HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Washington Capitals
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Acq/ Rost. Bldg./ Cap Part XIV

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-18-2012, 04:20 PM
  #26
Hivemind
We're Touched
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 14,216
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChibiPooky View Post
Sign in St. Louis? I hope you're right
Something tells me they don't want him back, either.

Hivemind is offline  
Old
06-18-2012, 04:22 PM
  #27
Stewie G
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,200
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChibiPooky View Post
He took a discount to stay in St. Louis, as was mentioned in the Jackman main board thread before he signed.
I know. I was trying to say that he would be getting more than 15% more than Schultz had he signed anywhere else.

Stewie G is offline  
Old
06-18-2012, 05:09 PM
  #28
RandyHolt
Capitals Station
 
RandyHolt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Country: Poland
Posts: 24,687
vCash: 1300
How did George come to the number he inked Sarge to; who is a comparable?

RandyHolt is offline  
Old
06-18-2012, 05:15 PM
  #29
CapitalsCupFantasy
HFBoards Sponsor
 
CapitalsCupFantasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 28,086
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
How did George come to the number he inked Sarge to; who is a comparable?
If you knew hockey, you would be in the game Randy. Our place is to act like lemmings, not to question.

CapitalsCupFantasy is offline  
Old
06-18-2012, 05:20 PM
  #30
bonzilla
Registered User
 
bonzilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Va
Country: United States
Posts: 846
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
How did George come to the number he inked Sarge to; who is a comparable?
Because he's core dude!

bonzilla is offline  
Old
06-18-2012, 05:27 PM
  #31
BrooklynCapsFan
Waiting on the Isles
 
BrooklynCapsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Posts: 15,027
vCash: 500
The Post is reporting that the NHL is prepping to take over the Devils in the event they can't find a buyer for their debt by mid August. Can they make a proper commitment to Parise as this is going on?

BrooklynCapsFan is online now  
Old
06-18-2012, 05:29 PM
  #32
Brad Tolliver
Terror Goes Into
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Overtime
Posts: 4,073
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
Well, the first picture is Voynov, not Doughty.

And since when can you not develop in a bottom six role? All of these players were clearly still developing and made key contributions to their teams playoff runs (or even reaching the playoffs in the case of the 8th seeded Kings). You're right in one respect, these players didn't develop on cup contenders. They developed on cup winners.

I don't disagree that the Capitals shouldn't depend on young players/prospects as heavily as they do. I agree that they should earn their roles and force their way into prominent positions. But the concept that contenders don't develop talent on their NHL roster is ridiculous. And the concept that Johansson needs to be traded because he hasn't "hit puberty" yet is borderline mentally ill.
That's most definitely not Voynov, who BTW played 3+ seasons in Manchester. GIS said it was Doughty. Doesn't matter either way.

If you are trying to develop a skill player for a top 6 role, you simply don't waste his development with bottom 6 minutes in a defensive role. Any serious contender would send that player down if the rules permit if that player can't be in the top 6 without being a major liability, which Johansson most definitely was.

The players you listed were all brought up to fill specific roles that they were ready for. They only remained in those roles as long as they were effective, winning was what matter with little to no consideration for developmental consequences in cutting their ice time. NJ playing journeyman Peter Harrold over Adam Larrson while giving rookie Henrique a major role is case in point, and Lou's record for developing players speaks for itself. They only play someone that's ready for the role they are given.

Johansson has far more value in the trade market now than he ever will on the Caps roster.

Brad Tolliver is offline  
Old
06-18-2012, 07:24 PM
  #33
bonzaibondra12
Registered User
 
bonzaibondra12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Rockville, MD
Posts: 1,874
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
How did George come to the number he inked Sarge to; who is a comparable?
Chara. He got an incredible hometown discount.

bonzaibondra12 is offline  
Old
06-18-2012, 07:56 PM
  #34
RandyHolt
Capitals Station
 
RandyHolt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Country: Poland
Posts: 24,687
vCash: 1300
Hell no, the devils should not be able to spend any money now. In fact, they should be required to be at the floor next year. Its the common logic step, to follow the Pitt model to success.

Give the team to the player they owe the most to, Kovy. Give him the keys to the league, or let him whine beg and complain endlessly to dictate their the vision of the league - an uptempo style. Let the team tank to ensure a ping pong ball. Have a closed door lottery. Give them the best player, and make NBC televise Pitt vs Devils every Sunday that next season.

Mission Accomplished.

Mixed in with whining and working the league officials and owners at every chance, as them deem appropriate until further notice, to help ensure a winner.

