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Old
06-18-2012, 05:11 PM
  #76
digdug41982
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Originally Posted by MagicSlap View Post
Yea, and who is your #3? What is your second pairing without Hammer?
Oduya-Leddy or Oduya-Montador, hahahaha

Don't forget, with the group, Carkner has a good couple good games and Q is playing him on the 2nd pairing for awhile too.

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Old
06-18-2012, 05:40 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
I'd rather give it to them off the glass in the neutral zone than right on the tape in our own zone.
Hammer had more giveaways than Oduya in less games...so not only does Hammer just ice the puck half the time, he gives it away as well..more than Oduya does.

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06-19-2012, 01:50 AM
  #78
Bubba88
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Oduya - Leddy is not worse than what other teams have as 2nd pairing...

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06-19-2012, 02:17 AM
  #79
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Oduya - Leddy is not worse than what other teams have as 2nd pairing...
Yea, bottom feeding teams. That is a seriously bad second pairing heading into next year.

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Old
06-19-2012, 04:29 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
Oduya - Leddy is not worse than what other teams have as 2nd pairing...
You can't be serious.

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Old
06-19-2012, 04:37 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
Oduya - Leddy is not worse than what other teams have as 2nd pairing...
Did you watch the playoffs? These two should not be paired together again.

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06-19-2012, 06:44 AM
  #82
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not many teams have a better 2nd & 3rd line than the Hawks have, no matter what the combination is

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Old
06-19-2012, 08:11 AM
  #83
digdug41982
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Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
not many teams have a better 2nd & 3rd line than the Hawks have, no matter what the combination is
Teams in what league? We don't even have a 2nd line center. That puts us in the middle of the pack on its own.

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Old
06-19-2012, 08:30 AM
  #84
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Oduya and Leddy should never be paired together BUT Q loves it.

Keith/Seabrook
Oduya/ Hammer
Leddy /Montador

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Old
06-19-2012, 10:11 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
Oduya - Leddy is not worse than what other teams have as 2nd pairing...
It's worse than some teams, but not many.

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Old
06-19-2012, 10:27 AM
  #86
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Man I want some of what Bubba and Hawk are drinkin

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Old
06-19-2012, 10:43 AM
  #87
digdug41982
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Originally Posted by MagicSlap View Post
Man I want some of what Bubba and Hawk are drinkin
Do you mean drinking or main lining into their forehead?

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Old
06-19-2012, 02:21 PM
  #88
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Carkner is the type of D man the Hawks need in the 3rd pairing. If Lehner came in return and a draft pick, I could be swayed to go that route. Then the Hawks could possibly even move up and get one of these highly regarded D men in the draft. Hjallmarsson looked great during the Cup, but hasn't lived up to his contract since.

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Old
06-19-2012, 02:25 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by giza View Post
Carkner is the type of D man the Hawks need in the 3rd pairing. If Lehner came in return and a draft pick, I could be swayed to go that route. Then the Hawks could possibly even move up and get one of these highly regarded D men in the draft. Hjallmarsson looked great during the Cup, but hasn't lived up to his contract since.
I like Carkner if Montador's career is over due to concussions. I guess he could take Olsen's place as well.

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Old
06-19-2012, 03:10 PM
  #90
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2 weak, smaller, not physical, horrible in their own zone D-men are just as good as any other 2nd pairing in the NHL?

Right, here are teams 2nd pairings, you tell me which ones they better then.

ANA - Visnovsky / Lydman
BOS - Boychuk / Andrew Ference,
BUF - Leopold / Regehr
CAL - Giordano / Hannan
CAR - Allen / Harrison
COL - Hunwick / Johnson
CBJ - Nikitin / Johnson
DAL - Daley / Souray
DET - Kronwall / Stuart
EDM - Sutton / Petry
FLA - Kulikov / Weaver
LAK - Mitchell / Voynov
MIN - Foster / Spurgeon
MON - Markov / Campoli
NSH - Klein / Josi
NJD - Salvador / Zidlicky
NYI - Hamonic / MacDonald
NYR - Del Zotto / Staal
OTT - Cowen / Gonchar
PHI - Coburn / Grossman
PHO - Ekman-Larsson / Klesla
PIT - Martin / Letang
SAN - Murray / Burns
STL - Shattenkirk / Polak
TAM - Clark / Lee
TOR - Liles / Schenn
VAN - Hamhuis / Bieksa
WAS - Alzner / Carlson
WIN - Stuart / Bogosian

I can find about 7

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Old
06-19-2012, 03:44 PM
  #91
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I count 10 without looking any further. That 2nd pair in whatever combination is good enough to win the Cup and not really worse than what other teams have. I like you DET pair because non of those 2 guys will be on that spot next year

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Old
06-19-2012, 04:06 PM
  #92
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wellbefore you say Hammer has not lived upto his contract ---justify it with proof...


