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Old
06-17-2012, 09:28 PM
  #26
tomcat24
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I would like to land both smith and Foligno. Don't know what else it would take, though. But a bottom 6 of: Foligno-Bolland-Shaw and Carcillo-Smith-Hayes\Bollig would be great

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06-17-2012, 10:00 PM
  #27
HawksTillDeath
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I assume Hjalmarsson will get traded

If thats the price - i'm going to be PISSED

I don't know exactly what we need in return or what we can get
but i'm looking more for a bonafide center

at least the Hjalmarsson for Gagner rumours made more sense

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06-17-2012, 10:46 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by HawksTillDeath View Post
I assume Hjalmarsson will get traded

If thats the price - i'm going to be PISSED

I don't know exactly what we need in return or what we can get
but i'm looking more for a bonafide center

at least the Hjalmarsson for Gagner rumours made more sense
How does that make sense?

Gagner is awful center and last thing we need

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06-17-2012, 11:13 PM
  #29
HawksTillDeath
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
How does that make sense?

Gagner is awful center and last thing we need
Most sense if the fact that we are getting more than a #4 C - that maybe is better suited for wing

I'm not saying Gagner is my mold of a #2 C - but its easy to saw that its more value than Zach Smith

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06-17-2012, 11:14 PM
  #30
HawksTillDeath
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
How does that make sense?

Gagner is awful center and last thing we need
The last thing we need is a 4th line center
those can easily be picked up in FA

as least with Gagner we can flip him for a top 2 line PF or something of more value than a 4th line player

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06-17-2012, 11:18 PM
  #31
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Adding Gagner makes a soft team even softer. That's the wrong way to go IMO.

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06-17-2012, 11:27 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
A better idea would have been.

Not sign Oduya sign Suter
Not sign Oduya sign Jackman or Allen
Not sign Oduya promote Olsen
Not sign Oduya = sign another smaller "puck moving" D-man who can't play in his own zone.
Not sign Oduya... PERIOD. To do so was a dreadful decision by Stan.

If Hammer goes, it has to be for a dman that can match his defence, including the blocked shots. I don't know why he is so underrated by Hawk fans but that is not the case when it comes to the viewpoints of Q or Stan. I doubt Hammer goes anywhere, unless a no brainer offer comes our way.

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Old
06-18-2012, 12:27 AM
  #33
Sevanston
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Chris Kuc @ChrisKuc
Not sure why, but I checked into the Niklas Hjalmarsson trade rumors. Don't expect that to happen at this point. #Blackhawks

https://mobile.twitter.com/ChrisKuc/...01514893467648

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Old
06-18-2012, 12:51 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by BobbyJet View Post
Not sign Oduya... PERIOD. To do so was a dreadful decision by Stan.

If Hammer goes, it has to be for a dman that can match his defence, including the blocked shots. I don't know why he is so underrated by Hawk fans but that is not the case when it comes to the viewpoints of Q or Stan. I doubt Hammer goes anywhere, unless a no brainer offer comes our way.
Didn't someone post the stat when Oduya signed that he had almost as many blocked shots as Hammer? Pretty sure someone did.

The Hawks were outstanding after Oduya was added. He wasn't very good in the post-season.. so what? You'd have to trade more than half the team if we're talking about guys that didn't play anywhere close to their potential against Phoenix.

Oduya made the team better down the stretch. If they didn't sign Odyua, they would have signed someone of that elk for more.. you know why? Because Chicago still needs a more experienced PMD until Leddy gets more experience.

People are so concerned with who Chicago's going to bring in/trade/trade for.. what they should be worried about is whether or not this team will be properly coached on how to play defense and how to break out of the zone, as a 5-man unit. Those are the Hawks two most pressing problems.. not the PP, not the PK, not goaltending and not Johnny Oduya.

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Old
06-18-2012, 01:09 AM
  #35
DontToewzMeBro
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Bickell - Toews - Kane
Beach - Sharp - Hossa
Saad - Bolland - Stalberg
Smith - Kruger -Shaw
Mayers

Keith/Oduya
Suter/Seabrook
Leddy/Monty

Crawford
Bernier

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Old
06-18-2012, 01:18 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
Didn't someone post the stat when Oduya signed that he had almost as many blocked shots as Hammer? Pretty sure someone did.

The Hawks were outstanding after Oduya was added. He wasn't very good in the post-season.. so what? You'd have to trade more than half the team if we're talking about guys that didn't play anywhere close to their potential against Phoenix.