RandyHolt is offline  
Old
06-18-2012, 08:14 PM
  #35
Hivemind
We're Touched
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 14,216
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Tolliver View Post
That's most definitely not Voynov, who BTW played 3+ seasons in Manchester. GIS said it was Doughty. Doesn't matter either way.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/players/...20007004679370

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Tolliver View Post
If you are trying to develop a skill player for a top 6 role, you simply don't waste his development with bottom 6 minutes in a defensive role. Any serious contender would send that player down if the rules permit if that player can't be in the top 6 without being a major liability, which Johansson most definitely was.
Despite that being exactly what you just praised the Bruins for doing with Marchand and Seguin in their bottom six for most of last season. Not to mention countless other cases. Datsyuk started his career as a 3rd/4th liner for a contending Detroit team. Couturier immediately jumped in as an 18 year old in Philadelphia's bottom six this year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Tolliver View Post
The players you listed were all brought up to fill specific roles that they were ready for. They only remained in those roles as long as they were effective, winning was what matter with little to no consideration for developmental consequences in cutting their ice time. NJ playing journeyman Peter Harrold over Adam Larrson while giving rookie Henrique a major role is case in point, and Lou's record for developing players speaks for itself. They only play someone that's ready for the role they are given.
Are you suggesting that Boudreau or Hunter were playing Johansson over better options to give him more ice time to develop? Because I'd love to see the better top six options we had wilting away in the bottom six.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Tolliver View Post
Johansson has far more value in the trade market now than he ever will on the Caps roster.
I disagree.

Hivemind is offline  
Old
06-18-2012, 08:20 PM
  #36
Capitlols
Registered User
 
Capitlols's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 10,813
vCash: 500
Quote:
8. Think other teams may be asking George McPhee if he's interested in trading the rights to Evgeny Kuznetsov.
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...-thoughts.html

Capitlols is online now  
Old
06-18-2012, 09:22 PM
  #37
Brad Tolliver
Terror Goes Into
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Overtime
Posts: 4,073
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
http://nyheter24.se/incoming/article...417100_3x2.jpg
That's Voynov. Clearly not in any of your pictures. By all means, insist on being wrong on something irrelevant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
Despite that being exactly what you just praised the Bruins for doing with Marchand and Seguin in their bottom six for most of last season. Not to mention countless other cases. Datsyuk started his career as a 3rd/4th liner for a contending Detroit team. Couturier immediately jumped in as an 18 year old in Philadelphia's bottom six this year.
Marchand was developed in Providence to be a checking line player but ended up being more than that in Boston. He was ready to fill the role and he played his way into more than that. Seguin was too good to be sent back to juniors, and even then Bruins didn't force him into the lineup in the playoffs. Datsyuk was a 3rd/4th line for an absolutely loaded Detroit team. Couturier was playing because he did a good defensive job as a 3rd/4th line center, and you don't know whether he will develop into a top 6 center.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
Are you suggesting that Boudreau or Hunter were playing Johansson over better options to give him more ice time to develop? Because I'd love to see the better top six options we had wilting away in the bottom six.
Perreault, Brouwer, Knuble, etc. More PP and overall ice time than Semin in the playoffs. Johansson absolutely killed the 3rd line the one playoff game when he was on it, he simply wasn't good enough to play anywhere in the Caps lineup.

Just look at Loktionov and Larsson from the Cup Finals, did you really think those teams sat them for lesser skilled players for development reasons? No, they weren't good enough to play where they were supposed to, so they didn't.

Brad Tolliver is offline  
Old
06-18-2012, 09:50 PM
  #38
RandyHolt
Capitals Station
 
RandyHolt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Country: Poland
Posts: 24,687
vCash: 1300
George trying to keep his cool pretending like we don't need Kuz here next year is worth a laugh. Saying he will be stronger and so on. Other GM's know our team is a mess, circling our young prospects like vultures. Low balling, knowing he will be feeling the heat to ice a more marketable team, as the Ovi led cup window is closing. He all but showed his hand last summer finally parting with a first for Troy.

We need scoring bodies. I get the feeling he will be desperate, and do something with our 1st's or a top prospect. Lord knows he wont trade anyone off the roster.

RandyHolt is offline  
Old
06-18-2012, 09:54 PM
  #39
Carlzner
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Boulder, CO
Country: United States
Posts: 10,869
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Tolliver View Post
http://nyheter24.se/incoming/article...417100_3x2.jpg
That's Voynov. Clearly not in any of your pictures. By all means, insist on being wrong on something irrelevant.
Yup... but the first picture was Voynov.

