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Josh Harding (3 years, $1.9M Cap Hit)

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Old
06-19-2012, 02:22 PM
  #76
Engebretson
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My hope is that by offering Harding this deal, management does not believe there are any lingering injury issues and that he has the durability to start a reasonable amount of games over the course of this new contract. I'm excited to see him over the next few years and glad that he wants to be here.

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Originally Posted by IHaveNoCreativity View Post
Bring in a vet for backup, whave Kuemper and Hackett duke it out Houston..
Meh, I'd probably feel more comfortable rolling out Backs/Hards over the course of a season than Hards/random vet. Personally, I'd be shocked if we traded Backs for anything less than GMCF getting his socks knocked off. Who knows though, it could happen.

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06-19-2012, 02:25 PM
  #77
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Nothing new to say really, add me to the list of people that think 3 years is the perfect length and the money is not unreasonable. I doubted he'd be signing here because I didn't think he'd sign short term, thought he was going to want to test the FA waters.

I guess all the talk about him actually wanting to be here was true for once. I generally dismiss that as soon as I read it because really, what else are they going to say?

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06-19-2012, 02:26 PM
  #78
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If Backstrom is traded, it's almost certainly going to be at the deadline. With Lindback off the market and "solving" Tampa's need for a goalie, the price on Bernier and Schneider/Luongo is going to fall to reasonable levels. There's only so many teams looking for a goalie, and most of them can't afford Backstrom's full season cap hit. There just isn't enough of a market out there for teams to take a serious run at Backstrom for $6MM.

That said, I'm not so certain this spells the ultimate end to Backstrom's time in Minnesota. We all assume Hackett is ready, and that he'll be playing in the NHL in 2013-2014. However, we don't know if that's really the case. If Hackett struggles this season in Houston (coughLehnercough) it's possible we'd see the organization offer Backs a 1 year contract for the next season as well.

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06-19-2012, 02:30 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
25th highest cap hit but let's look at some people below him and why:

Jonathan Quick - Last year of 3-year deal signed as 24 year old, will likely see a raise into the $6MM+ per year range.
Anders Nilsson - Last year of an ELC, should see a raise up over the $2MM mark next season.
Jose Theodore - Twilight of his career, took less money to be given the starting reins.
Jonathan Bernier - Same situation as Quick (but without the impending huge raise).
Jacob Markstrom - Last year of an ELC, will see a raise likely over $3MM next year.
Michael Neuvirth - Last year of 2-year deal signed as 22 year old, will likely see a raise into the $3MM range at least.
Braden Holtby - Last year of an ELC.

When you factor out edge cases like that, and factor in the contracts that will be signed in the next 3 weeks, Harding's deal drops solidly into the late 30s, early 40s. For a backup as solid as he is, that's right where he should be. Furthermore, judging from the salary schedule, he's expected to not just be a backup next year and the season after.

Ultimately, the absolute worst you could argue he's overpaid by is $400k. That happens to be the difference between his actual salary and AAV besides. Even if he is overpaid by $400k, so what? That's 0.57% of the salary cap. For a team who is highly unlikely to touch that cap ceiling, who can honestly care about $400k?
A few of those are high estimates and a few are what you would expect with ELCs. Regardless, Minnesota is paying on the high end of a backup/platoon for a player who has proven to be nothing more for 3 years. If he can somehow, then it's a good deal and for better or worse Minnesota is going to find out if Josh Harding can be a full-time NHL starter.

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06-19-2012, 02:35 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by GopherState View Post
A few of those are high estimates and a few are what you would expect with ELCs. Regardless, Minnesota is paying on the high end of a backup/platoon for a player who has proven to be nothing more for 3 years. If he can somehow, then it's a good deal and for better or worse Minnesota is going to find out if Josh Harding can be a full-time NHL starter.
You're contradicting yourself.

Minnesota is paying on the high end of a backup/platoon for a player who has proven to be a high end backup/platoon option. He hasn't proven to be more than that, but if he had, he'd make more money.

