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Luongo XII - For Your 1st-and-a-Prospect Only (Mod warning in OP)

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Old
06-19-2012, 01:48 PM
  #51
Numbers
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Originally Posted by Cyris View Post
If Burke gets fired he gets another job. If Burke gets fired after making panic moves to save his job he doesn't find another one so easily.
If only getting a GM job after being fired was that easy.........

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Old
06-19-2012, 01:48 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Hansen 36 View Post
Mm, that new thread smell.

Now then, so Harding's gone, and Backstrom isn't available. How much does this change Louie's value?
"It doesn't at all. Because there are still numerous possibilities for the Leafs to find there number 1 goalie elsewhere."

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Old
06-19-2012, 01:49 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Silverback91 View Post
Toronto fans are starting to grasp for straws.

First theory: Less teams after Lou because of all the goalie signings
MOSTLY WRONG! The only team that may have been in the hunt for Lou that got a goalie was TB. Theres still Columbus, Chicago, Toronto, Edmonton. Florida and Winnipeg may have interest in Lou as well.

2nd Theory: Backstrom is available.
WRONG! Harding is just as injury prone and then what will they do if he goes down? run with 2 rookies? Minny fans have said unless they upgrade their team, Backstrom isn't going anywhere! That means KESSEL or PHANEUF or GARDINER + 5th.

3rd Theory: Toronto has power because they can say they are fine with a Reimer/Scrivens tandem and wait yet another year LOL
WRONG! Look at what a Reimer/Gustavsson combo did lol. Burke called out the teams goalies. You really think he will be fine with going with a goalie he called out and had as a 1A/B goalie and a rookie? enjoy another year of a top 10 pick i guess an hope to god Hackett is ready so the Wild decide to let Backstrom go next season and that he doesn't go to New Jersey instead.

Lets face facts Leafs fans. The only goalies left on the market are washed up has beens, backups, very unproven old back ups.

UFA Market of goalies who have even a slim chance to be an actual starter are:
Scott Clemensen (doubt he leaves Florida)
Cristobal Huet (was bad in Europe)
Chris Mason (okay back up for the Jets)
Martin Biron (good back up, hasn't been a good starter since leaving Buffalo)
Al Montoya (fluke season candidate)
Dan Ellis (couldn't stop a beachball last time he was a starter still an okay back up)
Dwayne Roloson (41 and is rapidly declining)
Johan Hedberg (highly doubt he leaves New Jersey but after Clemensen best option)

Trade market has Jonathan Bernier but then again the bidding war for him will most likely be more competitive than for Luongo as Bernier is young and will help a team for a decade. Something teams that are re-building like Edmonton or Columbus need.
delusional Canucks fan....keep up the Wrong thinking.

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Old
06-19-2012, 01:50 PM
  #54
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I really want to see what the op is gonna go with Octo*****.
Nuckowussy?

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06-19-2012, 01:52 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by CommonMeans View Post
This post defies all logic in my opinion. The Canucks are trading from a position of strength. The market for top-flight goaltenders available is ONE; yet the Canucks have no leverage? Nonsense in my opinion.
The market for an overpaid goaltender past his prime and signed for another ten years won't be great. That's why Mike Gillis stated he won't get any offers for Luongo until August.

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06-19-2012, 01:52 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
If Harding and his agent thought that he could be mentioned in the same sentence as Luongo then they would have gone to UFA.
Funny, he is a perennial UFA target when Leafs fans mention other options.

Thomas, Lindback, Harding, Vokoun....it's getting thinner, and thinner man...

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Old
06-19-2012, 01:53 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Holy Mackinaw View Post
Nuckowussy?
I prefer Luongowussy myself.

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06-19-2012, 01:53 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
=
If Schneider isn't comfortable signing a long-term deal now despite being promised a fair shake at the starters job (with money to support that) what makes you think he'll sign a long-term deal after we trade Luongo?
Both goalies want to be the starter.

If Schneider becomes the starter I think Luongo will politely ask for a trade based on what he has been saying. He wants to do whats best for the team so will waive if they want to go with Schneider, but that doesn't mean he wants to be the Vancouver backup.

Schneider is in the same position. Right now he is stuck behind Luongo and his 10 year contract. If Luongo is still there I think he sees it as them sticking with him so why should he sign longer than a year when he can get starting minutes else where? If he is the starter see my first point.

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Old
06-19-2012, 01:55 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
Agreed. I never would have really characterized acquiring a top 10 goalie as a panic move. It would seem to be a pretty sensible move for Burke to acquire one who is on the market. Trades don't have to always be about one team fleecing the other. Most often trades are made where both sides benefit.
I agree that if a trade can be worked out that works for both sides it would be sensible. But I dont think you will ever see a consensus it these threads.
We have been close a few times. But after that happens the extremes from both sides come in and drowned out the moderates.