GO look up all D-men in the NHl at his Cap hit ..Compare the +/- numbers since his last contract started among comparably paid players... IF he ranges BELOW the average in +/- THEN you have sted coorrectly--but if he is ABOVE the average in +/- over this period for this category of comparably paid players then he has lived up to the contract expectation (arguably how much above the average might also sway the evaluation--for is he is WAY ABOVE THE AVERAGE then clearly you assertion is GROSSLY MISTAKEN---if he is close to merely average then i guess you could still say he did not meet expectaion for money paid since you expected way above the average ...

You could further refine the analysis by also comparing the comparably paid d-men in their PK work a s whether they were far above or far below average.



Finally to say he did not earn his pay --could you not say the same for Patrick Kane and his huge regression on points last season? YET you are willing to pick on Hammer and his far less expensive cost?

Also what about our other high paid d-men (Keith and Seabrook) who do they rank for comparably paid d-men --way above or below the average for the +/- stats returned and for Pk effectiveness?

We need proper proofs before blanket assertions can be accepted as truth,,,

On the other hand even kindergartners need no proof to realize KANE was disinterested from mid Nov through to April 1st ...You just had to watch..

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Old
06-19-2012, 08:28 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
I count 10 without looking any further. That 2nd pair in whatever combination is good enough to win the Cup and not really worse than what other teams have. I like you DET pair because non of those 2 guys will be on that spot next year
oh, well if you count 10 then it's obviously good! It's not like 14 of those teams won't miss the playoffs lol.

Leddy-Oduya will not win a Stanley Cup.

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06-19-2012, 10:14 PM
  #94
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oh, well if you count 10 then it's obviously good! It's not like 14 of those teams won't miss the playoffs lol.

Leddy-Oduya will not win a Stanley Cup.
Keith - Leddy
Seabrook - Oduya

Would.

And to sir Physco, half of the guys you listed are #1 pairings or UFAs for their current team.

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06-19-2012, 11:01 PM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
Keith - Leddy
Seabrook - Oduya

Would.

And to sir Physco, half of the guys you listed are #1 pairings or UFAs for their current team.
No, That is still not a Stanley Cup top 4

Keith-Seabrook is a Cup top 2, but it doesn't matter if the bottom 4 is weak. They aren't going to play 60 minutes a night.

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Old
06-19-2012, 11:04 PM
  #96
Sir Psycho T
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
Keith - Leddy
Seabrook - Oduya

Would.

And to sir Physco, half of the guys you listed are #1 pairings or UFAs for their current team.
Pairing Oduya and Leddy with other people doesn't change the fact that they are horrible in their own end. The defensive core the Hawks have now isn't good enough to win a Cup, period.

If you check the ice time and team line-ups everyone I listed was a 2nd pairing. Who cares if their FA, they mix between teams that aren't the Hawks and the Hawks will still have a bottom 3rd #2 pairing in the NHL.

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Old
06-19-2012, 11:36 PM
  #97
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The defensive corps we have now is good enough if we had even remotely competent goaltending, but we don't.

Unfortunately with the chumps we have between the pipes we are going to need to build a team that never gives up ANY chances at all.

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Old
06-19-2012, 11:53 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Crazy_Ike View Post
The defensive corps we have now is good enough if we had even remotely competent goaltending, but we don't.

Unfortunately with the chumps we have between the pipes we are going to need to build a team that never gives up ANY chances at all.
Ding Ding Ding!!

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Old
06-20-2012, 12:25 AM
  #99
Sir Psycho T
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Originally Posted by Crazy_Ike View Post
The defensive corps we have now is good enough if we had even remotely competent goaltending, but we don't.

Unfortunately with the chumps we have between the pipes we are going to need to build a team that never gives up ANY chances at all.
Not completely, if our D stays the same of a bunch of small, weak, bad defensive zone players, a better goalie will help but won't solve the problems of bad turnovers, no shot blocking and forwards camping out in front of our net all game long.

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06-20-2012, 01:32 AM
  #100
Rexy
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Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
Not completely, if our D stays the same of a bunch of small, weak, bad defensive zone players, a better goalie will help but won't solve the problems of bad turnovers, no shot blocking and forwards camping out in front of our net all game long.
This.

You can't blame just goaltending, just like you can't blame only the defense.

Did Crawford give up weak goals this season? Yes

Did the defense give him adequate help? Not at all.

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