Ultimately you're quibbling about an amount of cap space that's not even worth considering. It seems you're just trying to find something to complain about, rather than complaining about something meaningful.

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06-19-2012, 02:51 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by GopherState View Post
A few of those are high estimates and a few are what you would expect with ELCs. Regardless, Minnesota is paying on the high end of a backup/platoon for a player who has proven to be nothing more for 3 years. If he can somehow, then it's a good deal and for better or worse Minnesota is going to find out if Josh Harding can be a full-time NHL starter.
Try to name 25 goaltenders better than Harding. Name 3 (not on an ELC) that are better than him but make less.

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06-19-2012, 03:10 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by J22 View Post
Try to name 25 goaltenders better than Harding. Name 3 (not on an ELC) that are better than him but make less.
better in what way? i bet i can name 25 that are better at staying healthy.

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06-19-2012, 03:17 PM
  #83
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Excellent. Say goodbye to Backstrom after this year (or maybe at the deadline).

Now I just wanna wake up to seeing Lats re-signed.

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06-19-2012, 04:04 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Congrats Josh Harding on the new contract! ‪#greatgoalie‬ Still can't beat him glove side
http://twitter.com/SteveKampfer47/st...87902525743104

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06-19-2012, 04:37 PM
  #85
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I'm not sure how I feel about this.

On one hand, Harding is the most loyal goalie I've ever seen. He's like that dog that follows you all the way home and is just the friendliest thing. I like to see that rewarded.

On the other hand, he still needs to prove that he can play a substantial length of time without getting injured. Has he done something different or discovered the mystical source of his injuries lately? If not, I don't see how three years is warranted.

I can see the possible structure of our goalie situation pretty easily in the future with this however. 2012-2013 is evidently Backstroms last year with us provided he is not moved. I would love to see him moved for pretty much anything at this point, and I would like to see him moved before the draft if possible. However that means we either have to bring in a UFA veteran to either back up or split time with Harding, or we bring up Hackett now. I don't know if I like either of those options very much to be honest, but I like the idea of keeping Backstrom around to the end of his contract and losing him for nothing even less.

An obvious benefit to dumping Backstrom would be freeing up his cap space so we could sign a few extra defensemen in free agency, and if we somehow hit a home run and manage to land both Parise and Suter, Backstroms former cap space could be used to really beef up the blueline even more.

I think splitting time between Harding and someone else is probably the best option. I do not want to put a full season of work on Harding right away. An even split between him and another UFA goalie who would be capable of taking over starting duties if Harding becomes injured would be a good way for Harding to demonstrate that he can handle an increasing workload. Then the year after that we can bring Hackett up and Harding can have a year or two as a full starter with Hackett backing him up and getting 30 starts the first year and more the next.

Then we can see whats what in 3 years.

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06-19-2012, 05:24 PM
  #86
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I don't have a huge issue with the deal.

Yes, it's certainly not optimal to retain a guy like Harding who has struggled really grab hold of that starter spot; not to mention stay healthy. But if/when Backstrom were to move on in any scenario, the team's options in net look a hell of a lot better when Harding is in the mix. I think that was the ultimate goal and not have the organization be really stuck (like some teams out there) if their higher end goaltending prospects flop on the big stage with a more extended chance.

After this season if Hackett, and to a lesser extent Kuemper, show they've got the goods to play at the NHL level; great! The team is still set in goal and can focus their attention elsewhere. It's one thing to have holes in some vital spots in the organization. No need to add goaltending to the list from my perspective.

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06-19-2012, 05:28 PM
  #87
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This is a good situation to have...

I honestly worry that Keumper is the Wild's Justin Pogge.

I'd rather be banking on Bax going over to run his Finnish team after this season, Harding Hacket splitting the net, and then Keumper/Gustafsson fighting over the net in Houston.

My bet would be Gustafsson wins.

