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Old
06-18-2012, 01:02 AM
  #226
Ron
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capn Brown View Post
What would be a good offer for E. Kane? Bernier, Toffoli, Martinez, 1st rounder? Too much? Not enough?
Way too much.

We keep Martinez, for sure.

Here's the story in Winnipeg. Very revealing and interesting comments about his relationship with the citizens of Winnipeg.

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...ate-with-jets/

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Old
06-18-2012, 02:14 AM
  #227
Moses Doughty
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I don't get why people say Loki can't replace Stoll as a 3rd liner? Loktionov, like Stoll, would NEVER have to play against the other team's top offensive units. Stoll played against 2nd or 3rd lines generally. Kopitar and Richards are the guys Sutter will use against those guys. Heck, Fraser's line is more than capable of handling the job as they have shown. Resign Penner and Fraser, dump Stoll and replace him with Loki. Make that 3rd line a skill oriented line. Give him a scoring winger and a big body with good hands and Loktionov will be very impressive. Stoll is a great faceoff guy but you don't give a guy nearly 3 million to play on the 3rd line to take faceoffs.

Also make a serious run at Parise, we will have the room to fit him if the cap goes up only a little. If we sign him....

Brown-Kopitar-Parise
Penner-Richards-Carter
Williams-Loktionov-King
Gagne-Fraser-Lewis
Nolan, Richardson

That's a heck of a forward core.

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Old
06-18-2012, 02:16 AM
  #228
savemefromtears
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@Rusty Batch

You seem to be under the impression that by typing out a lot of words that I'm going to somehow argue with you, or, better yet, agree with you.

Once again, let's state those avowals of yours:
* Nash doesn't have a bad contract
* Richards a 3rd line center on steroids
* We shouldn't re-sign Stoll, Fraser, or Scuderi next season
* Faceoffs aren't important
* Boards battles are irrelevant
* Stoll's role is/was not important


Check that out. I can bold words AND sentences, too.

We live in a salary cap world, Scuderi isn't a UFA next season, and those bolded sentences are mighty impressive.


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Old
06-18-2012, 02:52 AM
  #229
Rusty Batch
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Originally Posted by savemefromtears View Post
@Rusty Batch

You seem to be under the impression that by typing out a lot of words that I'm going to somehow argue with you, or, better yet, agree with you.

Once again, let's state those avowals of yours:
* Nash doesn't have a bad contract
* Richards a 3rd line center on steroids
* We shouldn't re-sign Stoll, Fraser, or Scuderi next season
* Faceoffs aren't important
* Boards battles are irrelevant
* Stoll's role is/was not important


Check that out. I can bold words AND sentences, too.

We live in a salary cap world, Scuderi isn't a UFA next season, and those bolded sentences are mighty impressive.

okay...

ill go one by one. If you wish to respond then do so.

Quote:
Nash doesn't have a bad contract
If its bad then how come so many teams are willing to give up a ton of talent in order to aquire it? It is safe to say that someone will aquire him via trade soon and whoever does will pay not only his contract but also pay a hefty price tag in talent.

Do you understand???

A "Bad" contract does not hurt a team if they can move it when ever they want to and especially if they can receive significant compensation for it.

Quote:
Richards a 3rd line center on steroids
My point was that Richards Would be a great 3rd line Center? Do you not think so? How is this debatable?

We have 3 excellent centers on this team. We could play all three at center... Philly did it, Pitsburgh does it, etc... Not such a crazy comment and certainly not a knock on Richards.




Quote:
* We shouldn't re-sign Stoll, Fraser, or Scuderi next season
I am more interested in keeping key players or aquiring new key players then resigning mediocre old ones. Since Scuderi is the only one I havent already gone over, keep in mind that he will be another year older, quite expensive and we already have guys like Muzzin and in a couple years Forbort who will likeley be able to fill a defensive roster spot for cheaper.