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06-19-2012, 01:55 PM
  #60
Ched Brosky
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Originally Posted by ryno23 View Post
delusional Canucks fan....keep up the Wrong thinking.
LOL what was wrong with my thinking?

so lets see, which team that was looking for a starter and may have had interest in Luongo got a new goalie besides Tampa Bay? Care to tell me because I don't see any other team. Do u know a trade that has happened involving a goalie going to team needing a starter, that no one else in the world knows of?

Are u saying u know more than Minnesota's own fans since they say Backstrom is not available unless they get a major upgrade?

Where did a Reimer/Gustavsson combo get the Leafs the last 2 years again? How does changing the backup to an even more unproven guy help the team? He could be better than Gustavsson but he could also be worse. Plus he is a backup so maybe he wins u guys 3 more games than Gustavsson. Thats not going to bump the Leafs into the playoffs.

Seems like this Leafs fan's brain cells are rotting away because they can't handle the realization their fool proof plan of signing a goalie or getting a starter in a trade for a cheap price has become a fantasy

Before u say Canuck fan delusional thinking they can get a kings ransom for Luongo, I have never said they will. Infact I have said the trade should be something around Luongo for Colborne, Ashton, and the 2013 1st. Hardly a kings ransom when u keep ur top 5 pick, top prospect and ur top current players


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Old
06-19-2012, 01:57 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
Funny, he is a perennial UFA target when Leafs fans mention other options.

Thomas, Lindback, Harding, Vokoun....it's getting thinner, and thinner man...
And the number of teams on Luongo's list that are willing to take on his contract is getting bigger???

What fan base has come in here besides us with a decent offer?
Florida maybe? I still think they offered less than we did.

That is it.

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06-19-2012, 01:57 PM
  #62
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I would love for the Leafs not to get Luongo and just keep playing musical goalies while not making the playoffs

They have finallly built a solid offense and Luongo would fill their biggest need so it makes me laugh when they think there are "better" options out there

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Old
06-19-2012, 01:59 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Figz14 View Post
"It doesn't at all. Because there are still numerous possibilities for the Leafs to find there number 1 goalie elsewhere."
I think his value has gone up, and Gillis is in a higher position of strength then before, I just don't think Burke would agree to improve any offer at this point and would just walk away due to his faith in Reimer if he is being asked to overpay.

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06-19-2012, 01:59 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by ryno23 View Post
delusional Canucks fan....keep up the Wrong thinking.
So contest and debate, don't just insult someone because their views don't line up with your narrow perception.

Tampa aside, which teams are out of the race?

Is Backstrom available?

Is saying Reimer/Scrivens is something you guys can keep any less realistic for a team that needs to be a contender then a Vancouver keeping a Luongo/Schneider platoon?

Which UFA is an improvement on what you have now? Who will be available?
Scott Clemensen, Cristobal Huet, Chris Mason, Martin Biron, Al Montoya, Dan Ellis, Dwayne Roloson, or Johan Hedberg?

It's crap like "delusional Canucks fan....keep up the Wrong thinking" that make the Leafs nation a mockery on this board. Props to Cyris, HolyMackinow, TOML and all the other Leafs fans who can at least back what they are saying up, while I may disagree with some of what is said, give me discourse.

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06-19-2012, 01:59 PM
  #65
RandV
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Originally Posted by AlmightyPO View Post
Although I disagree, I think Burke has no problem going into next season banking on Reimer having a bounce back year. Although I believe that we need Luongo, I can't see Burke being pushed into overpaying as he has too much faith in Reimer, and is against long cap circumvention contracts.

Knowing Burke's BS he will probably explain his decision of not doing anything to the goaltending on having a new system, and coach as well as Scrivens' great AHL playoffs, and Reimer having a summer to fully recover.

This is why I think if the Leafs get Luongo it will not be an overpayment.
Well technically it's only a cap circumvention contract if Luongo retires early. So Burke can just bluster around saying he fully expects Luongo to play out the entire contract, and like any good politician probably isn't going to be around long enough to face the consequences of this happening or not

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06-19-2012, 02:00 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Kip96 View Post
I would love for the Leafs not to get Luongo and just keep playing musical goalies while not making the playoffs
And I would similarly love to see the Canucks not trade Luongo and piss off both of their goaltenders, eventually bowing out in the first round again.

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06-19-2012, 02:00 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Silverback91 View Post
Toronto fans are starting to grasp for straws.
First theory: Less teams after Lou because of all the goalie signings
MOSTLY WRONG! The only team that may have been in the hunt for Lou that got a goalie was TB. Theres still Columbus, Chicago, Toronto, Edmonton. Florida and Winnipeg may have interest in Lou as well.

2nd Theory: Backstrom is available.
WRONG! Harding is just as injury prone and then what will they do if he goes down? run with 2 rookies? Minny fans have said unless they upgrade their team, Backstrom isn't going anywhere! That means KESSEL or PHANEUF or GARDINER + 5th.