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06-19-2012, 05:37 PM
  #88
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My take...

http://www.stateofhockeynews.com/201...-deal-why.html

So now Harding is going to make more than Tomas Vokoun did last year and Vokoun is a proven #1 goaltender? Uh, ok... Sounds like Latendresse is coming back too, he more or less tweeted as much when he mentioned Harding's re-signing. Enjoy!

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06-19-2012, 05:44 PM
  #89
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TBH i would much rather have Theodore with that deal, nevermind the one he's on right now. Those goalies are out there. It's the team being loyal to Harding, not the other way around.

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06-19-2012, 05:44 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Harding signing does NOT mean Backstrom is in play. Spoke with Wild GM Chuck Fletcher, who says he wants strong 1-2 punch for next season
http://twitter.com/Real_ESPNLeBrun/s...13206627565568

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06-19-2012, 05:49 PM
  #91
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If Backstrom plays the whole season can we sell his rights to any team before he is a UFA even though he has some sort of a NTC.

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06-19-2012, 05:51 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rynryn View Post
TBH i would much rather have Theodore with that deal, nevermind the one he's on right now. Those goalies are out there. It's the team being loyal to Harding, not the other way around.
Actually I think it's both. The opinions that I've read from the non-Wild fans on the main board almost unanimously were that he would have gotten a lot more, and better odds on a #1 job, on the open market.

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That seems fair and is totally reasonable, but that's also precisely what I would say as GM even if I were looking to trade. Not a lot of trade partners on the goalie market, but also not a lot of goalies. If teams are interested in Backs, they will come to Fletch (not the other way around) and if he seems reluctant to deal, the return could be bigger.

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If Backstrom plays the whole season can we sell his rights to any team before he is a UFA even though he has some sort of a NTC.
No, and in fact it's quite possible we wouldn't be able to. Brad Richards refused to waive his NTC with Dallas after last season. (That said it was kind of a dick move on Richards' part, considering it would have helped his old team without putting any obligation on him to actually play or report wherever he was traded.)

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06-19-2012, 05:55 PM
  #93
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Bottom line? Harding could have gotten more money with another team.

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06-19-2012, 05:55 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LemaireisGOD View Post
http://www.stateofhockeynews.com/201...-deal-why.html

So now Harding is going to make more than Tomas Vokoun did last year and Vokoun is a proven #1 goaltender? Uh, ok... Sounds like Latendresse is coming back too, he more or less tweeted as much when he mentioned Harding's re-signing. Enjoy!
Not to mention that Tomas Vokoun was injured for almost half of last year and he is now signed as a backup for more than Harding makes now. But why on Earth would we want to point that out?

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06-19-2012, 05:58 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by llamapalooza View Post
Actually I think it's both. The opinions that I've read from the non-Wild fans on the main board almost unanimously were that he would have gotten a lot more, and better odds on a #1 job, on the open market.



That seems fair and is totally reasonable, but that's also precisely what I would say as GM even if I were looking to trade. Not a lot of trade partners on the goalie market, but also not a lot of goalies. If teams are interested in Backs, they will come to Fletch (not the other way around) and if he seems reluctant to deal, the return could be bigger.
hey, as long as fans from other teams are jelly it can't be all that bad. Like i said, i don't think it's a great deal but it surely isn't outrageous. Might even be tradeable.

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06-19-2012, 06:00 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by BuddyMcCormick View Post
Not to mention that Tomas Vokoun was injured for almost half of last year and he is now signed as a backup for more than Harding makes now. But why on Earth would we want to point that out?
So it's shocking that a former starter with some good years is making more as a backup than Harding is (as a backup)? Are you surprised by this or something? I'm confused.

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06-19-2012, 06:16 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by rynryn View Post
So it's shocking that a former starter with some good years is making more as a backup than Harding is (as a backup)? Are you surprised by this or something? I'm confused.
LiG commented on Vokoun making less last year than Harding's AAV...without mentioning that Vokoun this year is signed for more than Harding's AAV. That's where the post you're quoting is coming from.