Quote:
Faceoffs aren't important
I don't believe I said that, My comment was that faceoffs and intangibles do not offset a complete lack of offensive production and a ridiculous amount of minor penalties?

Would it be fair for me to say that you don't think offense or playing shorthanded matter either? No its all relative.

Quote:
Boards battles are irrelevant
See Faceoffs comment.

Quote:
Stoll's role is/was not important
Certainly it is being vastly overrated... 3 (non open net points) in 20 postsason games is nothing to celebrate, not for a player making 3.5 mil ( think thats accurate didnt research the exact number) and for a teamin our situation it is not valuable going forward either.


IF you don't agree with me fine, but lets not pretend my stance is ridiculous.

We have basically won with the mindset that I am suggesting we continue.

We have put the vast majority of our money into our elite players and balanced that out by having most of our bottom six players on cheap or rookie contracts. we have 2 cheap (for now goalies) and 2 bargain young defenseman.

I am simplysuggesting to continue what got us here, by not spending significant ap space on role players when we have cheaper young ones to replace them.

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Old
06-18-2012, 06:33 AM
  #230
Capn Brown
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Originally Posted by Ron View Post
Way too much.

The thing is, Winnipeg will say the opposite. They'd probably insist on Voynov instead of Martinez.

IIRC, Kane is the guy DL coveted in that 2009 draft, but he could not trade up for him.

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Old
06-18-2012, 06:46 AM
  #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron View Post
Here's the story in Winnipeg. Very revealing and interesting comments about his relationship with the citizens of Winnipeg.

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...ate-with-jets/

Ah, OK. I just read this article. It seems the folks up there maybe don't like him?

How about we ship to Winnipeg a bucket of wild cards? Moller, Holloway, Parse, Weal, and a 1st? LoL, would they go for that?

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Old
06-18-2012, 08:22 AM
  #232
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Originally Posted by Moses Doughty View Post
I don't get why people say Loki can't replace Stoll as a 3rd liner? Loktionov, like Stoll, would NEVER have to play against the other team's top offensive units. Stoll played against 2nd or 3rd lines generally. Kopitar and Richards are the guys Sutter will use against those guys. Heck, Fraser's line is more than capable of handling the job as they have shown. Resign Penner and Fraser, dump Stoll and replace him with Loki. Make that 3rd line a skill oriented line. Give him a scoring winger and a big body with good hands and Loktionov will be very impressive. Stoll is a great faceoff guy but you don't give a guy nearly 3 million to play on the 3rd line to take faceoffs.

Also make a serious run at Parise, we will have the room to fit him if the cap goes up only a little. If we sign him....

Brown-Kopitar-Parise
Penner-Richards-Carter
Williams-Loktionov-King
Gagne-Fraser-Lewis
Nolan, Richardson

That's a heck of a forward core.
If the Kings somehow got Parise, Penner wouldn't be back. Gagne won't be on a line like that if he's back and ready to go, whether or not Penner or Parise are here. Where's Clifford? Westgarth? Clifford got hurt early in the playoffs, that's the only reason he didn't play more. The Kings would have to trade, release, or put Westgarth in the minors, and I doubt any of that would happen. He's not worth much in a trade, no point in releasing him since he's a cheap 14th forward, and he's not going to develop at the AHL level.

I figure if Penner, Stoll, and Fraser make it to July 1st unsigned, none of them will be back. If the Kings want any of them, I'm sure negotiations have already started. If they can't agree to anything in the next two weeks, it'll be because there will probably be more money in free agency.

If those three leave, that gets the Kings down to 12 forwards with either a spot locked up, or a spot to lose. There might be 1 free agent signing, and most likely not Parise. Then maybe 1 spot open for a young guy to win in September.

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Old
06-18-2012, 08:30 AM
  #233
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
NAH we can just plug guys in ......Cause that worked sooooo well to start the season right ???

There is a reason Loki spent most of the Sutter tenure on the bench and in the AHL.... He is not ready.

