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Winnipeg Jets-Columbus Blue Jackets

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Old
06-15-2012, 07:00 PM
  #51
TSA0402
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So Columbus is a rebuilding team that is losing their two best prospects, and getting older with expiring contracts?

So.. where is the punch line?

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Old
06-15-2012, 07:04 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TSA0402 View Post
So Columbus is a rebuilding team that is losing their two best prospects, and getting older with expiring contracts?

So.. where is the punch line?
They are not rebuilding, they are retooling.

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Old
06-15-2012, 07:44 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Bryzard of Oz View Post
To 99% of teams who would be picking second, he's not.

If you're a team (like Boston was) with the second pick obtained through a trade, a need for a PMD, and if that hole is filled they will be strong contenders for the next couple years, moving it for a mid/late 20s player is a good trade.

If you're a rebuilding team like Columbus (or pretty much everyone picking second), lots of holes, looking to liquidate their top mid/late 20s asset(s) for young players, and a good 3 or 4 years from being a playoff team, that trade is awful.
I wrote the exact same thing in post 42 in case you didn't read it.

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06-15-2012, 07:54 PM
  #54
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My head hurts.

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Old
06-16-2012, 03:49 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viper0220 View Post
To Winnipeg:

Ryan Johansen
2nd pick in 2012


To Columbus:

Tobias Enstrom
Bryan Little
9th pick in 2012
No way Columbus even takes a second look at that. An awful proposal for them. What they give up are the best two assets involved. By far.

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Old
06-16-2012, 03:54 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Huffer View Post
I have nothing against Johansen, but where I can see him having more value than Little, I don't see him with significantly more value than Little. I think he has more value in terms of age and years under team control (which is probably more valuable to Columbus), but Little is the better player right now, and did put up bigger numbers in junior than Johansen. Johansen may end up being better than Little, and he might not.

I'm not saying that the deal works for Columbus age and contract wise, but IMO the value is close. You obviously disagree and that's fine.
Little is not remotely close to Johansens value. Johansen is one of the most coveted young centers in the game. Bryan Little is a borderline top six forward, with no very obvious claim to a better future than that.

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06-16-2012, 04:11 PM
  #57
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So, it's a Winnipeg/Columbus proposal you want, is it?

To Winnipeg:
Rick Nash
#2 overall pick
Steve Mason
Marc Methot

To Columbus:
Evander Kane
Alex Burmistrov
Tobias Enstrom
Ondrej Pavelec
Nikolai Antropov
Chris Thorburn

Why Columbus does it:
In need of retooling/rebuilding, Columbus has three major assets. These are the #2 overall pick, Rick Nash, and Ryan Johansen. If Kane is able to step in on the first line, he has a chance of mostly replacing Nash's offense while continuing to develop. Burmistrov has struggled in his first two years in the NHL. He may become an excellent defensive forward, or he may break through and become a dominant two-way forward. Enstrom adds more offense on the back end, as well as positionally sound but not physical defense. Pavelec would represent an upgrade in net with someone who's been solid but not great to this point. Thorburn is bottom-line depth; he's only in here because I like him. Antropov struggled and might be declining; he'd be a salary dump at this point.

Why Winnipeg does it:
Three of the players on here have expressed discontent in some manner. Kane is rumored to be refusing to re-sign. Pavelec is rumored to be pondering an offer from the KHL, and Burmistrov has been weakly rumored to be doing the same. Their actual trade value is all over the place right now, but it would sink to zero if anyone signed overseas.

Nash is right now what everyone hopes Kane can become: a first-line All-Star caliber forward who can pot 40 goals. Maybe Kane gets there, maybe he doesn't. Burmistrov's offense has been close to nothing in his first two years; Winnipeg wouldn't be losing any current production in his absence. Enstrom struggled and doesn't play a physical game; Methot doesn't generate as much offense, but provides a bit of a nasty edge to the blueline.

And with the #2 overall pick in addition to #9 overall, Winnipeg would have the opportunity to quickly reload with another excellent prospect in the pipeline.

