Chelios L-R
Duschene - Dandenault L-R

Kings 2012:

Scuderi - Doughty L-R
Mitchell - Voynov L-R
Martinez - Greene L-R

But what makes that Kings defence really impressive with those handnesses, was those types of defencemen. At the same they had the perfect handnesses, they also were separated defensive-offensive guys at the pairing. The right-handed Doughty and Voynov were the puckmovers at 1-2 pairings and left-handed Martinez was the puck-mover at 3rd pair. And Left-handed Scuderi and Mitchell were the stay-at-homes, as well as right-handed Greene.

Just perfect.

I hope we can build our defence in the future same way. The puck movement with those guys away from the own zone was just phenomenal easy. That same problem has been our killer, the puck staying in our own end.

St. Louis Blues defence goes very near of the Kings example.

They had:

Colaiacovo - Pietrangelo L-R (as a "worst guy that Norris-level Pietrangelo can carry" and Pietrangelo)
Jackman - Shattenkirk L-R (perfect example of defensive-offensive combo)
Russell - Polak L-R (another perfect example of lower pair offensive - defensive)

I really admire these defences. And it won't be a surprice, those defences conceded less goals than any other in the league by a far margin.

Regular season:

1. St. Louis 1.89 GAA
2. Los Angeles 2.07
3. NY Rangers 2.22

***

So what does this mean for the Red Wings?

1. First of all, we have bunch of lefties, that are almost all puck-moving defenders.

Kronwall - XXX
Smith - XXX
Ericsson - White
Quincey
Kindl

2. To get those perfect pairings, we should be getting at least right-handed stay-at-home defencemen by traded or free agency. Preferably two. This would be important also because the loss of Brad Stuart. Somebody has to penalty kill and do it on high level.

3. We have right-handed Ian White to put in one pair. He is kind of hybrid D, not offensive specialist or defensive specialist. But he is a bit of small, so he could be put together with some bigger lefty = Ericsson

Right-handed UFA defencemen:

Cory Sarich, 34 years old, R, 6'4/207lbs
Joe Corvo, 35, R, 6'1/205lbs
Radek Martinek, 36, R, 6'1/203lbs
Kurtis Foster, 30, R, 6'5/226lbs
Milan Jurcina, 29, R, 6'4/240lbs
Steve Staios, 39, R, 6'1/200lbs
Steve Eminger, 28, R 6'1/202lbs
Matt Gilroy, 28, R, 6'2/195lbs
Pavel Kubina, 35, R, 6'4/248lbs
Adrian Aucoin, 38, R, 6'2/208lbs
Michal Roszival, 34, R, 6'2/210lbs
Mike Commodore, 32, R, 6'4/227lbs
Dennis Wideman, 29, R, 6'0/200lbs

The list is kind of weak. If you try to find the best guys from there, I'd took Aucoin, Roszival, Kubina or Sarich. Joe corvo is an offensive hazard, we need defensive guys. Same goes for Foster, Gilroy and Wideman. Martinek, Jurcina and Eminger are too injury prone. Staios is just too old and slow to nowadays league. We've seen Commodore once, I think there's no reason to call him back even though he would fit in the needs.

But are those guys enough good? IMO, Aucoin would be great fit for lover pairs to play with Brendan Smith. Experienced defensive-minded veteran to learn our offensive minded gem.

But the right-handed top-pair guy is missing.

Kronwall - Kubina?/Roszival?
Smith - Aucoin/Sarich?
Ericsson - White
Kindl

Quincey traded for forward or a right-handed defenceman.

This would be best we can get so far.

...until we offer-sheet Shea Weber.

EDIT:

Forgot totally Justin Schultz. Maybe he would be another answer.


Last edited by Henkka: 06-18-2012 at 09:16 AM.
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06-18-2012, 11:11 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
The Los Angeles Kings have almost accomplished the unthinkable.

First beat the top seed, the Vancouver Canucks.

Then beat the second seed, the St. Louis Blues.

Then, to complete the "triple crown", beat third-seeded Phoenix Coyotes. A masterpiece!

How did they accomplish such a feat before taking it in six games against the New Jersey Devils?

It's not that complicated. Talent, a defense alert and able to resume the attack, a guard and a spectacular attack disciplined.

If you make a quick retrospective of events, it always comes to similar conclusions, series after series.

The Kings were smarter than their rivals in the sense that they have never dived in the discipline, yet their style of play could create situations where the contrast is so easy.

The Kings were smarter than their rivals

IN CONTROL

The Kings are impressive. Inevitably, they like to put the opponent in check, but when the reply came, how many times have you seen a player of Kings consider their personal interests rather than those of the team?

Rarely. That's the sign of a visiting team.

