dw had all the leverage in the universe and still couldn't get a cent knocked off the deal. for people going 'oh it's reasonable', reasonable doesn't win you cups. reasonable wins you reasonable teams that make the playoffs and do nothing later.
you know which GMs are known for fighting for every million and ensuring their roster is maxed out with talent? lombardi and holland and chiarelli. do you know what those guys have that we don't? a friggen cup!!
Not true.
He didn't have leverage. All Stuart had to do was wait for UFA sweeps.
Lombo had extensive negotiations with both Kopitar and Doughty holding out. Both Doughty and Kopitar got very close to their initial asking price. Mitchell got the extra years that he wanted, etc. Lombo hasn't been getting discounts in LA but he has had more contentious negotiations. Holland is handing out cap circumvention contracts like candy. The average number looks good, but his hands will be tied will past certain players' usefulness. I haven't seen any noteworthy discounts in Boston either.
Note the above where I gave the range before the announcement.
They have agents. The agent won't let the client take that much less. The agent has Stuey looking ahead because his next contract, if he gets one, won't be for much. This is likely his last big contract and he has a family with which to be concerned. Look at what has happened to C. White and Hannan.
I am not in favor of the contract because with the style that Stuey plays, I expect him to fall off on performance very soon.
Fair is one thing, but this is a completely unique situation. The player asked to be here, his family is here. His family is probably the only reason why he was even available for free agency. The agent works for the player and all he wanted to do was sign here. We had so much leverage here. It should not have ended in the fair/slight overpayment category. (It looks worse if he has a NTC/NMC). Even if you feel the number is fair now, at his age 35 season (year 3), his play will drop off making it an overpayment like you said. DW got little to no discount for the multiple years, NTC/NMC, or the faith we showed by trading for BS and doing him that favor.
In italics below is what I wrote a friend in an email, so I'm happy.
Guys, lets not forget the cap is going up and he made 3.75M last year... how much more of a discount did we expect him to take? He would have gotten at least 4M on the open market, probably 4.25M.
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So, looks like we’re signing Stuart. I’d be happy if he signs for 3.5M, but I’m hoping for an even 3M--It would not surprise me if we end up paying 4M though.
He didn't have leverage. All Stuart had to do was wait for UFA sweeps.
Stuart has been hinting to the media for an entire year how he wanted to go back to his family, how hard it has been on him and his family, etc etc etc.
Number of teams near his family: 1
Number of dmen we could get through ufa or trade or even our own prospects: lots
There has never been more leverage in all of sports history since the pully was invented. If Stuart wanted to play the UFA card, then well have fun spending the next 3 years of your life away from your family.
Fair is one thing, but this is a completely unique situation. The player asked to be here, his family is here. His family is probably the only reason why he was even available for free agency. The agent works for the player and all he wanted to do was sign here. We had so much leverage here. It should not have ended in the fair/slight overpayment category. (It looks worse if he has a NTC/NMC). Even if you feel the number is fair now, at his age 35 season (year 3), his play will drop off making it an overpayment like you said. DW got little to no discount for the multiple years, NTC/NMC, or the faith we showed by trading for BS and doing him that favor.
DW once again shows his poor negotiating skills.
I don't think it was negotiating skills. If he wanted the player, that was the price and he knew it. If I were DW, I would have said "No thanks." The term is a huge risk.
Players don't override agents that much. The PA will side with agents against the player (warnings have been given to players by the PA) against taking discounts.
I do understand the uniqueness of the situation, but I also understand the weight of other issues to which many here give little import.
In italics below is what I wrote a friend in an email, so I'm happy.
Guys, lets not forget the cap is going up and he made 3.75M last year... how much more of a discount did we expect him to take? He would have gotten at least 4M on the open market, probably 4.25M.
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So, looks like we’re signing Stuart. I’d be happy if he signs for 3.5M, but I’m hoping for an even 3M--It would not surprise me if we end up paying 4M though.
completely agree. He would have made over $4 mil on the open market. Is he worth $1 mil more a season than Murray? Yes? Does he improve our top 4? Yes. Does he improve our PK? Yes. Is the deal completed and announced by the Sharks? No. So do we know the final details (i.e. NMC)? No.
So lets wait for the freak out and DW bashing until we see what the final deal is. Better yet, let's wait to see what DW does at the draft and who's left on the team after...
You guys are acting like we just took a Nash contract on, he's still a top 4 on basically any team in the league and you guys wanted a $1 mil paycut just because he wanted to be with his family.
dw had all the leverage in the universe and still couldn't get a cent knocked off the deal. for people going 'oh it's reasonable', reasonable doesn't win you cups. reasonable wins you reasonable teams that make the playoffs and do nothing later.
you know which GMs are known for fighting for every million and ensuring their roster is maxed out with talent? lombardi and holland and chiarelli. do you know what those guys have that we don't? a friggen cup!!
how did wilson have all the leverage? because stuart said he would like to play in california?
stuart had actually all of the leverage, since he was an ufa, and wilson traded assets to get the chance to talk to him.
the only leverage wilson actually had was that he got to talk to him for 3 weeks before the free agency period that is all.
It all comes down to how he plays. If he stays consistent for the next 3 years then its a good number.
But if he continues to decline is terrible!
In anycase, welcome back Stuey!
He only played badly at the end of the year and I feel he was incredibly distracted by his yearning to be home. I know he's a professional but 6 years of working across the country from his family would be stressful to anyone and I'm sure it finally took its toll on him.
This doesn't really seem like an overpayment for a player we hold the rights to but the fact is that he has been going on and on in the media about wanting to play here and not taking advantage of that situation to get an underpayment for him is a little disappointing.
It's not a bad deal, given the prices UFAs command these days. That said, Stuart has been in decline for the past two seasons. Perhaps his physical style has laid a beating on his body. I don't know.
completely agree. He would have made over $4 mil on the open market. Is he worth $1 mil more a season than Murray? Yes? Does he improve our top 4? Yes. Does he improve our PK? Yes. Is the deal completed and announced by the Sharks? No. So do we know the final details (i.e. NMC)? No.
So lets wait for the freak out and DW bashing until we see what the final deal is. Better yet, let's wait to see what DW does at the draft and who's left on the team after...
Until we know the details of a movement clause, if any, there's no telling if this is fair or not. A full no-move clause puts this deal at an overpayment. DW can give Stuart a partial clause as long as he has options where he doesn't have to ask Stuart's permission.
The problem with the open market argument is that Stuart didn't have or want the open market. His market was limited to basically six teams and I doubt any of them would have shelled out 4 million to him. We're talking SJ, LA, Anaheim, Phoenix, Colorado, and Vancouver. Vancouver is pretty much set on D save for some trades. Phoenix isn't going to pay top dollar to anyone. Colorado, quite frankly, paid a better player in Jan Hejda less. LA and Anaheim are set on D and would need to move better and/or cheaper talent to accommodate Stuart.