Variables that affect value
- Mason would be a reclamation project right now; he's signed for 1 more year
- Nash is signed for 6 more years
- Methot is signed for 3 more years
- Kane is unsigned
- Pavelec is unsigned
- Burmistrov has 1 year left on his ELC
- Enstrom is a UFA after this coming year

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Old
06-16-2012, 04:13 PM
  #58
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Columbus wins that trade handily IMO.

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Old
06-16-2012, 04:23 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
So, it's a Winnipeg/Columbus proposal you want, is it?

To Winnipeg:
Rick Nash
#2 overall pick
Steve Mason
Marc Methot

To Columbus:
Evander Kane
Alex Burmistrov
Tobias Enstrom
Ondrej Pavelec
Nikolai Antropov
Chris Thorburn

Why Columbus does it:
In need of retooling/rebuilding, Columbus has three major assets. These are the #2 overall pick, Rick Nash, and Ryan Johansen. If Kane is able to step in on the first line, he has a chance of mostly replacing Nash's offense while continuing to develop. Burmistrov has struggled in his first two years in the NHL. He may become an excellent defensive forward, or he may break through and become a dominant two-way forward. Enstrom adds more offense on the back end, as well as positionally sound but not physical defense. Pavelec would represent an upgrade in net with someone who's been solid but not great to this point. Thorburn is bottom-line depth; he's only in here because I like him. Antropov struggled and might be declining; he'd be a salary dump at this point.

Why Winnipeg does it:
Three of the players on here have expressed discontent in some manner. Kane is rumored to be refusing to re-sign. Pavelec is rumored to be pondering an offer from the KHL, and Burmistrov has been weakly rumored to be doing the same. Their actual trade value is all over the place right now, but it would sink to zero if anyone signed overseas.

Nash is right now what everyone hopes Kane can become: a first-line All-Star caliber forward who can pot 40 goals. Maybe Kane gets there, maybe he doesn't. Burmistrov's offense has been close to nothing in his first two years; Winnipeg wouldn't be losing any current production in his absence. Enstrom struggled and doesn't play a physical game; Methot doesn't generate as much offense, but provides a bit of a nasty edge to the blueline.

And with the #2 overall pick in addition to #9 overall, Winnipeg would have the opportunity to quickly reload with another excellent prospect in the pipeline.

Variables that affect value
- Mason would be a reclamation project right now; he's signed for 1 more year
- Nash is signed for 6 more years
- Methot is signed for 3 more years
- Kane is unsigned
- Pavelec is unsigned
- Burmistrov has 1 year left on his ELC
- Enstrom is a UFA after this coming year
It's funny that for all the recent talk about Kane, Burmistrov and Pavelec expressing discontent, I've yet to hear from any of their mouths that they are unhapppy in Winnipeg. In fact all of them, multiple times, have stated publicly that they love playing here. Of the 3, the only one that I think might be less than sincere is Kane.

A buddy of mine ran into Burmi and Pavelec at a local establishment. They both gushed about how much fun they've had playing here.

As for your proposal, I'd love Nash as a player but I'm not a fan of his contract. I'd love the 2nd overall. Steve Mason holds negative value to me and Methot is okayish as a 4/5. Overall, not nearly enough for us to essentially gut the team of all our young talent.

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Old
06-16-2012, 06:05 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qvist View Post
Little is not remotely close to Johansens value. Johansen is one of the most coveted young centers in the game. Bryan Little is a borderline top six forward, with no very obvious claim to a better future than that.
How is he not remotely close? Little put up big numbers in junior just like Johansen and is still young. And Little is easily a top 6 forward. He would be one of the top #2C's in the game if the Jets had a #1C to move him down.

Johansen's value is higher than Little's I admitted because Johansen is younger, and still has the "potential" to be a #1C.

But you are doing a disservice to Little here IMO.

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Old
06-16-2012, 06:09 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
So, it's a Winnipeg/Columbus proposal you want, is it?

To Winnipeg:
Rick Nash
#2 overall pick
Steve Mason
Marc Methot

To Columbus:
Evander Kane
Alex Burmistrov
Tobias Enstrom
Ondrej Pavelec
Nikolai Antropov
Chris Thorburn

Why Columbus does it:
In need of retooling/rebuilding, Columbus has three major assets. These are the #2 overall pick, Rick Nash, and Ryan Johansen. If Kane is able to step in on the first line, he has a chance of mostly replacing Nash's offense while continuing to develop. Burmistrov has struggled in his first two years in the NHL. He may become an excellent defensive forward, or he may break through and become a dominant two-way forward. Enstrom adds more offense on the back end, as well as positionally sound but not physical defense. Pavelec would represent an upgrade in net with someone who's been solid but not great to this point. Thorburn is bottom-line depth; he's only in here because I like him. Antropov struggled and might be declining; he'd be a salary dump at this point.

