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CBJ-PHI (Rick Nash rumors and proposed deals; update: traded to NYR, July 23)

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Old
06-18-2012, 12:27 AM
  #176
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Wait guys....


I just had a major breakthrough in the logicverse...

Has anyone considered the possibility that we may be trying to trade for Rick Nash in an effort to acquire him and then turn around a flip him for weber? It would make sense. The preds and the flyers have long had a good business relationship, and the preds wouldn't want weber to go in the division, but have long been rumored to have strong interest in Nash.

Could this be?

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06-18-2012, 12:34 AM
  #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
Wait guys....


I just had a major breakthrough in the logicverse...

Has anyone considered the possibility that we may be trying to trade for Rick Nash in an effort to acquire him and then turn around a flip him for weber? It would make sense. The preds and the flyers have long had a good business relationship, and the preds wouldn't want weber to go in the division, but have long been rumored to have strong interest in Nash.

Could this be?
That would be really shady on our part, it's likely we would not be able to make a trade with Columbus for a long while after that as well as not being fair to Nash as he would have to waive to come here.

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06-18-2012, 12:41 AM
  #178
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Originally Posted by PALE PWNR View Post
That would be really shady on our part, it's likely we would not be able to make a trade with Columbus for a long while after that as well as not being fair to Nash as he would have to waive to come here.
...this is really grounding for me.

Thanks for bursting my philosophical bubble.

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06-18-2012, 12:53 AM
  #179
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
...this is really grounding for me.

Thanks for bursting my philosophical bubble.
Well, on the other hand if any GM has the balls to do it it would be ours, but I personally just don't see it. I also really think whatever package for Nash/Weber is given up ends up being more valuable for Nashville anyway. They are a team that could use more of an offensive punch and have a glut of prospect defensemen chomping at the bit to get on the ice.

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06-18-2012, 01:23 AM
  #180
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I want for 1 game for there to be a Pronger-Weber pairing. If its more then one game I'm ok with that too

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06-18-2012, 07:04 AM
  #181
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
Wait guys....


I just had a major breakthrough in the logicverse...

Has anyone considered the possibility that we may be trying to trade for Rick Nash in an effort to acquire him and then turn around a flip him for weber? It would make sense. The preds and the flyers have long had a good business relationship, and the preds wouldn't want weber to go in the division, but have long been rumored to have strong interest in Nash.

Could this be?
As was stated above, it would be an evil move on Holmgren's part if he traded for Nash, only to send him to a Weber-less Nashville team.

I'm sure that the only way this can get done without Homer giving himself a terrible reputation among NHL players is a 3-way trade and without Weber in Nashville, Nash would veto the trade knowing that the Preds defense just got much weaker.

I just don't see them trading JVR at all unless its for defense. At this point, Homer is going to give himself a bad reputation and have trouble getting players to commit if he just ships them out after one year of a new contract. At least by trading JVR for defense tells the world that we are trading him for a need and not greed.

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06-18-2012, 08:36 AM
  #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
Wait guys....


I just had a major breakthrough in the logicverse...

Has anyone considered the possibility that we may be trying to trade for Rick Nash in an effort to acquire him and then turn around a flip him for weber? It would make sense. The preds and the flyers have long had a good business relationship, and the preds wouldn't want weber to go in the division, but have long been rumored to have strong interest in Nash.

Could this be?


Nash has a full NMC. If Howson can't convince him to even put Nashville on the list now, how is that going to change (for the better) if we try to use Nash to pry Weber out of Nashville? That would DECREASE the likely Nash would want to play there.

1 - If Weber is available, the Flyers will forget Rick Nash exists.

2 - If Weber is not available, the Flyers might move for Nash to put a star on Giroux's wing. Carle gets re-signed in this scenario.

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06-18-2012, 08:43 AM
  #183
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Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post


Nash has a full NMC. If Howson can't convince him to even put Nashville on the list now, how is that going to change (for the better) if we try to use Nash to pry Weber out of Nashville? That would DECREASE the likely Nash would want to play there.

1 - If Weber is available, the Flyers will forget Rick Nash exists.

2 - If Weber is not available, the Flyers might move for Nash to put a star on Giroux's wing. Carle gets re-signed in this scenario.
Im pretty sure if you have a NTC or NMC and agree to waive it, it's no longer in affect for the new team

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06-18-2012, 08:44 AM
  #184
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Originally Posted by El Emperor View Post
As was stated above, it would be an evil move on Holmgren's part if he traded for Nash, only to send him to a Weber-less Nashville team.