Carlzner is online now  
Old
06-18-2012, 09:54 PM
  #40
amjay13
HFBoards Sponsor
 
amjay13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Country: United States
Posts: 3,640
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
George trying to keep his cool pretending like we don't need Kuz here next year is worth a laugh. Saying he will be stronger and so on. Other GM's know our team is a mess, circling our young prospects like vultures. Low balling, knowing he will be feeling the heat to ice a more marketable team, as the Ovi led cup window is closing. He all but showed his hand last summer finally parting with a first for Troy.

We need scoring bodies. I get the feeling he will be desperate, and do something with our 1st's or a top prospect. Lord knows he wont trade anyone off the roster.
In general, I think I'd be OK with that. Granted, there is always the chance GMGM makes a terrible deal but it's time to trade some top prospects/picks for a major piece.

amjay13 is offline  
Old
06-18-2012, 10:33 PM
  #41
tmljeh19
Registered User
 
tmljeh19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 862
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by amjay13 View Post
In general, I think I'd be OK with that. Granted, there is always the chance GMGM makes a terrible deal but it's time to trade some top prospects/picks for a major piece.
GMGM should be doing everything possible to unload Kuz. Who the hell knows what will happen in two years. He could easily be out of hockey by then. Strike while the iron is hot on Kuz. With that said I see no way he would unload him sadly

tmljeh19 is offline  
Old
06-18-2012, 10:37 PM
  #42
Brad Tolliver
Terror Goes Into
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Overtime
Posts: 4,073
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Braden Carlzner View Post
Yup... but the first picture was Voynov.
Nope.

=/

Brad Tolliver is offline  
Old
06-18-2012, 11:27 PM
  #43
Carlzner
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Boulder, CO
Country: United States
Posts: 10,869
vCash: 500
That's him.

Carlzner is online now  
Old
06-19-2012, 05:26 AM
  #44
Hivemind
We're Touched
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 14,216
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Tolliver View Post
http://nyheter24.se/incoming/article...417100_3x2.jpg
That's Voynov. Clearly not in any of your pictures. By all means, insist on being wrong on something irrelevant.
Did you read the caption on the picture?

"Los Angeles Kings defenseman Slava Voynov (26) holds up the Stanley Cup after the Kings beat the New Jersey Devils 6-1 during Game 6 of the NHL hockey Stanley Cup finals, Monday, June 11, 2012, in Los Angeles."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Tolliver View Post
Marchand was developed in Providence to be a checking line player but ended up being more than that in Boston. He was ready to fill the role and he played his way into more than that. Seguin was too good to be sent back to juniors, and even then Bruins didn't force him into the lineup in the playoffs. Datsyuk was a 3rd/4th line for an absolutely loaded Detroit team. Couturier was playing because he did a good defensive job as a 3rd/4th line center, and you don't know whether he will develop into a top 6 center.
Marchand was almost a PPG player in Providence before he was promoted to Boston (32P in 34GP that season). He was playing on lines with players like Hamill and Sobotka (who was a PPG+ guy in the AHL). He was most definitely an offensive player in Providence, not a checking guy.

You're trying to nit-pick examples apart, even though the overall trend continues to defy your point. I'd like to hear your excuses for Kesler, Pavelski, and Franzen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Tolliver View Post
Perreault, Brouwer, Knuble, etc. More PP and overall ice time than Semin in the playoffs. Johansson absolutely killed the 3rd line the one playoff game when he was on it, he simply wasn't good enough to play anywhere in the Caps lineup.
You won't find many bigger Knuble fans than me on this board, but even I admit he just wasn't quick enough anymore to be a viable top six option.
Brouwer got more shifts per game than Johansson and very similar overall ice time (Johansson took longer shifts since Brouwer was put in tiring/defensive assignments). And for someone who has complained so much about Johansson's defensive issues, I'm mildly surprised you're advocating pulling Brouwer from that role (thus putting Johansson in a more defensive 3rd/4th line role).
Perreault was ineffective in the ice time he was given. He wasn't scratched for no reason, he was scratched because he was neither productive nor effective in an energy role.

And I don't see why you're so insistent that Johansson was put their in a development role instead of a chemistry role.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Tolliver View Post
Just look at Loktionov and Larsson from the Cup Finals, did you really think those teams sat them for lesser skilled players for development reasons? No, they weren't good enough to play where they were supposed to, so they didn't.
And Eakin was in Hershey and Orlov was benched for us. You act as if Johansson was some 19 year old rookie who hadn't produced at all this season. Hate to break it to you, but Johansson was 3rd on the team in points. He was one of our better forwards.

Hivemind is offline  
Old
06-19-2012, 07:34 AM
  #45
Raikkonen
In GMBT we trust
 
Raikkonen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Russia
Posts: 3,294
vCash: 500
I think MJ was more or less OK against Boston. Rangers? Not so much.