Why Winnipeg does it:
Three of the players on here have expressed discontent in some manner. Kane is rumored to be refusing to re-sign. Pavelec is rumored to be pondering an offer from the KHL, and Burmistrov has been weakly rumored to be doing the same. Their actual trade value is all over the place right now, but it would sink to zero if anyone signed overseas.

Nash is right now what everyone hopes Kane can become: a first-line All-Star caliber forward who can pot 40 goals. Maybe Kane gets there, maybe he doesn't. Burmistrov's offense has been close to nothing in his first two years; Winnipeg wouldn't be losing any current production in his absence. Enstrom struggled and doesn't play a physical game; Methot doesn't generate as much offense, but provides a bit of a nasty edge to the blueline.

And with the #2 overall pick in addition to #9 overall, Winnipeg would have the opportunity to quickly reload with another excellent prospect in the pipeline.

Variables that affect value
- Mason would be a reclamation project right now; he's signed for 1 more year
- Nash is signed for 6 more years
- Methot is signed for 3 more years
- Kane is unsigned
- Pavelec is unsigned
- Burmistrov has 1 year left on his ELC
- Enstrom is a UFA after this coming year
You really need to let your hatred of Winnipeg go. It's painfully obvious in this post.

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Old
06-16-2012, 08:24 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stej View Post
It's funny that for all the recent talk about Kane, Burmistrov and Pavelec expressing discontent, I've yet to hear from any of their mouths that they are unhapppy in Winnipeg. In fact all of them, multiple times, have stated publicly that they love playing here. Of the 3, the only one that I think might be less than sincere is Kane.

A buddy of mine ran into Burmi and Pavelec at a local establishment. They both gushed about how much fun they've had playing here.

As for your proposal, I'd love Nash as a player but I'm not a fan of his contract. I'd love the 2nd overall. Steve Mason holds negative value to me and Methot is okayish as a 4/5. Overall, not nearly enough for us to essentially gut the team of all our young talent.
To borrow a Mr. Burns phrase, "Three misfortunes, that's possible. Seven misfortunes, there's an outside chance. But nine misfortunes? I'd like to see that!''"

To someone on the outside, hearing KHL rumblings about a player is nothing new; it happens every single year. But when it's someone who's extremely important to his team, and it's more than one player, in addition to someone who is rumored to not want to re-sign when his ELC expires...well, I implore forgiveness for saying it looks a little strange. I'm a CBJ fan; we've been told for the last year that there's obviously an organizational problem because of Filatov (traded last year), Carter (traded this year), and Zherdev (traded in 2008)...three guys all at the same time? That's quite another story.

I'm looking at what Winnipeg would look like going into next year with this deal...Enstrom would be replaced by Methot, but it would also allow Kulda or Postma the chance to stick with the big club (which they currently can't). Hainsey and Byfuglien have NTCs so they're not going anywhere, Bogosian looked like an NHL player this year, Clitsome looked like what he did here, and Stuart is still developing. I can't honestly say that Enstrom is caught in a numbers game; Kulda and Postma are, but would the Jets risk losing Kulda to the KHL if they can't find a way to work him into the lineup? I'm figuring that Jones and Flood aren't coming back, but they were 8 and 9 anyway.

Up front, Kane would be the only current loss (the others being ineffective), and he's being replaced with the best player in the deal anyway. Thorburn is replaceable; call up Klingberg and call it a day. Antropov's minutes can be more effectively used by other players. Burmistrov...it's almost looked like Claude Noel is forced to play him, but doesn't have the confidence in him to be able to give him meaningful minutes. We saw the same thing here with Hitchcock and Filatov; he needs ice time to develop into a dependable NHLer, but can't get ice time because he's not a dependable NHLer.