I'm sure that the only way this can get done without Homer giving himself a terrible reputation among NHL players is a 3-way trade and without Weber in Nashville, Nash would veto the trade knowing that the Preds defense just got much weaker.

I just don't see them trading JVR at all unless its for defense. At this point, Homer is going to give himself a bad reputation and have trouble getting players to commit if he just ships them out after one year of a new contract. At least by trading JVR for defense tells the world that we are trading him for a need and not greed.
I think I'm lost in this conversation...is the suggestion that the "evil" would be to Columbus or Nash? By most accounts, Columbus was prepared to take the return for Nash from Nashville, even though it meant dealing him in division. I don't see why they would necessarily care if we flipped him back there.

Nash, on the other hand, will almost certainly insist that whatever team he waives to go to agree (in writing) to abide by his NTC (which will be voided by any trade). So if he wouldn't accept a trade to Nashville before, I don't see why he would now. If he is willing to move there, then I don't see how it is doing him and wrong.

What am I missing?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
Im pretty sure if you have a NTC or NMC and agree to waive it, it's no longer in affect for the new team
This is correct--with a caveat. They player can insist that the new team observe the clause as a condition of the trade, as far as I know.

EDIT: Perhaps you are right, though. Perhaps it is just an "unofficial" observation of the clause, but it doesn't' actually become active in the contract?

I'm not clear here. They can't renegotiate the contract, so if the provision automatically becomes void, then presumably there is no way to activate it again afterward.

Can someone clarify?


Last edited by Jack de la Hoya: 06-18-2012 at 09:05 AM.
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Old
06-18-2012, 09:03 AM
  #185
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Im pretty sure if you have a NTC or NMC and agree to waive it, it's no longer in affect for the new team
I think I remember that during the whole Carter saga last year.

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06-18-2012, 09:06 AM
  #186
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I think I remember that during the whole Carter saga last year.
If your traded before NMC, NTC kicks in it expires, in this case Nash would have full NTC

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06-18-2012, 09:18 AM
  #187
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If your traded before NMC, NTC kicks in it expires, in this case Nash would have full NTC
In other words, Nash would retain the clause and the right to waive it selectively because it is already in place?

That would make sense.

I still don't understand why it expired for Carter--as opposed to automatically kicking in for the new team on the same day, but that's another issue entirely.

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06-18-2012, 09:31 AM
  #188
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Obviously I'm aware that the notion is pretty unrealistic, as Nash would have to waive to be traded to the flyers, and we'd pretty much be giving him a giant middle finger.

All I'm saying is that it's not THAT far fetched

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06-18-2012, 09:35 AM
  #189
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
Obviously I'm aware that the notion is pretty unrealistic, as Nash would have to waive to be traded to the flyers, and we'd pretty much be giving him a giant middle finger.

All I'm saying is that it's not THAT far fetched
You aren't following.

As far as we can tell, Nash would still be able to veto a trade to Nashville from Philadelphia.

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06-18-2012, 09:40 AM
  #190
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You aren't following.

As far as we can tell, Nash would still be able to veto a trade to Nashville from Philadelphia.
The team has the right to abolish all NTC/NMC when they acquire a player. Usually though they will pick up the clauses in the contract. The Kings said they would keep Richards clauses in his contract when they traded for him. The team has the right to say yes or no.

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06-18-2012, 09:43 AM
  #191
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
The team has the right to abolish all NTC/NMC when they acquire a player. Usually though they will pick up the clauses in the contract. The Kings said they would keep Richards clauses in his contract when they traded for him. The team has the right to say yes or no.
...maybe--we aren't sure about that (the possibility that the team can only abolish it if it hasn't kicked in yet is another possibility).

BUT--even if you are correct, Nash has the right to insist that the team pick up the clause as a condition of agreeing to waive his NTC / NMC. There's literally zero reason that he wouldn't do so.

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06-18-2012, 09:54 AM
  #192
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Three way trade?

To Cls:

JVR
Voracek
2012 1st
2013 2nd and 3rd

To Nsh:
Rick Nash

To Phl
Shea Weber

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06-18-2012, 09:59 AM
  #193
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Three way trade?