Maybe he was injured, maybe he was exhausted. Maybe Rags' Dmen were better suited against him, I don't know.

Raikkonen is online now  
Old
06-19-2012, 07:56 AM
  #46
RandyHolt
Capitals Station
 
RandyHolt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Country: Poland
Posts: 24,687
vCash: 1300
I have been rough on MJ but do realize he was playing out of position - wing. Coming down the wing by himself as we saw time and time again - he was alone. His game right now is speed so he was ahead of his line. The Rags D were waiting for him time and time again. He had to get rid of the puck one way or another, or attempt to go wide or cut inside. He tried none of those, no dumps to the corner, he would just kind of stop and fumble the puck away, maybe shying away from getting clobbered. He needs to bulk up if he is going to be an NHL winger.

He clearly wasn't comfortable at wing leading the rush, he is not Jason Chimera that can bull down the wing by himself. It should have been realized and him moved back to center, but the love was too strong for Laich Beagle Hendricks and Aucoin. Just like Bruce did to Nick, i would have stuck him at 4C+PP2 in a heartbeat.

RandyHolt is offline  
Old
06-19-2012, 09:23 AM
  #47
Millhaus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 6,018
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
L...knowing he will be feeling the heat to ice a more marketable team, as the Ovi led cup window is closing...
I'm not saying I agree that the window is even open now but I will ask this again, if the premise is that the Caps' cup window is indeed now open why is it closing any time soon?

Millhaus is offline  
Old
06-19-2012, 09:30 AM
  #48
RandyHolt
Capitals Station
 
RandyHolt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Country: Poland
Posts: 24,687
vCash: 1300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Millhaus View Post
I'm not saying I agree that the window is even open now but I will ask this again, if the premise is that the Caps' cup window is indeed now open why is it closing any time soon?
The window wasn't supposed to be open this wide so soon in the first place. With Bruce's overnight heroics, Ovi and crew opened it wide and George has been scrambling since to keep up.

I know you have noticed Ovi Semin Nick and Green - the core of the team - trending downward significantly after Montreal. Maybe its just meaningless stats, maybe its more.

Regardless, I do see a downward trend despite shelling our way to round 2 this season. It takes too many coin flips to win a cup like that. Will we be predicted to win the cup again next season.. no?

Downward trend = window closing. The team as currently constructed needs to be revamped, reinvented, whatever you want to call it, before we can take the next step. We took a big step backwards.

RandyHolt is offline  
Old
06-19-2012, 09:38 AM
  #49
Millhaus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 6,018
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
I have been rough on MJ but do realize he was playing out of position - wing. Coming down the wing by himself as we saw time and time again - he was alone. His game right now is speed so he was ahead of his line. The Rags D were waiting for him time and time again. He had to get rid of the puck one way or another, or attempt to go wide or cut inside. He tried none of those, no dumps to the corner, he would just kind of stop and fumble the puck away, maybe shying away from getting clobbered. He needs to bulk up if he is going to be an NHL winger.

He clearly wasn't comfortable at wing leading the rush, he is not Jason Chimera that can bull down the wing by himself. It should have been realized and him moved back to center, but the love was too strong for Laich Beagle Hendricks and Aucoin. Just like Bruce did to Nick, i would have stuck him at 4C+PP2 in a heartbeat.
Johansson is a centerman IMO. He is never going to be strong enough to thrive along the boards and he doesn't have the shot or take it to the net mentality to really take advantage of his speed on the wing and his defensive instincts are in many ways wasted there.

His speed obviously is a ++ at center, his defensive instincts are a + there and his playmaking for a second line centerman is more than adequate, especially when he uses that speed to back guys off and give himself that split second to make the pass. Obviously he needs to work on his faceoffs and a little more composure in front of the net should help him pot some more goals but IMO he is now and in the future a centerman not a winger.

Millhaus is offline  
Old
06-19-2012, 09:53 AM
  #50
Millhaus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 6,018
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
Downward trend = window closing. The team as currently constructed needs to be revamped, reinvented, whatever you want to call it, before we can take the next step. We took a big step backwards.
Honestly IMO the way the stars have played over the last couple years means the window is closed and it doesn't even begin opening again until they get back to playing something close to their best. With it being very likely that Semin doesn't even come back it is closed tighter than at any time since Boudreau took over.

Which I guess is my point. It is closed now but every important player is still going to be around for while and in many cases likely to improve so I see the chances of the window opening up again in the fairly near term future as higher than it closing even tighter.

Millhaus is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:13 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.