The most damage, then, would be between the pipes. And that would bring us to the idea of having the #2 and #9. Would Vancouver be willing to move Cory Schneider for #9? Would Los Angeles be willing to move Bernier and another pick for #9? What about Philly with Bobrovsky? That immediately replaces the goalie lost (Pavelec), and there's still the #2 overall pick to work with.

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Old
06-16-2012, 09:15 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
To borrow a Mr. Burns phrase, "Three misfortunes, that's possible. Seven misfortunes, there's an outside chance. But nine misfortunes? I'd like to see that!''"

To someone on the outside, hearing KHL rumblings about a player is nothing new; it happens every single year. But when it's someone who's extremely important to his team, and it's more than one player, in addition to someone who is rumored to not want to re-sign when his ELC expires...well, I implore forgiveness for saying it looks a little strange. I'm a CBJ fan; we've been told for the last year that there's obviously an organizational problem because of Filatov (traded last year), Carter (traded this year), and Zherdev (traded in 2008)...three guys all at the same time? That's quite another story.

I'm looking at what Winnipeg would look like going into next year with this deal...Enstrom would be replaced by Methot, but it would also allow Kulda or Postma the chance to stick with the big club (which they currently can't). Hainsey and Byfuglien have NTCs so they're not going anywhere, Bogosian looked like an NHL player this year, Clitsome looked like what he did here, and Stuart is still developing. I can't honestly say that Enstrom is caught in a numbers game; Kulda and Postma are, but would the Jets risk losing Kulda to the KHL if they can't find a way to work him into the lineup? I'm figuring that Jones and Flood aren't coming back, but they were 8 and 9 anyway.

Up front, Kane would be the only current loss (the others being ineffective), and he's being replaced with the best player in the deal anyway. Thorburn is replaceable; call up Klingberg and call it a day. Antropov's minutes can be more effectively used by other players. Burmistrov...it's almost looked like Claude Noel is forced to play him, but doesn't have the confidence in him to be able to give him meaningful minutes. We saw the same thing here with Hitchcock and Filatov; he needs ice time to develop into a dependable NHLer, but can't get ice time because he's not a dependable NHLer.

The most damage, then, would be between the pipes. And that would bring us to the idea of having the #2 and #9. Would Vancouver be willing to move Cory Schneider for #9? Would Los Angeles be willing to move Bernier and another pick for #9? What about Philly with Bobrovsky? That immediately replaces the goalie lost (Pavelec), and there's still the #2 overall pick to work with.
You've done a decent job of showing that you know our depth chart, but I disagree with your pessimism on Burmi's ability to thrive here. Comparing him to Filatov in Columbus is not fair. Noel has all the trust in the world in Burmi's effort and defensive abilities. His only beef with Burmi's play is in his decisions with the puck and propensity to turn it over at the blue lines. That is a far cry from the issues that the Columbus coaches had with Filatov ("Filly don't do...."). You also sort of glossed over the massive drop in the talent going from Enstrom to Methot on the back end.

Sure, Nash is an upgrade over Kane when looking in the rearview mirror, but it's not inconceivable that Kane could outscore him as early as next season. Not saying it'll happen but to pretend that we get way better up front trading Kane for Nash is disingenuous. And that says nothing of the fact that we're giving up 7 or 8 years in age.

And finally, we lose our goaltender. Sure we get your first pick which we can then TRY to flip for another goalie, but that's all kind of pointless when we're happy with Pavs. Yes, there is a rumour that he has an offer from the KHL, but we don't even know yet whether that is just a back-up deal in case the CBA doesn't get sorted out in time for the start of the season. Nothing from Pavelec's camp suggests that he is planning to play anywhere but Winnipeg next season.

I applaud you for your willingness to give up 2 major assets in the deal, but the reality is you are asking for 4 of ours (and that says nothing of Antro and Thorburn). We're just not deep enough to do that and I'm not sure the value is there.

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Old
06-16-2012, 09:24 PM
  #64
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To put this into even better perspective, many Jets fans would not want to trade Kane for Nash straight up (not sure where I fall on that yet). Even if you say Kane = Nash, that leaves:

#2 overall
Methot
Mason (negative value)

for

Enstrom
Burmi
Pavs
Antro
Thorburn

Surely you can see that is ridiculous. And before you say that Kane < Nash, I've already seen that many of your fellow Jacket fans would trade the 2 straight up so it can't be that far off.