Oduya made the team better down the stretch. If they didn't sign Odyua, they would have signed someone of that elk for more.. you know why? Because Chicago still needs a more experienced PMD until Leddy gets more experience.

People are so concerned with who Chicago's going to bring in/trade/trade for.. what they should be worried about is whether or not this team will be properly coached on how to play defense and how to break out of the zone, as a 5-man unit. Those are the Hawks two most pressing problems.. not the PP, not the PK, not goaltending and not Johnny Oduya.
Hammer had more and that was in a bunch less games too.

The problem with that is that many players that underperformed in the playoffs were already signed, in fact, only Oduya wasn't and yet he was retained. Additionally, Oduya was the absolute worst Hawk d man, it wasn't like he underperformed, he was just plain awful. Also, many of our underperformers proved in the past that they can, Oduya hasn't.

Oduya is the 4th best PMD on this team and if he wasn't resigned someone else would've been? Yes, exactly, someone who doesn't suck. There are FAs out there this year that are better, fill more roles, and are abotu equal in cost to Oduya.

But I will agree coaching needs to be addressed more than anything.

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Old
06-18-2012, 01:35 AM
  #37
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Still see Hjammer being moved soon

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Old
06-18-2012, 09:45 AM
  #38
digdug41982
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Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
Didn't someone post the stat when Oduya signed that he had almost as many blocked shots as Hammer? Pretty sure someone did.

The Hawks were outstanding after Oduya was added. He wasn't very good in the post-season.. so what? You'd have to trade more than half the team if we're talking about guys that didn't play anywhere close to their potential against Phoenix.

Oduya made the team better down the stretch. If they didn't sign Odyua, they would have signed someone of that elk for more.. you know why? Because Chicago still needs a more experienced PMD until Leddy gets more experience.

People are so concerned with who Chicago's going to bring in/trade/trade for.. what they should be worried about is whether or not this team will be properly coached on how to play defense and how to break out of the zone, as a 5-man unit. Those are the Hawks two most pressing problems.. not the PP, not the PK, not goaltending and not Johnny Oduya.
Your coaching theory is going to be null and void if we give up Hammer for Smith. This is roster is getting very close to non-playoff calibre.

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Old
06-18-2012, 09:50 AM
  #39
clydesdale line
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Originally Posted by tomcat24 View Post
I would like to land both smith and Foligno. Don't know what else it would take, though. But a bottom 6 of: Foligno-Bolland-Shaw and Carcillo-Smith-Hayes\Bollig would be great
Would be a fantastic trade if we got Foligno also. Hell, I'd deal Stalberg to them to sweeten it and I like Viktor. The Sens love Swedes and are one of the few teams who still has plenty of grit left to deal.

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06-18-2012, 09:53 AM
  #40
digdug41982
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Originally Posted by clydesdale line View Post
Would be a fantastic trade if we got Foligno also. Hell, I'd deal Stalberg to them to sweeten it and I like Viktor. The Sens love Swedes and are one of the few teams who still has plenty of grit left to deal.
Hammer + Stalberg for Foligno and Smith. We get bent over and *****. What the hell were you thinking when you wrote your post?

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06-18-2012, 09:59 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
Hammer + Stalberg for Foligno and Smith. We bent over and *****. What the hell were you thinking when you wrote your post?
Obviously Hammer straight up for Smith isn't in the cards. If you actually think it was, you weren't thinking straight. Obviously Ottawa has to add (high draft pick, another player/whatever). But have you seen Nick play? Very underrated and fills a desperate need for this team (I personally believe he'll thrive playing with Hossa or Bolland and is actually younger than Stalberg). Him + Smith together actually gives the Hawks some ****ing balls in our top 9, something not seen since the cup year.


Last edited by clydesdale line: 06-18-2012 at 10:14 AM.
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Old
06-18-2012, 10:14 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by BobbyJet View Post
Not sign Oduya... PERIOD. To do so was a dreadful decision by Stan.

If Hammer goes, it has to be for a dman that can match his defence, including the blocked shots. I don't know why he is so underrated by Hawk fans but that is not the case when it comes to the viewpoints of Q or Stan. I doubt Hammer goes anywhere, unless a no brainer offer comes our way.
Oduya >> Hjalmarsson

Oduya blocks shots like Hammer
Oduya is far better offensively and moving the puck
Oduya hits just as little as Hammer does
Hammer is only slightly better defensively, if at all

And I like Hammer.