Vokoun is a horrible example if people are trying to compare contracts. He got left out in the cold (which Harding commented about fearing) because of how the goalie market works. Also, saying he signed in Washington to be the "starter" is a bit misleading as they were more than ready to go with Neuvirth/Holtby for the whole year. The only reason Vokoun was signed was so that Holtby could get starts in the AHL.

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06-19-2012, 06:24 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by llamapalooza View Post
Actually I think it's both. The opinions that I've read from the non-Wild fans on the main board almost unanimously were that he would have gotten a lot more, and better odds on a #1 job, on the open market.
If Harding would have been able to find a job elsewhere, he would have made more. But that is a bit of an "if."

Columbus has struck out on Lindback (who they pursued heavily, but Nashville didn't want to trade him within the division) but doesn't seem to want to pay the price for Bernier or Schneider/Luongo. Toronto might have offered him a time-share with Reimer if they don't think Rynnas/Scrivens is ready. Either of those teams would have likely offered in the $2.5-$3.5MM range for 1-2 years.

However, beyond those two, there's not much out there for goalie needs. A few teams might still be looking for backups (Winnipeg, Detroit, NYR) where he likely would have made around $1.5MM AAV. There's even a risk that he would have started the season unemployed until the inevitable injury replacement like Theodore did for him.

Ultimately, I'd have to say it's a fair deal, if slightly generous on the Wild's behalf. Harding could have made more (maybe) but the Wild offered him security.

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06-19-2012, 06:52 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Victorious Secret View Post
Thats a joke right? He's been a very good goaltender when healthy. He put up solid numbers with both coaching systems and has had a pretty good Sv. Pct every year. I could care less against GAA, because goaltenders can't help the number of shots their facing. Other than 09-10, he averaged a lower Sv. Pct than the average in the NHL. And he was close, even though that was the Richards era team. He's a very good goaltender, don't know where you've seen otherwise.
Starting goaltender? Lengthy injury history, career-high in games played as a professional is 45(06-07). Starters play more than half the games, he hasn't his entire pro career. Sure he's had solid stretches where he's played at a high level, but he's inconsistent and can't stay healthy. At least he's getting better though, that 13-12-4 record is the first time in his NHL career he can say he played above .500(the other 3 seasons he was a back-up we were a combined 25 games above .500 and Harding was 13 games below).

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It was already made clear that Hackett needed more AHL seasoning. We're not going to rush this kid.
I disagree he does. Solid numbers in his 12 appearances with the Wild last season, supplanted a quality AHL goaltender(Khudobin, who could be Boston's back-up this year) his rookie pro year and went on a lengthy run. Backstrom's been healthier and has shouldered a larger workload his entire career than Harding. I'd rather Backstrom be there with Hackett than Harding, and for that to happen we should've cut ties with Harding now.

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Originally Posted by Rabid Husky View Post
Good transition deal to Hackett if Harding proves he isn't up to the workload/can't stay healthy/doesn't perform. It's also good for him because if he plays well he can get a larger number deal either with the Wild or elsewhere after this one.
Not really because if Harding can't handle it that's a helluva lot of pressure for Matt Hackett in 13-14.

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Originally Posted by Engebretson View Post
Meh, I'd probably feel more comfortable rolling out Backs/Hards over the course of a season than Hards/random vet. Personally, I'd be shocked if we traded Backs for anything less than GMCF getting his socks knocked off. Who knows though, it could happen.
Can't really upgrade from Backstrom given we need a spot for both Hackett and Harding next season now.

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06-19-2012, 07:51 PM
  #100
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I'd have to think Minnesota has to add a good bit to get Schenn for Backstrom.
How is that? Toronto can't seem to get rid of this kid fast enough. He is offered in every trade proposal, he fell down the depth chart last season, and lots of talk about him not progressing as hoped.

Personally, I have not interest in Schenn.

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