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Old
06-17-2012, 12:20 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stej View Post
You've done a decent job of showing that you know our depth chart, but I disagree with your pessimism on Burmi's ability to thrive here. Comparing him to Filatov in Columbus is not fair. Noel has all the trust in the world in Burmi's effort and defensive abilities. His only beef with Burmi's play is in his decisions with the puck and propensity to turn it over at the blue lines. That is a far cry from the issues that the Columbus coaches had with Filatov ("Filly don't do...."). You also sort of glossed over the massive drop in the talent going from Enstrom to Methot on the back end.
Noel has always been known as someone who can work well with young talent, which can be both exhausting and exhausted. Personally, I think Burmistrov will be fine...Filatov was never really the same after being demolished in an early-season game a couple years back.

For the Enstrom/Methot drop-off, I guess it would depend on need. Methot's physical and mean with some offense, but he's never really put it all together. I watched a fair amount of Atlanta and saw Bogosian wandering around looking lost plenty of times, then this year he suddenly looked like an NHL defenseman. In fact, everyone looked passably better than they had previously...who knows how much of a difference playing under Huddy might cause him to break through.

Quote:
Sure, Nash is an upgrade over Kane when looking in the rearview mirror, but it's not inconceivable that Kane could outscore him as early as next season. Not saying it'll happen but to pretend that we get way better up front trading Kane for Nash is disingenuous. And that says nothing of the fact that we're giving up 7 or 8 years in age.
True, but it's also conceivable that this year is an anomaly and that Kane becomes little more than a Raffi Torres type of player...he might have one spectacular year about every four seasons, and the rest of it you just keep waiting for him to do what everyone knows he can do. In the case of Nash, he's a known commodity...he'll hit 30 goals, might hit 40, and has an outside shot at 50 if he's with a linemate who he can work with. And it's not like he's past his prime either.

Quote:
And finally, we lose our goaltender. Sure we get your first pick which we can then TRY to flip for another goalie, but that's all kind of pointless when we're happy with Pavs. Yes, there is a rumour that he has an offer from the KHL, but we don't even know yet whether that is just a back-up deal in case the CBA doesn't get sorted out in time for the start of the season. Nothing from Pavelec's camp suggests that he is planning to play anywhere but Winnipeg next season.
Of course; I wouldn't expect an NHL team to simply rush into something without doing a bit of background on their own guys internally.

Quote:
I applaud you for your willingness to give up 2 major assets in the deal, but the reality is you are asking for 4 of ours (and that says nothing of Antro and Thorburn). We're just not deep enough to do that and I'm not sure the value is there.
We can be honest about Thorburn...he's a 4th-liner. Antropov didn't look good at all last year, and didn't really look good the year before either. He might be declining, or it might be a couple of down years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stej View Post
To put this into even better perspective, many Jets fans would not want to trade Kane for Nash straight up (not sure where I fall on that yet). Even if you say Kane = Nash, that leaves:

#2 overall
Methot
Mason (negative value)

for

Enstrom
Burmi
Pavs
Antro
Thorburn

Surely you can see that is ridiculous. And before you say that Kane < Nash, I've already seen that many of your fellow Jacket fans would trade the 2 straight up so it can't be that far off.
Honestly? We're all tired of hearing about Nash trade discussions. We're all tired of hearing it in the media on a daily basis, of hearing it from other fans on a daily basis, of it constantly beating us all down, around the clock...at least part of the appeal of Kane-for-Nash has to be tempered with the knowledge and relief that it would at least put an end to this saga.

Without any one of us having full knowledge of what's going on in Winnipeg, it's tough to say. If Pavelec and Burmistrov start having substantial talks and a deal isn't made here, Winnipeg gets caught with their pants down by having two guys who would net a very good return (right now) becoming close to worthless. I hate to bring up Filatov again, but even in his case, where he was actually loaned to a KHL team for part of a season, it destroyed his trade value because of the perception that he'd skipped out.

I'll be the first to admit that my entire idea teeters on whether Winnipeg gets skittish over the possibility of losing three major assets and getting absolutely nothing for them. If they don't blink, then yes, it's massively unbalanced...if they do blink, then that's another story.