Loki has a lot of work to do.
Sounds like Calgarys board likes Loki there debating there 1st for him. Good to know there is some interest in him.

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Old
06-18-2012, 09:21 AM
  #234
AKAY47
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How amazing would this lineup be:

Parise-Kopitar-Williams
Gagne-Carter-Brown
King-Richards-Lewis
Richardson-Cliche/Fraser-Nolan

YES please.

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Old
06-18-2012, 09:41 AM
  #235
Ron
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capn Brown View Post
Ah, OK. I just read this article. It seems the folks up there maybe don't like him?

How about we ship to Winnipeg a bucket of wild cards? Moller, Holloway, Parse, Weal, and a 1st? LoL, would they go for that?
Look at our draft position, we are already screwed, and you want to give up another 1st round draft pick?

Is your true name George McGuire?

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Old
06-18-2012, 09:55 AM
  #236
johnjm22
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Originally Posted by AKAY47 View Post
How amazing would this lineup be:

Parise-Kopitar-Williams
Gagne-Carter-Brown
King-Richards-Lewis
Richardson-Cliche/Fraser-Nolan

YES please.
That looks great on paper, but Gagne isn't the same player he used to be, and can't be relied on to stay healthy. I'd rather have Penner.

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Old
06-18-2012, 10:19 AM
  #237
AKAY47
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Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
That looks great on paper, but Gagne isn't the same player he used to be, and can't be relied on to stay healthy. I'd rather have Penner.
I don't know about that, Penner was so bad this year. He stepped his game up during the post-season, I wouldn't have him back unless it's under 1.5-2M per.

Gagne's still under contract for next year, so regardless we have to fit him in the top 6, unless he decides to retire (Wouldn't be surprised if he did since he just won the cup and has accomplished almost everything). That might be the best decision for him and that that point, I would agree that re-signing Penner is the best idea.

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Old
06-18-2012, 10:25 AM
  #238
damacles1156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by savemefromtears View Post
@Rusty Batch

You seem to be under the impression that by typing out a lot of words that I'm going to somehow argue with you, or, better yet, agree with you.

Once again, let's state those avowals of yours:
* Nash doesn't have a bad contract
* Richards a 3rd line center on steroids
* We shouldn't re-sign Stoll, Fraser, or Scuderi next season
* Faceoffs aren't important
* Boards battles are irrelevant
* Stoll's role is/was not important


Check that out. I can bold words AND sentences, too.

We live in a salary cap world, Scuderi isn't a UFA next season, and those bolded sentences are mighty impressive.

Not trying to be rude, but I haven't noticed him on the forums before.

Might be new, but it seems he doesn't watch hockey.

Faceoff's Board Battles. Checking, Fore check is what the Kings Are built on.

Loki brings none of that... Yet.

Scuds is not even a Free agent yet.

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Old
06-18-2012, 10:28 AM
  #239
damacles1156
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Originally Posted by AKAY47 View Post
I don't know about that, Penner was so bad this year. He stepped his game up during the post-season, I wouldn't have him back unless it's under 1.5-2M per.

Gagne's still under contract for next year, so regardless we have to fit him in the top 6, unless he decides to retire (Wouldn't be surprised if he did since he just won the cup and has accomplished almost everything). That might be the best decision for him and that that point, I would agree that re-signing Penner is the best idea.
Gagne has had ONE 70+ games season out of the last FIVE.

No idea why people expect him to stay in the lineup next season. Gagne has never played 82 games(Ever), and he has only hit 75+ games three times in his career. If you get 55 to 65 games out of Gagne, that is considered a healthy season for him.

I would rather have Penner at a reduced price, 2.5 to 3m is fine. That is less than what Gagne is making. That is also about a 20 to 30 percent pay cut.


Last edited by damacles1156: 06-18-2012 at 10:44 AM.
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Old
06-18-2012, 10:52 AM
  #240
Rusty Batch
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
Not trying to be rude, but I haven't noticed him on the forums before.