That's the sign of a training well prepared, with a game plan tailored to existing staff, and that is why we can only congratulate the work of people behind the bench .

Darryl Sutter and his group were alert at all times.

GOOD MIX

I like this team. She's young, she does not lack resources, she managed to find veterans who, precisely, have largely contributed to the progression of young players in the organization.

I think of Willie Mitchell and Rod Scuderi, two defenders in his thirties, but two defenders who played a very important role in the success of the team.

Not taking anything away to Jonathan Quick. He won the Smythe trophy and he deserved it. Each evening he gave a lot of latitude to its team.

He did not give - oh maybe one or two - of goals placing the Kings in an uncomfortable situation.

In the playoffs, it's amazing how it can transform a team hesitant in training that is not afraid of anything.

AN IMPRESSIVE DEFENSE

This team could be dominant for some years. Anze Kopitar is very young. Dustin Brown also. Mike Richards and Jeff Carter have added depth to the attack of the Kings.

This team has character and relies on a defender out of the ordinary in Drew Doughty.

I admit that this defense of Kings amazed me throughout the playoffs.

The concept developed by coaches impressed me.

As I précisais last week, the Kings have created three pairs of defenders, a right-handed with a left-handed.

Does this team was really crowded in an area? Not often. And there was a reason.

THEY WILL BE COPIED?

The defenders knew so well react in space they occupied it seemed easy for them to resume the attack.

At the same time they created space for the attacker to trigger a targeted attack fast.

Obviously, one can assume that other formations of the National League will try to copy the management of Kings, the philosophy of Dean Lombardi, the director general.

Contrary to some ten years, we can not do this anymore.
finally somebody with reputation in hockey valued the kings efforts. i got really tired of the delusional comments here about the kings cup run.

that analyses is actually that what we have seen during the kings run to the cup. so there is no fluke or conspiracy and the kings were simply better the their opponents.

i hope detroit is doing something useful with their cap space. hudler, lebda and samuelsson are no improvements.

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06-19-2012, 07:31 AM
  #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henkka View Post

He thinks that those defensive pairings having L-R handnesses was really a key part of the succes. That was the exact same thing that I admired during the Kings Cup run.

Like he had in his last team at 2002 Detroit. That was as perfect than it can get, so Scotty decided to retire.

Lidström - Olausson L-R
Fischer - Chelios L-R
Duschene - Dandenault L-R

Kings 2012:

Scuderi - Doughty L-R
Mitchell - Voynov L-R
Martinez - Greene L-R

But what makes that Kings defence really impressive with those handnesses, was those types of defencemen. At the same they had the perfect handnesses, they also were separated defensive-offensive guys at the pairing. The right-handed Doughty and Voynov were the puckmovers at 1-2 pairings and left-handed Martinez was the puck-mover at 3rd pair. And Left-handed Scuderi and Mitchell were the stay-at-homes, as well as right-handed Greene.

Just perfect.

I hope we can build our defence in the future same way. The puck movement with those guys away from the own zone was just phenomenal easy. That same problem has been our killer, the puck staying in our own end.

St. Louis Blues defence goes very near of the Kings example.

They had:

Colaiacovo - Pietrangelo L-R (as a "worst guy that Norris-level Pietrangelo can carry" and Pietrangelo)
Jackman - Shattenkirk L-R (perfect example of defensive-offensive combo)
Russell - Polak L-R (another perfect example of lower pair offensive - defensive)

I really admire these defences. And it won't be a surprice, those defences conceded less goals than any other in the league by a far margin.

Regular season:

1. St. Louis 1.89 GAA
2. Los Angeles 2.07
3. NY Rangers 2.22

***

So what does this mean for the Red Wings?

1. First of all, we have bunch of lefties, that are almost all puck-moving defenders.

Kronwall - XXX
Smith - XXX
Ericsson - White
Quincey
Kindl

EDIT:

Forgot totally Justin Schultz. Maybe he would be another answer.
The two acquisitions on defense I am pushing for would give us the L-R pairings you correctly point out as being important. Check it out:

Kronwall (L) - Suter (R)
Ericsson (L) - White (R)
Smith (L) - Schultz (R)

The awesome thing is Ericsson is the lone defensive defenseman. Every other guy is a true puck mover. I feel confident about our chances with Suter, if we can also lock down Schultz our defense will be in very good shape.

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06-19-2012, 08:18 AM
  #173
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Originally Posted by fimoknete View Post
i hope detroit is doing something useful with their cap space. hudler, lebda and samuelsson are no improvements.
Does anyone think that?

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06-20-2012, 07:45 PM
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i am afraid ken holland believes this.

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06-20-2012, 07:56 PM
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i am afraid ken holland believes this.
He might, but I guarantee you the Ilitch family doesn't, and they hold the checkbook.

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