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Old
06-17-2012, 12:30 AM
  #66
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Wow, Mayor Bee, that proposal is god awful. No explanation needed, just awful in every conceivable way.

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06-17-2012, 12:42 AM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
So, it's a Winnipeg/Columbus proposal you want, is it?

To Winnipeg:
Rick Nash
#2 overall pick
Steve Mason
Marc Methot

To Columbus:
Evander Kane
Alex Burmistrov
Tobias Enstrom
Ondrej Pavelec
Nikolai Antropov
Chris Thorburn

Why Columbus does it:
In need of retooling/rebuilding, Columbus has three major assets. These are the #2 overall pick, Rick Nash, and Ryan Johansen. If Kane is able to step in on the first line, he has a chance of mostly replacing Nash's offense while continuing to develop. Burmistrov has struggled in his first two years in the NHL. He may become an excellent defensive forward, or he may break through and become a dominant two-way forward. Enstrom adds more offense on the back end, as well as positionally sound but not physical defense. Pavelec would represent an upgrade in net with someone who's been solid but not great to this point. Thorburn is bottom-line depth; he's only in here because I like him. Antropov struggled and might be declining; he'd be a salary dump at this point.

Why Winnipeg does it:
Three of the players on here have expressed discontent in some manner. Kane is rumored to be refusing to re-sign. Pavelec is rumored to be pondering an offer from the KHL, and Burmistrov has been weakly rumored to be doing the same. Their actual trade value is all over the place right now, but it would sink to zero if anyone signed overseas.

Nash is right now what everyone hopes Kane can become: a first-line All-Star caliber forward who can pot 40 goals. Maybe Kane gets there, maybe he doesn't. Burmistrov's offense has been close to nothing in his first two years; Winnipeg wouldn't be losing any current production in his absence. Enstrom struggled and doesn't play a physical game; Methot doesn't generate as much offense, but provides a bit of a nasty edge to the blueline.

And with the #2 overall pick in addition to #9 overall, Winnipeg would have the opportunity to quickly reload with another excellent prospect in the pipeline.

Variables that affect value
- Mason would be a reclamation project right now; he's signed for 1 more year
- Nash is signed for 6 more years
- Methot is signed for 3 more years
- Kane is unsigned
- Pavelec is unsigned
- Burmistrov has 1 year left on his ELC
- Enstrom is a UFA after this coming year
Take out Mason and Pavelec and it's worth considering...if you add a first rounder in 2013 and a prospect in the minors or a young player with limited NHL experience who can fill in on our 3rd line (ie. Calvert)


Last edited by blueandgoldguy: 06-17-2012 at 12:54 AM. Reason: add
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Old
06-17-2012, 01:56 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Huffer View Post
How is he not remotely close? Little put up big numbers in junior just like Johansen and is still young. And Little is easily a top 6 forward. He would be one of the top #2C's in the game if the Jets had a #1C to move him down.

Johansen's value is higher than Little's I admitted because Johansen is younger, and still has the "potential" to be a #1C.

But you are doing a disservice to Little here IMO.
How is a 5 10 forward with 3 straight sub-50 pt seasons anything but a borderline top 6 forward? If his production drops one notch, To 20-30 pt seasons rather than 30-40, he might not even have aplace in the league. Or he might be the next Ray Whitney, but That's not what his value is at this point. Anyone couldgive you a list as long as your arm of players who outscored both of them in junior and were total busts in the NHL. In asset value, he's totally different category from Johansen.

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06-17-2012, 04:01 AM
  #69
Vander Teemuchuk
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I tried typing a real response but got very angry while doing so. So just plain no. Mayor Bee. You put too much effort in to just be a troll post. But that's just silly.

But, I hope you guys can get an incredible return for Nash and get things turned around so we can become good rivals once we're both in the Central / Corn Belt Conference.

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06-18-2012, 09:37 PM
  #70
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Earlier today, Darren Dreger reported that Pavelec is looking for $4 million a year. To what extent does this affect his trade value?