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Old
06-18-2012, 10:17 AM
  #43
digdug41982
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Originally Posted by clydesdale line View Post
Obviously Hammer straight up for Smith isn't in the cards. If you actually think it was, you weren't thinking straight. Obviously Ottawa has to add (high draft pick, another player/whatever). But have you seen Nick play? Very underrated and fills a desperate need for this team (I personally believe he'll thrive playing with Hossa or Bolland and is actually younger than Stalberg). Him + Smith together actually gives the Hawks some ****ing balls in our top 9, something not seen since the cup year.
I like the way they play but I firmly believe we are a worse team after that 2 for 2 trade. Hammer cannot go, periord. I don't even like our D that much with him still here. Take him out of the equation and it is a major weakness that we will not overcome and it could cost us a playoff spot. We should be giving up our 1st + another pick and/or prospect for those two from Ottawa, not subtracting vital pieces from the roster.

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Old
06-18-2012, 10:20 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
Oduya >> Hjalmarsson

Oduya blocks shots like Hammer
Oduya is far better offensively and moving the puck
Oduya hits just as little as Hammer does
Hammer is only slightly better defensively, if at all

And I like Hammer.
You really believe that?

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06-18-2012, 10:33 AM
  #45
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I'd be curious to know what the "+" was in this deal, ie, what else along with Smith would the Hawks get? Smith alone is not enough.

I'd deal Hammer, but only if I knew that I could find a Dman to replace what he does elsewhere. If Stan is thinking that he's gonna deal Hammer to *take a shot* on a FA, it's pretty risky because he could be left empty-handed on July 1.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if Hammer was not a Hawk this time next week.

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06-18-2012, 10:34 AM
  #46
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Oduya is better than Montador, Leddy, and Olsen. The latter two being kids.

Hjalmarsson is a top 4 Dman, Oduya is a bottom 3rd pairing guy and has been for years

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Old
06-18-2012, 10:37 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
Oduya >> Hjalmarsson

Oduya blocks shots like Hammer
Oduya is far better offensively and moving the puck
Oduya hits just as little as Hammer does
Hammer is only slightly better defensively, if at all

And I like Hammer.
As I said .... I don't know why he (Hammer) is so underrated by Hawk fans. He certainly is no Seabrook, but he can be quite physical (much more than Oduya for sure). Does Oduya block shots? NOT. I don't mind JO as a player in the right circumstance, but he simply was not a good fit for our current defensive corps. We didn't need a Keith light. We needed a Seabrook light then, and we still do. Now, if Hammer does get traded, and Stan doesn't bring in a PHYSICAL dman to replace him, we get worse. As I've said in other posts, Stan seems to think bringing the same style of player into the fold that are already here, will make us better. He ignores, it seems, the fact that you need different types of players to make a good team. I'm sick of this team getting pushed around and outmuscled for pretty much every loose puck, especially in our end of the ice. Can't Stan see that?

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Old
06-18-2012, 10:40 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
Oduya >> Hjalmarsson

Oduya blocks shots like Hammer
Oduya is far better offensively and moving the puck
Oduya hits just as little as Hammer does
Hammer is only slightly better defensively, if at all

And I like Hammer.
Wow, just don't know where to begin.

First of all, with shot blocking, Hammer is far superior. People like to compare the number of blocks each had this year, and it's kind of close, but people forget Hammer missed some games and was on pace to block the most shots on the team, he would'e been top 15 in the league. Oduya is not even close.

Oduya is NOT far better offensively than Hammer. Oduya does have a better breakout pass than Hammer, that's true. But in the offensive zone they are actually about equal. Oduya has more poise in the zone I'd argue he has tools are less good than Hammer's. Keep in mind, Oduya only had three more points this year than Hammer (again, Hammer was on pace for about the same). The myth of Oduya being some offensive dynamo is just silly, he can sometimes make good break out passes. However, he is also prone to really bad turnovers and sucks under pressure.

Hitting =/= tough play. See the thing is while Hammer may not hit that much he DOES play the boards, battle for pucks and clear the front of the net MUCH more effectively than Johnny Oduya. It's really not even close. His positioning is better and he's just simply a far better defensive player who can handle his own in the d zone.

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Old
06-18-2012, 11:09 AM
  #49
digdug41982
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Oduya's breakout pass is not as good as Hammer's because it goes to the other team far too often. At least Hammer gets it out of the zone the vast majority of the time.

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Old
06-18-2012, 11:14 AM
  #50
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I was hesitant to say so because Hammer's also tends to ice the puck a lot although he is getting better at that. But Oduya's is very accurate, it always hits the man, the problem is that it could be any player, our team or not.

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