To Cls:

JVR
Voracek
2012 1st
2013 2nd and 3rd

To Nsh:
Rick Nash

To Phl
Shea Weber
That's an absurdly good deal for Columbus, and Nashville probably gets a bit of a shaft (Weber > Nash). You would probably need to redirect some of the PHI-CBJ assets to Nashville.

For us? Meh. I have concerns about dealing JVR and Voracek + for Weber--but I don't particularly care if they end up in Nashville or Columbus.

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06-18-2012, 10:23 AM
  #194
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Forget Nash...he always seemed to me like he was going to wind up in NY. Hopefully, NY thins themselves out a bit if they do acquire him..if not Nash could be the difference for NY and for the Flyers he would be known as Gnash...as in teeth gnashing..

Quote:
Dustin Leed via twitter: From separate sources, they said that the Rangers will end up trading for Rick Nash.

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06-18-2012, 11:04 AM
  #195
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I think the NTC follows him even after a trade. The difference between him and Richards and Carter was that theirs hadn't kicked in yet. I think LA allowed Richards to keep his but not sure if Columbus allowed his to be kept and even if they did, I think LA would also have to allow it. Neither of them would have it in effect till July 1 of this year.

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06-18-2012, 11:35 AM
  #196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
The team has the right to abolish all NTC/NMC when they acquire a player.
Only if they have not taken effect yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
The team has the right to say yes or no.
See above. In the case of Nash, he would have to waive his NTC twice in order to land in Nashville via Phila since his NTC is already binding.

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06-18-2012, 11:44 AM
  #197
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Howson looking to commit Grand Theft after being on the other end his entire career

More reason to forget about Nash...Howson really looks desperate to right the wrongs of his GM career with this pending trade...good luck to him but a sucker is born every minute..he should know that. Hopefully, Holmgren doesn't bite.

Quote:
Details have been filtering out over the last few days about exactly what Howson wants in return for Rick Nash and his contract, which costs $7.8 million against the cap for the next six seasons (and more than that in real life, because the deal is actually back-loaded).

And oh boy, is it ever insane.

Howson wants — and this is apparently a true fact — two good roster players (i.e. presumably not salary dumps) and two high-quality prospects. Speculation is that the Rangers are the front-runners, as they were at the trade deadline, the only other time of year when GMs get anywhere close to this nutty. You'll recall that, at the time, Nash was available for a presumptive asking price of Brandon Dubinsky, Chris Kreider, either Derek Stepan or Carl Hagelin, and either Michael Del Zotto or Ryan McDonagh. And with as many as five or six other teams in the running for Nash, which is far more than the number seen at the trade deadline, Howson might just find someone unwise enough to meet his demands.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...YfcjqPyv97vLYF

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06-18-2012, 11:57 AM
  #198
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More reason to forget about Nash...Howson really looks desperate to right the wrongs of his GM career with this pending trade...good luck to him but a sucker is born every minute..he should know that. Hopefully, Holmgren doesn't bite.
It's a lot like DuPont Circle around here...

I've yet to see a report out of _Columbus_ that suggests they are expecting to get back 4-5 NHL players under the age of 23. That is all from Brooks--but it has been perpetuated to the point that it turns up in every Google search, so places keep running with it.

From the Rangers, according to most of their fans / writers / etc., Columbus wants:

Kreider or Stepan or MDZ or McDonagh (of which only MDZ or Kreider are even possible options)
a Prospect (anywhere from Miller to Erixon to C. Thomas, etc.)
a 1st rounder
...and they have to take Brandon Dubinsky, who has some value, to be sure, but also serves as a cap dump.

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06-18-2012, 12:06 PM
  #199
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You aren't following.

As far as we can tell, Nash would still be able to veto a trade to Nashville from Philadelphia.
...yes I know, why would you believe that i'm not following that?

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06-18-2012, 12:14 PM
  #200
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...yes I know, why would you believe that i'm not following that?
Because you said that we would be giving him a "giant middle finger" by trading him... implying that trading him would somehow be against his will or without his consent.

If he were to be traded, it would be because he decided hat Nashville was at least as attractive a destination as staying in Philadelphia. That being the case, why would he be offended?

It doesn't matter. Like you said, it's a bit far-fetched. If anything, it would simply be a straight three-way deal in which all parties were aware, from the start, about what was happening.

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