Might be new, but it seems he doesn't watch hockey.

Faceoff's Board Battles. Checking, Fore check is what the Kings Are built on.

Loki brings none of that... Yet.

Scuds is not even a Free agent yet.
I guess if I don't agree with you, then I dont watch Hockey? got it. Great counterpoint.

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Old
06-18-2012, 11:32 AM
  #241
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i know the kings roster is pretty much set...but i would really like to know how winning the cup will affect luring the FA's to LA.

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Old
06-18-2012, 12:06 PM
  #242
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Sounds like Brad Stuart is close to signing with the Sharks.

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Old
06-18-2012, 12:11 PM
  #243
damacles1156
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i know the kings roster is pretty much set...but i would really like to know how winning the cup will affect luring the FA's to LA.
It wont till a couple things happen.

1. The Kings move to the East Coast.

2. The Kings win a few more Cups in the next Five to Ten years.

One Cup after 45 years of below average results is not going to change anyone's minds.

Also Travel is a really big deal to Hockey players. The Ducks won a cup in 2007, it hasn't done anything for them in Free agency.

the Sharks have been close plus the Nucks, it hasn't done anything for them ether.

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06-18-2012, 12:12 PM
  #244
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Id love to see a King-Loktionov-Lewis line go up against the #1 centres in the West when on the road. Loktionov on the ice against Thornton, Hanzal, Benn, Getzlaf, Sedin, Datsyuk, what could possibly go wrong!!!

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Old
06-18-2012, 12:15 PM
  #245
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Id love to see a King-Loktionov-Lewis line go up against the #1 centres in the West when on the road. Loktionov on the ice against Thornton, Hanzal, Benn, Getzlaf, Sedin, Datsyuk, what could possibly go wrong!!!
Hell they would struggle against guys like Bolland, Gaustad, Fisher....

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Old
06-18-2012, 12:54 PM
  #246
Moses Doughty
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If the Kings somehow got Parise, Penner wouldn't be back. Gagne won't be on a line like that if he's back and ready to go, whether or not Penner or Parise are here. Where's Clifford? Westgarth? Clifford got hurt early in the playoffs, that's the only reason he didn't play more. The Kings would have to trade, release, or put Westgarth in the minors, and I doubt any of that would happen. He's not worth much in a trade, no point in releasing him since he's a cheap 14th forward, and he's not going to develop at the AHL level.
Penner would be resigned before July 1st, you can't expect Parise to sign here and then disregard your plan B in place. And Gagne wouldn't fit on any of the other lines over those other top 9 guys. Then again I want playmaker/sniper/powerforward on every line. Gagne would get his PP time anyways.

Clifford could use an AHL year. He struggled all year and I'd like to see him work a bit on his offense instead of play on a crowded 4th line where he'll get rotated out of the lineup. And Westgarth is not needed. Goons are not the types of guys I want on this roster.

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Old
06-18-2012, 01:05 PM
  #247
Capn Brown
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Look at our draft position, we are already screwed, and you want to give up another 1st round draft pick?

Is your true name George McGuire?


Why don't YOU go ahead and post what you think would be good offer for E. Kane. That way I can go ahead and take a dump on you!

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Old
06-18-2012, 01:15 PM
  #248
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We can't afford Kane, we only have prospects to offer, and they would want a centre back i imagine. Teams will offer pieces like Jordan Staal, we can't match that

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06-18-2012, 01:15 PM
  #249
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If I'm a player, I don't sign with a team because of past success. It means almost nothing to me as a player. I would want a team that will be contending for many cups in the future. I think LA has a pretty good chance to do that. Dean sure built a hell of a team.

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Old
06-18-2012, 01:21 PM
  #250
Capn Brown
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We can't afford Kane, we only have prospects to offer, and they would want a centre back i imagine.
It might not be up to Winnipeg. If Kane openly refuses to sign there, Winnipeg might be forced to take the best of a bunch of mediocre options.

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