3rd Theory: Toronto has power because they can say they are fine with a Reimer/Scrivens tandem and wait yet another year LOL
WRONG! Look at what a Reimer/Gustavsson combo did lol. Burke called out the teams goalies. You really think he will be fine with going with a goalie he called out and had as a 1A/B goalie and a rookie? enjoy another year of a top 10 pick i guess an hope to god Hackett is ready so the Wild decide to let Backstrom go next season and that he doesn't go to New Jersey instead.

Lets face facts Leafs fans. The only goalies left on the market are washed up has beens, backups, very unproven old back ups.

UFA Market of goalies who have even a slim chance to be an actual starter are:
Scott Clemensen (doubt he leaves Florida)
Cristobal Huet (was bad in Europe)
Chris Mason (okay back up for the Jets)
Martin Biron (good back up, hasn't been a good starter since leaving Buffalo)
Al Montoya (fluke season candidate)
Dan Ellis (couldn't stop a beachball last time he was a starter still an okay back up)
Dwayne Roloson (41 and is rapidly declining)
Johan Hedberg (highly doubt he leaves New Jersey but after Clemensen best option)

Trade market has Jonathan Bernier but then again the bidding war for him will most likely be more competitive than for Luongo as Bernier is young and will help a team for a decade. Something teams that are re-building like Edmonton or Columbus need.
The bolded is untrue. Toronto fans didn't want to overpay 2 weeks ago, and goalies coming off the market has not changed that view at all.

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06-19-2012, 02:00 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
Funny, he is a perennial UFA target when Leafs fans mention other options.

Thomas, Lindback, Harding, Vokoun....it's getting thinner, and thinner man...
Couldn't care less what other fans state, a goalie isn't a big deal until he proves that he can be a good starter. Vokoun and Harding voluntarily took themselves out of the running while Lindback has proven squat. Thomas is pulling a power play because he doesn't want the Bruins trading him someplace where he doesn't want to go so who knows how that will work out.

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Old
06-19-2012, 02:02 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Cyris View Post
And the number of teams on Luongo's list that are willing to take on his contract is getting bigger???

What fan base has come in here besides us with a decent offer?
Florida maybe? I still think they offered less than we did.

That is it.
We're down one team. The Leafs/others are down 4 potential goalies. Not trying to be inflammitory, but that benefits the seller in this case, not the buyer, who ever it may be.

Florida offered less, but it fit our team better. Howden is a better prospect then everyone but Kadri, Upshall is more valuable to us, contract included, as an "elite bottom six" forward then MacArthur or even Kulemin would be, and I lost track of the rest of the offer.

There was an Edmonton fan with an offer on the table. It was something along the lines of Gagner/Paaravi, Khabibulin and a second. We wanted both main pieces last I checked.

If it helps, I liked your offer better for straight value

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06-19-2012, 02:03 PM
  #70
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3 way deal that everyone is going to hate but is actually pretty fair.

T.O gets Luongo
NYR gets Schenn + Kulemin
VAn gets Dubinsky + Ashton/Colbourne/Kadri whatever

Toronto gets Lou for Schenn, Kulemin and a prospect
NYR gets depth on D and a top 9 winger, (imagine adding Schenn as a bottom pairing to that crazy top 4 they have)
Van gets a quasi 2nd/3rd liner and a decent prospect.

This is assuming that NYR are actually shopping Dubinsky hard.

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06-19-2012, 02:03 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Cyris View Post
What fan base has come in here besides us with a decent offer?
Florida maybe? I still think they offered less than we did.

That is it.
Edmonton surprisingly.

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06-19-2012, 02:03 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by AlmightyPO View Post
You don't trade for a 10 year contract for a mid-season patch up.
How many years were left on Carter's contract when the Kings traded for him mid-season?

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06-19-2012, 02:04 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Cyris View Post
And the number of teams on Luongo's list that are willing to take on his contract is getting bigger???

What fan base has come in here besides us with a decent offer?
Florida maybe? I still think they offered less than we did.

That is it.
Only Lindback changed teams and took away a potential destination for Luongo.

One team vs four goalies. You do the math.

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Old
06-19-2012, 02:04 PM
  #74
cyris
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If only getting a GM job after being fired was that easy.........
Yes because there are so many GM's out there with a cup ring looking for work.

The last 2 times Burke lost his job he spent what a combined month looking for work?

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06-19-2012, 02:05 PM
  #75
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Honestly, I'm a bit surprised by some of my fellow Canuck fans.

Lu is a great goalie on a questionable contract.

I've gone on record, already, saying that I don't expect much from a trade.
There certainly won't be a "big" name coming back unless he is on an equally questionable contract.

However a deal goes, I'll keep my expectations modest. I'd rather be pleasantly surprised than bitterly disappointed.

All things being equal, I do hope a deal can get done between T.O. and Van.
Lu would be a great addition to the Leafs...at least for now.

As for all the back-and-forth in this thread? Haha. Good times.

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