There are three possible scenarios that I see, with several variants of each:
1) He is offered $4 million a year by Winnipeg and signs. His trade value surges immediately, making this entire suggestion on my part non-viable.
2) He is offered $4 million a year by Winnipeg, but is insulted due to the pace of negotiations and still won't sign. His trade value bottoms out.
3) He doesn't care about $4 million a year, he just wants out. By not tipping their hand, his trade value sits right around what it is now, which is less than someone of his skill and potential. The current reduction in trade value is due to the letters "K-H-L" having been rumored.

So I guess the question is whether Winnipeg wants to be perceived as caving in, or whether they want to cut their losses, or whether they think Pavelec is bluffing. This is seriously high-stakes stuff here; they do not have a backup option right now. Without Pavelec, and with Chris Mason probably moving on, the only two options currently in the system aren't close to NHL-ready.

Losing Pavelec would mean having to:
- Sign a UFA
- Trade for a goalie
- ????????

Not only that, they'd be bidding against Columbus and Toronto in the goalie market. The addition of another team into the sweepstakes will cause the price on a goalie to surge. Can Winnipeg take that risk?

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06-18-2012, 10:26 PM
  #71
Stej
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
Earlier today, Darren Dreger reported that Pavelec is looking for $4 million a year. To what extent does this affect his trade value?

There are three possible scenarios that I see, with several variants of each:
1) He is offered $4 million a year by Winnipeg and signs. His trade value surges immediately, making this entire suggestion on my part non-viable.
2) He is offered $4 million a year by Winnipeg, but is insulted due to the pace of negotiations and still won't sign. His trade value bottoms out.
3) He doesn't care about $4 million a year, he just wants out. By not tipping their hand, his trade value sits right around what it is now, which is less than someone of his skill and potential. The current reduction in trade value is due to the letters "K-H-L" having been rumored.

So I guess the question is whether Winnipeg wants to be perceived as caving in, or whether they want to cut their losses, or whether they think Pavelec is bluffing. This is seriously high-stakes stuff here; they do not have a backup option right now. Without Pavelec, and with Chris Mason probably moving on, the only two options currently in the system aren't close to NHL-ready.

Losing Pavelec would mean having to:
- Sign a UFA
- Trade for a goalie
- ????????

Not only that, they'd be bidding against Columbus and Toronto in the goalie market. The addition of another team into the sweepstakes will cause the price on a goalie to surge. Can Winnipeg take that risk?
It's a little ironic that you get frustrated when the vultures circle Columbus, yet here you are, yet again.

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06-18-2012, 11:38 PM
  #72
Mayor Bee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stej View Post
It's a little ironic that you get frustrated when the vultures circle Columbus, yet here you are, yet again.
I derive joy from talking hockey, not from this situation. I hate seeing players using the KHL as leverage, and I'm curious to see how this is ultimately resolved.

I like Pavelec; I think the NHL is better for having his talent in the league. But I'm genuinely curious to know what the plan is at this point. How does this affect whether Chris Mason returns? Do they sign Aebischer out of the AHL to at least be a backup next year? Do they adjust draft plans and now look at a goalie in the 2nd or 3rd round? Are they prepared to play hardball with Pavelec, while working on trades?

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06-19-2012, 02:57 PM
  #73
Victoriahabs
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what about MYL instead

Quote:
Originally Posted by viper0220 View Post
To Winnipeg:

Ryan Johansen
2nd pick in 2012


To Columbus:

Tobias Enstrom
Bryan Little
9th pick in 2012
To Montreal Kane +# 9 pick.
To The Peg, Rene Bourque+ #2 pick.
Winnipeg gets a tough bigger forward + moves up 6 spots.
Montreal gets Kane and if you believe Bob McKenzie a shot at Grigorenko. win win nes pas

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06-19-2012, 04:18 PM
  #74
vBurmi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Victoriahabs View Post
To Montreal Kane +# 9 pick.
To The Peg, Rene Bourque+ #2 pick.
Winnipeg gets a tough bigger forward + moves up 6 spots.
Montreal gets Kane and if you believe Bob McKenzie a shot at Grigorenko. win win nes pas
Take out the 9th overall pick, change Bourque to Eller, and change the #2 to #3 since that's what the Habs actually have. A lesser player who is ten years older than Kane isn't a piece the Jets would consider.

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